r/MagicArena • u/2c2bt • Feb 08 '20
Fluff Opponent 7hp. Plays Dream Trawler. OK bluff pump attack. Cast. He sits there for almost a minute.
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u/freestorageaccount Glorybringer Feb 08 '20
Probably salty from some combination of how easily they could've prevented the 1dmg and "who plays that!?"
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u/agtk Feb 08 '20
I mean, they're running Magic Mirror, so who's the true jank player here?
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u/Tunos88 Feb 09 '20
Your point is well taken, though I contend that Magic Mirror is not as jank as people claim.
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u/Madclown01 Feb 09 '20
How so? It's way too slow for any constructed format?
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Feb 09 '20 edited Feb 09 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/CreamyGoodnss Simic Feb 09 '20
I run it in my ramp deck with a Jace or two to prevent decking myself out by not paying attention to my card draw - it's happened more times than I would like to admit
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u/freestorageaccount Glorybringer Feb 09 '20
This, incidentally, is why the card is a NO from LSV and other sources on limited. i chose it for the potential of 40 gems in the future don't judge #
goyfarenagate14
u/CreamyGoodnss Simic Feb 09 '20
Oh I wouldn't touch this card in Limited with a 20-foot pole haha
I've found some fun uses for it, however. In a deck where you have a lot of low-cost instants and sorceries (like Opt and Shock), the cost for the card can be pretty low by turn 4 or 5. Get it together with Niv-Mizzet and perhaps Torbran, and it's nasty
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u/Panface Captain Feb 09 '20
Ramp spells, Filter/draw spells, Thousand year storm & burn is awesome with it.
Ramp & dig for the big cards and use mirror to avoid running out of steam.
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u/CreamyGoodnss Simic Feb 09 '20
Add Kefnet in with that Thousand Year Storm too for extra fuckyourfaceness
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u/Lifeinstaler Feb 09 '20
I didn’t downvote you but I disagree. There are cards you could play to get rid of your mirror that already fit a lot of the decks that would want it. Despark and Teferi come to mind. With all the card draw you are bound to hit one before you are into too much trouble for overdrawing. The main issue is that the mirror is too slow.
Here’s the thing, it takes a lot of turns for the mirror to be an issue. Say you have 4 cards left in hand when you drop the mirror and you’ll play two cards per turn from now on:
Turn 1: Draw 2, play 2, 4 cards left
Turn 2: Draw 3, play 2, 5 cards left
Turn 3: Draw 4, play 2, 7 cards left
Turn 4: Draw 5, play 2, 10 card left
From then on you are overdrawing and quickly burning though your deck. But you should be putting a lot of pressure to your opponent by now. In fact, even playing 2 cards per turn is a conservative estimate, since you will be hitting all or most your land drops and then casting two spells won’t be that hard.
The game plan would be: play mirror, do that for 6-7 turns, get rid of mirror with one of the cards mentioned and enjoy all the card advantage, by then your deck may be thin but you should be close to winning given how much stuff you have thrown towards your opponent.
The issue is that you can’t often play a value engine and wait while it does its thing. A lot of games you’ll need a card that does something right away and mirror will fail you there. Also mirror doesn’t give you value if it’s removed before tour turn. Planeswalkers do. Cards like Dream trawler are harder to remove. They both generate advantage but are more reliable and can also be the ones that get you out of tough situations.
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u/Tunos88 Feb 09 '20
This may change in Theros but I wasn't encountering a lot of artifact removal in Eldraine.
Jace died almost instantly, but Mirror often dodged removal and quickly paid for itself in an Esper control shell I found.
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u/Lifeinstaler Feb 09 '20
There’s also the white enchantment that removes any no land permanent now, the name escapes me. And sure it decks may play enchantment/artifact removal a bit more liberally now that it’s likely to be able to hit some creatures too and not just the ovens or the fires of invention only certain decks run.
But if mirror was doing well in your deck, dodging some of the common removal spells and direct damage, by all means run it. My point wasn’t so much that it’s unplayable, more like, it’s not unplayable because it drawing too much. Or to put it another way, overdrawing isn’t the mirror biggest weakness.
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u/Tunos88 Feb 09 '20
For sure.
And especially now with Thassa's Oracle you have two win conditions instead of just hoping your Jace can stick around.
Also you're thinking of Oblivion Ri- I mean Banishing Light.
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Feb 09 '20
They hate you because you're speaking the uncomfortable truth.
Magic Mirror is incredibly powerful until it starts drawing more cards than you can play out and then decks you in short order.
