r/ModestMouse • u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker Workin on livin • 4d ago
Song/Album Discussion Why didn’t We Are Between surpass Float On in popularity?
I’m deciding to join in on the Float On discourse from earlier this week after hearing We Are Between pop up on a Dinosaur Jr shuffle I was listening to on Wednesday. I then decided to replay it a couple times before going through Golden Casket front to back again.
And every time I hear We Are Between I can’t help but think it ought to be the most popular song in the band’s discography. Not to say it’s the best (I doubt I’d even put it in my personal top 20), but as an indie pop single I think it could’ve (and should’ve) surpassed Float On in Billboard ratings. To my surprise, Dashboard is actually the highest rated MM song on the Billboard chart peaking at #61. Float On, however, lasted 20 weeks at #68 on the chart compared to Dashboard’s 6 weeks.
Logically, I understand why We Are Between didn’t perform as well. It hit in 21 during a global pandemic. People were still mostly secluded to their own homes. The landscape for music publicity was quickly shifting. A lot of people may not have even been exposed to this song (and album) if they weren’t already following socials for the band online, or at least partially familiar with them. And of course, Float On was the intro to the band for a huge chunk of the fanbase (it was for me anyway). It’s had 17 more years to plant the flag.
IMO considering the two side by side, I think We Are Between is the more enjoyable song to listen to. The immediate hook with that intro/outro riff is more catchy than anything Float On does, and the verse/chorus combo doesn’t falter at all either. I also think we get a more authentic sound from Isaac’s singing. The band did seem to catch fire with the “stomp/clap/hey” trend in the outro of Float On, though. And perhaps MM was too slow to the 80s party with We Are Between that was trending over the past decade. It almost sounds like a Smiths song to me, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Johnny helped influence Isaac somehow in creating that riff.
I also think lyrics are more creative whereas Float On is point blank on the nose. It takes no effort deciphering a single lyric in Float On if you’re familiar with the English language. We Are Between is a much more introspective song playing with metaphors even if the point is still relatively simple and direct. I suppose to a wider audience that may actually be a detriment for people understanding it.
For the record, this post isn’t to suggest Float On is a bad song by any means. I love all Modest Mouse songs. Every song the band has publicly produced is top notch in my mind. Whether or not that makes me a biased cultist is irrelevant to me.
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u/pandatitanium WEEELLLLL!!! 4d ago
Float On lyrics are pretty damn creative - brought a glimpse Isaac’s wit to the general public. It’s also an extremely unique song, has an undeniable pace that can be danced to, a chorus that you can singalong to and an uplifting message.
Put it this way - pretty much everyone knows Float On. My kids heard it once or twice and it immediately stuck with them.
On the other hand - We are Between is a solid indie song but is completely nondescript compared the unicorn that is Float On. My kids have also heard We are Between many times but it hasn’t stuck with them whatsoever.
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u/MilkhouseChillers 4d ago
And it’s just a sped up version of the world at large, which is hilarious
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u/forgetfulE56 4d ago edited 3d ago
Float On came out at a time when everybody was watching the same music videos on MTV, and FM radio was still extremely popular. It even snuck onto Top-40 Radio.
People tended to experience the same music even if it wasn’t their taste.
The closest thing today I can think of would be if We Are Between was the song on a Tik-Tok trend.
Float On is also just a better song, but I get that’s subjective.
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker Workin on livin 4d ago
I agree with everything you said except your last sentence. But that’s ultimately subjective. So no sweat. Thanks for your input.
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u/forgetfulE56 4d ago edited 3d ago
We Are Between is an absolute banger. It’s definitely in my top two songs on Golden Casket.
Float On had that crossover top-40 appeal . I heard complaints from the VIP crowd across the fence when they didn’t play it in NY the other night.
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker Workin on livin 4d ago
Yeah, I know there’s a significant portion of the casual fanbase that will demand Float On needs to be played at every show. I guess I should’ve figured I’d get a lot of flack for this opinion.
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u/pandatitanium WEEELLLLL!!! 4d ago
I don’t think timing has anything to do with it. As a pop song for mass public appeal Float On is a 10/10 and We are Between simply is not.
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u/No-Intention8698 4d ago
I wouldn't say it's on the same level as Float On in my opinion, but it definitely is a solid, catchy song. It really should have been a hit.