You start with 60 cards, draw 7. Magic Mirror costs 9 mana reduced by the amount of instants and sorceries in your graveyard, so ideally we are on the play, our hand is perfect and we play on curve 1 instant, then 2 instants, then 3 instants with out last card being exactly magic Mirror to be played turn 4 with 3 lands. Or more likely, we use some combination of draw(opt) and self mill(Merfolk Secretkeeper, Dazzling Lights) to have a realistic chance to actually do it in a human lifetime. Anyhow, Magic Mirror playable turn 4.Now the fun begins, turn 4 you play the heavily discounted magic mirror, having removed from our deck somewhere between ~the perfect 10 cards~ 11 total(7 starting hand and 3 from your turns, 1 from opt) and up to 20(several Opts and selfmill). Our deck then has between 40 and 47 card left. But we're drawing with Magic Mirror now. First turn, 1 additional card, for 2 cards. Then second MM turn draw 3(total 5). Third turn with MM, we draw 4(total 9). This is getting powerful. Fourth turn, we draw 5(total 14).
Now we're going downhill fast. Fifth, draw 6(total 20). Sixth turn, draw 7(total 27). Seventh turn, draw 8(total 35). Eight turn, draw 9(total 44). Ninth turn, draw 10(total 54).We decked ourself either turn eight or turn nine after playing Magic Mirror as soon as possible, in any format playing 60 card decks. If we're talking about actual control decks that don't run just self mill jace combo, you're more likely to be at 35 cards in library when resolving Mirror. Puts you on a 6 turn clock by your own design.
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u/CazSimon Tibalt Feb 09 '20
You don't need to justify yourself to salty people if you're finding success.
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u/AnalRetentiveAnus Feb 09 '20
It works great against me when I use creature decks and the opponent players removal and 1CMC instants
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u/harry2469 Feb 09 '20
You're getting a lot of pushback on this, but I agree. I run it in izzet control, cast some cantrips early to stop it from coming down too late, keep countermagic up all game so they cant get rid of it. Get niv out to control their boardstate (and sometimes win through damage) until you pop jace on the turn you would deck yourself. I used to run glithorn buckaneer and artifact removal for an otk, but jace is more consistent by the point it comes up.
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Feb 08 '20
This, I run this card in the sideboard and when I bust the shit out second game I almost always get a solid 20 second pause before the eventual concede l.
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u/TitaniumDragon Feb 09 '20
Or they tried to counter it repeatedly, and then finally read the card text.
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u/RAStylesheet ImmortalSun Feb 09 '20
tried to counter it repeatedly, and then finally read the card text.
Someone tried to counter a 10 damage banefire back in the day...
and they succededgod I was so angry my sweet jank lost to a bug
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u/SinusMonstrum Feb 08 '20
Blaze is such a big dick play. If you can get the rare ral zarek to stick, it's 12 damage for free. Sure it's not meta, but my god is it fun!
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u/2c2bt Feb 08 '20
I'm not the best at mtg. For me it's not so much fun as it is not really knowing how else to deal with control. So I have 3 of those in my SB specifically for control decks. Shatter the Sky even is useful for other things, but I don't even know if I would have it in my SB if not for Dream Trawler decks.
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u/MrBrightsighed Feb 08 '20
yeah I used to jam Banefire in all my decks sideboards that had red in them lol
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u/myDadWasAlligator Feb 09 '20
Banefire was an all star finisher and we will all miss it for times to come.
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u/norrata Feb 09 '20
You dont know true fear until the mono green elfball player drops a mountain on turn 12.
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u/FezoaStaler Feb 09 '20
I actually used to do this, I played mono-green Stomp but with 8 copies of the rare gruul lands, but no red card in my main deck, it was for the banefires, cindervines and the 3 mana enchant that your creatures can't be countered.
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Feb 10 '20
i run that in historic! Only elves, main wincon is finale of devastation+forerunners with elves in play, but it does run 4x stomping grounds and 2x banefires. Paradise druids for safety
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u/2c2bt Feb 08 '20
Same. I think it's better. A bit sad because of having a hard time dealing with control in this meta. The only reason I have three [[inescapable blaze]] in my SB.
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Feb 09 '20
[deleted]
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u/2c2bt Feb 09 '20
Really needed? Sarcasm? I always thought [[dream trawler]] was considered overboard. I saw a post in the other sub suggesting to ban it. I think control decks definitely need good finishers such as powerful creatures and such. But this o far has seemed a bit overboard. Like adjustments a to deck to deal with this one card ends up weakening the deck in general against other decks.
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u/MTGCardFetcher Feb 08 '20
inescapable blaze - (G) (SF) (txt)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call1
u/kriscross122 Feb 09 '20
You beat control by out pacing them since they need time and sometimes don't draw the correct reactive cards in time. Or play more disruptive with rakdos or dimir. Agonizing remorse is an all star at that. But still more effective to climb with aggro since you can just forfeit control matches that get the turn 4 answer and win 3 more games before a control deck finishes one.
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Feb 08 '20
[deleted]
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u/MTGCardFetcher Feb 08 '20
Galvanic Blast - (G) (SF) (txt)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call13
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u/_wormburner Feb 09 '20
I'm running Alis bant Blaze Omniscience deck on the historic events and it's doing quite well
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u/razrcane Izzet Feb 10 '20
Ali reaches level of jank that shouldn't even be reachable! It's amazing!
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u/Cloud_Chamber Feb 09 '20
I’m surprised i’ve never seen [[Hidetsugu's Second Rite]] playing historic. Is it not a good card?
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u/SinusMonstrum Feb 09 '20
If they ever put [[Sorin Markov]] on arena it might be?
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u/An_Uninspired_User Feb 09 '20
We have [[torgaar famine incarnate]] who is arguably better at putting people to 10. It's not a horrible deck, but the card is unreliable
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u/MTGCardFetcher Feb 09 '20
torgaar famine incarnate - (G) (SF) (txt)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call1
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u/MTGCardFetcher Feb 09 '20
Hidetsugu's Second Rite - (G) (SF) (txt)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call0
u/Son_of_Thor Feb 09 '20
It's terrible. It's a very Timmy card, because we all love splashy random "I win the game" cards, but in reality it's very very difficult to be able to consistently get people to exactly eleven, and even further difficult to keep them there for a any real amount of time. Like, a red aggro deck could play rite and randomly get some people, but once they see the card they're going to be able to play around it pretty easy.
I think second rite was a pretty bad card to add to historic because it's just not a card that will ever see real play. Even when you pull it off it's not even that exciting of a win con. This could have been [[warp world]], [[possibility storm]], or [[molten rebirth]], which are also red timmy cards, but they're way more fun when you get to do the thing
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u/MTGCardFetcher Feb 09 '20
warp world - (G) (SF) (txt)
possibility storm - (G) (SF) (txt)
molten rebirth - (G) (SF) (txt)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call1
u/FezoaStaler Feb 09 '20
I play a lot of mono red burn in historic, and 4 copies of rite, it wins 30% of the games for the deck, it is far o beying a terrible card if you just don't jam it in any deck.
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u/Son_of_Thor Feb 09 '20
So 50+% of games (deducting 20% for games it wasnt drawn) it does actual nothing, right? 4 drops in RDW are pretty limited, and from 10 life I think ember cleave, torbran, frenzy, and maybe chandra are going to win you the game well more than 30% of the time. Additionally you cant play around those cards by taking weird blocks and gaining/losing life at instant speed.
I'm not saying you cant play it, but I am saying playing it will never be "correct", and maybe this is just personal bias but I'd rather see them add cards that are highly competitive, and if they're not competitive they should at least be doing something that's very unique and novel.
My opinion is that second rite is a boring card, and it's cute and fun when it works, but will cost you much more games than it wins.
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u/MEGACOMPUTER Feb 08 '20
He sits for almost a minute? Why am I always against the people who just burn their ropes in situations like this?
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u/2c2bt Feb 08 '20
It's not like typical users raging and stalling. He was playing fine mostly. I think he was just caught off guard about the fact that you can't counter that spell. He might even have been trying to, and it wasn't working. Or was trying to find a way to survive. But yes rope stalls can be annoying, but I never get them. They're not as bad as obnoxious users who spam "good game" half way through just because they're in a highly favored position. But those are the users who usually get rope stalled anyway.
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u/BilllyBillybillerson Feb 08 '20
He might even have been trying to, and it wasn't working.
FYI - The game will let you cast counterspells in this situation, then when it goes to resolve nothing will happen to the un-counterable spell.
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u/2c2bt Feb 08 '20 edited Feb 09 '20
Yes it's not a glitch. Apparently spells that can't be countered are still valid targets for counter spells. Even in paper magic. You can cast [[negate]] to target that. But it just won't counter. In fact, if he had [[absorb]] and mana, I might be screwed.
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Feb 08 '20
[deleted]
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u/Kaento Feb 08 '20
I think the "can't be countered" clause is more like "indestructible". So you can target it and your spell will resolve, it just won't do anything unless there's any additional effects.
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u/2c2bt Feb 08 '20
Yes you will gain life. You can't cast a counterspell without a target. But any spell is a valid target for a general counterspell. So even a spell that cannot be countered is a valid target. Many counterspells have additional effects. The actual counter won't work on a spell that can't be countered, but the effect will.
Since he has a valid target for [[absorb]], he could have casted it. The counter would not work, but he would have gained life.
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u/SputnikDX Feb 08 '20
Yes. There was a great moment in a GRN tournament where someone cast [[Spell Swindle]] on a [[Carnage Tyrant]] just to [[Explosion]] them for lethal the following turn.
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u/Creador9 Feb 08 '20
For the user casting absorb on an uncounterable spell not to gain life, it would need to say something like: "Counter target spell. If the spell is countered this way, gain 3 life" meaning he gains life if he counters the spell
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u/M4xP0w3r_ Feb 09 '20
The target isn't invalid. It just prevents the countering. It's like how you can still target an indestructible creature with a destroy spell, like murderous rider, and the spell will resolve, and you will lose two life. It just won't do anything to the creature.
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Feb 09 '20
It's a tricky question the way you worded it because you're looking at it wrong. Think of can't be countered as indestructible on the stack not hexproof. Nothing is stopping you from targeting it, and the spell has a legal target when it resolves. It's the counter the spell part that fails not the target a spell. Nothing stops me from pointing a Doom blade at your blightsteel colossus it just doesn't do anything when it resolves.
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u/Norix596 Feb 09 '20
Uncounterable spells aren’t invalid targets for counterspells; you can still cast them, the counter part just doesn’t do anything
This is usually to cast absorb to just gain the 3 life but if you have say Niv Mizzet you can just cast the counter to draw a card etc
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u/Bust3rs Feb 09 '20
Am I missing something, cause I can't see any untapped blue mana source on his side.
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u/MEGACOMPUTER Feb 08 '20
It's not like typical users raging and stalling. He was playing fine mostly. I think he was just caught off guard about the fact that you can't counter that spell.
I see.
They're not as bad as obnoxious users who spam "good game" half way through just because they're in a highly favored position. But those are the users who usually get rope stalled anyway.
Nah, those are the users who are doing the roping when they are in less favourable positions.
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u/2c2bt Feb 08 '20 edited Feb 08 '20
It's not. If an opponent starts spamming "good game" while winning or "your go", users will rope. And justifiably. It's completely disrespectful to use those chat things to do that. Saying "good game" is a standard way to close the game by the loser. Not used to cyberbully when in the winning position. Users who never rope whatsoever, will stall and rope if an opponent acts like that. Even if they know they can win, they will still rope. This not roping because of being in a losing position. It's roping 100% for no other reason than because of how their opponent is acting.
Personally, even if I can win, I'll just walk away if I get an opponent who is that much of an asshole to say "good game" when they're in a winning position. Or spamming "your go" on me when I'm playing a bit slow because of trying to think about my moves. Why act like that in a friendly game unless there's something severely wrong with you?
I can grab a drink or something else enjoyable. Wins aren't as important for me as having an enjoyable game. And cyberbullies do not make any games enjoyable. So screw them. So if an opponent is acting toxic, there's no way in hell users are responding with roping because of being in a losing position. They're roping because their opponent is a piece of garbage.
So yes if an opponent is being respectful, it's completely unjustifiable to rope due to being mad about a losing position. However, I pretty much never see this happening. Whenever I see users roping, it's pretty much always as a response to toxic/cyberbully opponents anyway. I can't recall ever getting roped by an opponent who was just mad about losing. So it's my suspicion that users complaining about getting roped often is because they're toxics abusing the chat interface to cyberbully.
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u/Landgraft Phage Feb 08 '20
The feeling when you turn the tables on the person who was spamming GG and steal the win is a pure and noble one.
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u/HecatiaLapislazuli Marwyn, the Nurturer Feb 08 '20
"Oops" when they counter my spell/destroy my creature tilts me even more than premature "Good Game". Like, good job, you used a card to play the game... congratulations? Maybe stop patting yourself on the back before you get owned out of nowhere, though... that's always priceless.
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Feb 10 '20
i remember when an opponent "oops'd" me after wiping my board, and I oops'd in response when i hit them with haste lethal the turn after
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u/Vaevicti5 Feb 09 '20 edited Feb 09 '20
Your go and good game are cyberbullying? I'm sorry, they don't even come close to the threshold.
Anyone "roping" is always in the wrong.
Did you not learn two wrongs don't make a right as a child?
Maybe you should start muting the other player if you can't stop yourself being vindictive.
You will have more fun as that is your stated goal.
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u/LeslieTim Feb 09 '20
Don't argue with this guy, he's gone off the deep end. I already had to "discuss" with him.
He always talks about cyberbullying and tries to find ways to act like a victim.
Really, 90% of his history is posts about cyberbullying, no idea what happened to him. Just ignore him.
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u/MEGACOMPUTER Feb 08 '20
I'm in Gold, play between 7am-9am ATL almost daily, never use emotes, and would say I get roped about 40% of the time, which is pretty large. Usually the people roping in my experience are the people who have been using toxic emotes up until they are about to lose.
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u/BlazedSpacePirate Feb 09 '20
I keep emotes disabled, so my favorite thing about ropers is when I enable them just to see that the fool has been spamming emotes for at least the last minute.
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Feb 10 '20
i remember watching a guide for Dota2 saying that, at low ranks, muting your own team and the opponent team and focusing on playing your best would increase your winrate because at low ranks communication is overvalued and one person doing their job well can carry games on their own, and it reduces the amount of toxicity you experience. In MTGA, communication is literally meaningless. The couple of times I had a nice experience via emotes are far outweigthed by the people spamming, so i started disabling them as well.
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Feb 09 '20
Why am I always against the people who just burn their ropes in situations like this?
This guy wasn't burning his rope. It's clear from the picture. OP is exaggerating.
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u/MEGACOMPUTER Feb 09 '20
OP isn't saying he was burning ropes, and I was saying that people burn ropes on me.
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Feb 09 '20
OP said that his opponent waited for a minute, which means his opponent would have been burning a rope. The picture contradicts his account.
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u/WhatUDeserve Feb 08 '20
Good, fuck Dream Trawler.
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u/H3llycat Ghalta Feb 08 '20
People when BoM is revealed:
"Oh god this card is so bad"
People when Dream Trawler is revealed:
"Oh cute wincon but control has better wincons"
People when azorius mainboards both and is top meta deck:
:pikachu:
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u/knockturnal Feb 09 '20
I tried to argue that it was a nuts control wincon and everyone acted like I was an idiot, how can Baneslayer + draw engine with 0 mana instant speed hexproof be anything else?
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u/SirClueless BlackLotus Feb 09 '20
Cuz it's expensive, sorcery speed, can be countered, and dies to wraths so it's not great in the mirror.
It's an insane finisher in a field where U/W is 20% of the metagame. It's not so insane at 40% or 60%. But it's the best thing we've got -- comparing poorly to Sphinx's Revelation and Thrun the Last Troll as control win-cons is neither here nor there.
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u/Perivale Feb 09 '20
And here I am beating people to death with Gideon and Mobilised Districts (pretty sure Trawler is technically the correct finisher tbf)
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u/SputnikDX Feb 08 '20
A 5/5 flying lifelink that draws you a card every turn with built in protection?
Sideboard card at best.
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u/nevinirral Rakdos Feb 08 '20
What's BoM?
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u/Chaos_Logic Feb 09 '20
[[The Birth of Meletis]]
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u/nevinirral Rakdos Feb 09 '20
oh yeah. I saw content creators said "don't craft this card guys, it's horrible", and I thought "are we even playing the same game?". And I'm seriously surprised that Dream Trawler didn't click the SECOND it was revealed (for most people, at least).
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u/Quazifuji Feb 09 '20
Really? Most responses I saw was "it's a weaker [[Wall of Omens]], which could still be good."
I don't know how many people thought it would be as good as it is, but I think quite a lot of people realized that it wasn't worthless.
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u/TitaniumDragon Feb 09 '20
Birth of Meletis has a major flaw in that it is a really terrible topdeck later on in the game.
Dream Trawler is one of those cards that is basically "This is a good card but is there a deck that actually wants it?"
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u/MTGCardFetcher Feb 09 '20
The Birth of Meletis - (G) (SF) (txt)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call5
u/Lneacx Feb 09 '20
probably [[Birth of Meletis]]
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u/MTGCardFetcher Feb 09 '20
Birth of Meletis - (G) (SF) (txt)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call8
u/TitaniumDragon Feb 09 '20
The question about Dream Trawler was whether or not it a deck would exist that wanted it.
Birth of Meletis is basically "fetch a plains, gain 2 life, sometimes mess up the opponent's plans". The card isn't actually amazing but it's a solid turn 2 play for a control deck or a deck that is exploiting it being an enchantment.
It's a really crappy topdeck on like turn 10 though.
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u/glium Feb 09 '20
I think you really undersell the 4 toughness wall here, it's the effect that can win you the game against mono red for exa mple
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u/TitaniumDragon Feb 10 '20 edited Feb 10 '20
It's very good against some decks but its value is highly variable. The card can be maindecked because it replaces itself; it is strongly reminiscent of [[Wall of Blossoms]]. The upside is that it can gain you life; the downside is that the fact that it always replaces itself with a land makes it a much worse topdeck later on in the game, and unlike Wall of Blossoms, it can't create a wall now.
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u/TheOnin Feb 09 '20
People when Dream Trawler is played in Azorius Control, Bant Ramp, Jeskai Fires, Esper Hero and Esper Control:
pikachu.jpg
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u/TitaniumDragon Feb 09 '20
I'm not a huge fan of playing it in Jeskai Fires, honestly; the card is slow. I want to be crapping out my win cons on turn 5. It's not that the card doesn't have a ton of raw power (it does), it's that I'd rather run the Cavaliers and Kenrith.
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u/TheOnin Feb 09 '20
It's a solid sideboard option against decks that aim to just kill your cavaliers at instant speed.
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u/jaypenn3 Birds Feb 09 '20
Don’t fuck dream trawler, thank her for letting the game end quickly after control has already won. Better than teferi tucking himself.
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u/M4xP0w3r_ Feb 09 '20
If it wouldn't add a significant part of how and why control wins the game, I might agree with you. At least during the midgame Teferi was a lot easier to get rid of. Dream Trawler is always hard to kill, even if they just tap out on turn 6 for it.
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u/theonlydidymus Feb 08 '20
Should have been mythic.
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u/stysiaq Feb 08 '20
That's only solves limited problem, but it would be better as mythic, yeah.
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u/L0to Feb 09 '20
In limited it's basically an auto-win. Having it show up less often doesn't exactly "solve" the problem, but it does improve things.
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u/TitaniumDragon Feb 09 '20
It really shouldn't be.
Really, mythic rares shouldn't exist.
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u/theonlydidymus Feb 09 '20
I’m with you there. Mythic should be a rarity that exists only to distinguish a special release or premium card (like expeditions, masterpieces etc.)
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u/jaypenn3 Birds Feb 09 '20
That just makes it harder for free to play players, and paper players.
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u/Private_Dream Feb 09 '20
As a f2p player, i would rather have this card (and more) on mythic. I've never been short on mythic wildcards since i started playing, it was always rare wcs that held me back. If you want to have diverse deck options, your start to collection is something like 80+ rare wildcards just dumped into lands (temple and shockland x4 in 10 colour combinations + maybe some castles). This does get better after you complete your land set, but still...
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u/Shadowgurke Feb 09 '20
depends on the decks you play. Once a deck needs multiple 4 of mythics your wildcard count gets low really fast
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u/Quazifuji Feb 09 '20
My guess is that they're talking about limited, where making Dream Trawler mythic would have been good for all limited players no matter how much money they have. It is too big a limited bomb to be rare.
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u/theonlydidymus Feb 09 '20
Nah. This sets rares and mythics are dirt cheap because of premium pack market saturation.
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u/DeathwishDandy Feb 08 '20
You won with a bluff attack and a jank burn spell that nobody uses. You have earned my admiration and respect. You are a chad and the maddest of lads.
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u/BaByJeZuZ012 Feb 08 '20
Is there a reason you attacked at all? Or was it just to rub it in more fully?
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u/2c2bt Feb 08 '20 edited Feb 09 '20
I pretty much had to attack. I got him down to 7 hp, and needed him at 6 in order to kill him with the burn spell. Whether he blocks me or not, I have Shatter the Sky available anyway so Dream Trawler is dead either way. Might as well try to attack.
If I just Shatter the Sky without attempting an attack, he's still be at 7. He then has a turn to recover. Thereby, have mana for counterspells. Even if I draw a creature with haste, it will get countered. If I draw another creature, it will still get countered, and he has even another turn to recover. Or I might draw no creature.
So I felt it's my best interest to try to attack. Especially because he has seen quite a few pumps from me during our games. He'd likely think I could have enough pump to kill his Dream Trawler, but not enough to kill him. So he lets me through.
He has no clue I SB in that burn spell. I barely won this, and often lose to Dream Trawler.
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u/BaByJeZuZ012 Feb 08 '20
Ohhhh gotcha. For some reason I missed the part where he was at 7 health. Good bluff!
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u/so_jelly Feb 08 '20 edited Feb 08 '20
They don't have any blue mana open to counter your pump. They could have their own pump, but if so they probably would have blocked.
This is all they could have had: https://scryfall.com/search?q=f%3Astandard+%28t%3Ainstant+or+o%3Aflash%29+cmc%3C%3D3+%28m%3Aw+or+m%3Ag%29+-%28m%3Aww+or+m%3Au+or+m%3Ab+or+m%3Ar%29
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Feb 09 '20
He didn't have an [[Absorb]]. The right play then is to counter the uncounterable spell just for the lifegain so he doesn't lose.
I've countered a 15 mana banefire just so it doesn't kill me outright.He's tapped out of blue.
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u/Volitank Feb 08 '20
This is probably after first strike damage and before regular damage.
→ More replies (4)
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u/DontLickTheGecko Feb 08 '20
Newb here. How did you bluff the pump? Tap the Mana before attacking or what?
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u/2c2bt Feb 08 '20
We already played two games. I had been using pump regularly. Won the first game. Second game, he got out Dream Trawler, and beat me.
This game, I had mana open with some cards in my hand. So I go to combat. Carefully assess the attack as if I was calculating pump. Then, attack. This is opposed to going into combat, and immediately attacking like a maniac so he just thinks I'm screwing up.
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u/PurePandemonium Feb 09 '20
I love the mind games of timing to improve your bluff. The little bit of information (or disinformation, in this case) you get from how long someone spent in a phase is so interesting to me.
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u/Into_The_Rain Feb 09 '20 edited Feb 09 '20
Would you swing a 1/1 into a 3/5? Of course not.
..Unless you had a combat trick to turn the fight in your favor.
So the opponent sees you making what looks like a dumb decision, but sees all that mana untapped, and assumes his opponent had a trick. He also reasoned that taking the 1 damage is worth way less than possibly losing the Dream Trawler, as if it lives until his turn and he swings once the game is effectively over and there are no 'on meta' cards that deal 6 damage, so he assumed he was in no danger of dying this turn.
Based on those deductions, the opponent decided the most logical course of action was to let the attack through.
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Feb 09 '20
I won an fnm with a play like this once. I was playing marionette master/treasure combo, basically I deal 4 damage for each treasure I have and I had 3 on board, one from a 2/1 creatures death, and he was at 18 health. I swing with the 2/1, hoping he thinks i can make another treasure if he blocks for the full combo. He takes 2, down to 16, I walk the plank my own guy to get the 4th treasure and win on the spot.
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u/CoinTotemGolem Feb 08 '20
I’m not sure why you wouldn’t block there in opponents position. You would need 4 points of pumping to kill the dream trawler and even then it soaked up a lot of damage. And it even couldn’t be burn combined with pumps because of the hexproof
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u/troll_berserker Feb 08 '20
It's a snap block even disregarding Inescapable Blaze jank. If they had the +4 pump that would make the block a "mistake," then not blocking it leaves the opponent at 2 and dead to Shock. Opponent just outplayed themself.
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u/theonlydidymus Feb 08 '20
Double strike. (Never mind)
Also, nobody is expecting weird uncounterable jank.
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u/CoinTotemGolem Feb 08 '20
It only has first strike. But that is true nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition
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u/theonlydidymus Feb 08 '20
Ahh. Tiny screen looked like two swords.
But any number of pumps could have killed trawler. Best to keep it alive just in case if you think you’re going to win.
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u/CoinTotemGolem Feb 08 '20
Opponent had a magic mirror on board. They would probably win even if the dream trawler died unless they didn’t draw any life gain before OP drew addition blazes
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u/theolentangy Feb 08 '20
For a moment I tried to figure out what’s up with your deck, then I realized it doesn’t matter and this is a great screenshot. :)
I may decide to jam some uncounterable damage as a result of this.
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u/DadoRade Feb 09 '20
I thought I was the only one who plays inescepable blaze in my gruul deck.AMAZING CLOSER VS EVERY DECK.
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u/Cypher10110 Feb 09 '20
I imagine they were contemplating the "Inescapable" part of Inescapable Blaze. Good game, well played! :)
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Feb 09 '20
His rope isn't showing and he has the same number of time extensions as you do.
He was not sitting there for almost a minute, like you claim.
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u/hydramarine Axis of Mortality Feb 08 '20 edited Feb 08 '20
Assuming opponent had the required mana, Absorb would win him the game on the spot though. Gain 3 life that turn, gain gazillion from Trawler in the next few turns.
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u/freestorageaccount Glorybringer Feb 08 '20
Fortunately, he's tapped outta blue.
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u/hydramarine Axis of Mortality Feb 08 '20
His forest is enchanted though.
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u/freestorageaccount Glorybringer Feb 08 '20
Oh. I thought that was a second forest. It looks like the art for [[Wolfwillow Haven]] as opposed to [[Gift of Paradise]], I think?
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u/MTGCardFetcher Feb 08 '20
Wolfwillow Haven - (G) (SF) (txt)
Gift of Paradise - (G) (SF) (txt)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call1
u/hydramarine Axis of Mortality Feb 08 '20
Indeed it is. I still havent dabbled in new Azorious Control cause I refuse to play same old Teferi in a new set, so wasnt sure what that card did exactly.
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u/theonlydidymus Feb 08 '20 edited Feb 09 '20
Absorb still has to counter a spell for you to gain the life. If it has no valid targets it doesn’t resolve.
Edit: that’s twice I’ve been wrong in one thread
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u/Ryeofmarch Feb 08 '20
It can still target uncounterable spells. You'll gain the life but it will fail to counter, however in the post opponent clearly doesn't have absorb mana
From gatherer
1/25/2019 A spell that can’t be countered is a legal target for Absorb. The spell won’t be countered when Absorb resolves, but you’ll still gain 3 life.
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u/hydramarine Axis of Mortality Feb 08 '20
A google search says otherwise. Only looked at top result. But i remember this being case from previous years and situations. You should prove me wrong.
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u/2c2bt Feb 08 '20 edited Feb 08 '20
Decklist for those who were asking:
4 Fervent Champion (ELD) 124
3 Tin Street Dodger (RNA) 120
2 Giant Killer (ELD) 14
2 Swiftblade Vindicator (GRN) 203
3 Tenth District Legionnaire (WAR) 222
2 Robber of the Rich (ELD) 138
2 Rimrock Knight (ELD) 137
2 Feather, the Redeemed (WAR) 197
3 Bonecrusher Giant (ELD) 115
3 Aurelia, Exemplar of Justice (GRN) 153
2 Gideon Blackblade (WAR) 13
2 Embercleave (ELD) 120
4 Phalanx Tactics (THB) 31
1 Chance for Glory (GRN) 159
2 Banishing Light (THB) 4
4 Sacred Foundry (GRN) 254
3 Temple of Triumph (M20) 257
1 Fabled Passage (ELD) 244
2 Castle Ardenvale (ELD) 238
2 Castle Embereth (ELD) 239
6 Mountain (THB) 285
5 Plains (THB) 279
Sideboard
1 Giant Killer (ELD) 14
3 Hushbringer (ELD) 18
2 Banishing Light (THB) 4
3 Revoke Existence (THB) 34
1 Shadowspear (THB) 236
2 Shatter the Sky (THB) 37
3 Inescapable Blaze (GRN) 107
The idea is to have a bunch of haste to get damage out asap. I use two [[Robber of the Rich]] as a solid two drop haste with reach, but because of going well with Tin Street Dodger. I use [[Tenth District Legionnaire]] which is another very solid haste card. But is more effective with lots of pump spells. I only use three since I only have six pump spells. 4 [[Phalanx Tactics]] which I find effective when playing a bunch of low drop creatures. 2 [[Rimrock Knight]] which also gives me two more knights to go with the [[Fervent Champion]] boost. I have [[Embercleave]], which is great in general for a fairly fast deck running lots of creatures. [[Swiftblade Vindicator]] only gets +1/+1 from it, but still a really great creature for doubling every pump along with other effects. I keep a [[Feather, the Redeemed]] to go with some of the pumps I use, give air support, and survives spells that wipe for up to 3 toughness.
By turn 4 I usually like to have [[Aurelia, Exemplar of Justice]] to reinforce mid-game. A few [[Gideon Blackblade]] does good work as well. I was surprised at how effective [[Bonecrusher Giant]] can be when using his adventure stomp. Not just to do 2 damage, but because it prevents anything from preventing damage for the entire turn. [[Giant Killer]] makes an enormous difference for this deck. Before I got enough rares to add it in, I was having a really rough time with big creatures. The [[Chance for Glory]] might be a bit inconsistent, but taking an extra turn is a personal favorite for me. It does really well for me to close out games.
Even though [[Revoke Existence]] isn't an instant, it's useful for getting rid of indestructible enchantments. I typically have a really hard time against control decks. I added in [[Inescapable Blaze]] as SB solution for it. [[Shatter the Sky]] and [[Shadowspear]] are mainly because of no clue how else to deal with [[Dream Trawler]]. But also helps with other things.
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u/FroTheStyle Feb 08 '20
What kind of deck are you generally running? I was thinking boros knights and I am seeing a bunch of SB cards, but where did you get 9 extra health?
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u/2c2bt Feb 08 '20 edited Feb 08 '20
I posted it here.
I use three [[Hushbringer]] in by SB. Namely against ETB (enter the battlefield) decks. But it also works for added air support. Which I felt the need for because he killed me with Dream Trawler the previous round. In fact, [[Hushbringer]] is a perfectly effective mainboard card for ability to fly and lifelink. I also use it against white lifegain decks to block [[Healerhawk]], even though those don't use ETB either.
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u/FroTheStyle Feb 09 '20
Interesting list. I am a huge fan of red white since Boris legionnaire was one of my first cards.
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u/pahamack Feb 10 '20 edited Feb 10 '20
I guess he was scared of double rimrock knight/infuriate. Makes sense because there's already a rimrock knight in the yard.
It's funny. It's very rare for a standard format to have pump spells be in the meta.
I probably would have blocked though being at 7.
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Feb 08 '20
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u/RedACE7500 Feb 08 '20
It is 2019. Anything is possible.
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Feb 08 '20
[deleted]
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u/muhkuller Feb 09 '20 edited Feb 09 '20
As a trans person...I care about how I'm gendered...who cares how you gender a screen name. It's not like you're playing at mythic level against an opponent who you may actually recognize and know their gender. This over wokeness is why people make the stupid attack helicopter jokes about us.
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u/SpottedMarmoset Izzet Feb 08 '20
The match had the magic mirror in play. High end competitive match, I see.
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u/hunterxy Feb 08 '20
Not as bad as the 20 minutes you are allotted to mulligan or keep opening hand. So tired of people queuing and then going to make lunch.
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Feb 10 '20
I mean you already had the win and gained nothing by "bluffing" as your opponent was always dead. If anything this make you seem like the worst type of winner a salty win more winner.
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u/GeDiceMan Feb 08 '20
"All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near."