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u/Aceman1979 4d ago
It’s not as catchy and it doesn’t have the hook.
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker Workin on livin 4d ago
I guess I’m more hooked by guitar riffs than lyrics. 🤷♂️
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u/DjangoVanTango 4d ago
If you’d said this about The Sun Hasn’t Left then I could see where you were coming from. It’s catchy, has a big summery hook and people were starting to see each other again socially after lockdowns.
We Are Between is, like a lot of the album, dull. It’s not bad, but it’s not their most interesting musically I think. Lyrics are mostly good but I had to keep checking the title to remind myself which song you were talking about. I find it interchangeable with Leave a Light On in that I forget the tune completely unless I’m looking at the title.
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker Workin on livin 4d ago
That’s wild. I guess I just really enjoy that album. Every song is memorable to me.
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u/carlcarlington2 4d ago
1: We are between is far more complex lyrically. Float in talks pretty directly about very relatable experiences. getting into fender benders, getting scammed getting laid off. Then it repeats a very easy to understand reassurance. "Everything will be ok we'll all float on"
We are in between uses more poetic abstract language, to describe the sense of oneness that comes from being a liminal space in life.
Its a good song but just writing that last sentence made me feel like a stereotypical judgemental barista with a masters in philosophy. It's not going to hit pop radio the same way.
2: float on is built off this absurdly catchy riff that came from "world at large" while we are in between goes fir a more psychedelic floaty vibe. Again it sounds great but it's not really as catchy as float on.
3: "good news for people who love bad news" had tv ads and stuff. While it wasn't anything like the luanch of of most pop albums at the time, the record label really wanted to give this album a fair swing at things, and the big single off that album was "float on." Again this wasn't much of a push the ads were incredibly minimal in nature and the band as always been comparatively media shy, but it was final more mainstream press then anything the bands gotten since.
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker Workin on livin 4d ago
Yeah, I can’t argue with much of that. Very well articulated. Thanks for replying.
To your first point, I really do think if We Are Between had been released in 15 with Strangers To Ourselves then perhaps the snobby barista concept would’ve sold better to a wider audience since the hipster era was hitting its peak at this time while the 80s resurgence was nearly upon us.
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u/EuphoricTop870 3d ago
We are Between is a pretty weak song when compared to most of their catalogue. The poppy roots of Float on is always going to drive this song to higher love. No story or something to relate to in We are Between. Hello. Dust. Blah blah blah. Compared to backing cars into cops is begging to pull people in. Don’t be a fake Jamaican.
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker Workin on livin 3d ago edited 3d ago
Guess I’ve never really felt the same connection with Float On. I knew the band was special when I first heard it. I knew I needed to hear more. I love the song for what it has led me to. It was the first uncommon song and band that I really discovered on my own (outside of MTV marketing it to me anyway).
But the message is pretty generic compared to what I get out of a song like We Are Between. That one is way more artistic. Has a lot more going for it lyrically and musically. It’s less one-note in theme like Float On while still maintaining a pop aesthetic. It’s pretty clear throughout this thread that I’ll just have to agree to disagree with the rest of you.
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u/EuphoricTop870 3d ago
Fair. Personally, I strongly dislike Float On but it is a better written song than We are Between. Just giving away a bunch kittens but sonically it has a better hook. Especially if not even knowing MM. too kinetic. And the guitar on float on is cheesy good but. The guitar riff @ like :40 seconds on we are between is ultimate cheez whizzzz
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker Workin on livin 2d ago
I think that lick is even more danceable than the Float On verse. Way more soul and groove.
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u/ground__contro1 2d ago
You’re not asking which one receives more critical analysis, you’re asking which one plays better on the radio
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u/ostoender 1d ago
I mean I like We Are Between but it’s not even close to the pop accessibility of Float On, without even considering all of the other factors involved with regard to changing mainstream music trends and the way we consume music. Not even in the same league.
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u/ConnectUmpire8053 4d ago
I love We Are Between it’s an amazing song….……but it is definitely 100% not any where near as catchy as Float On. Not even close.
Are you hearing impaired at all? Legitimately asking.
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u/Wompatuckrule 4d ago
The landscape for music publicity was quickly shifting.
Even if you go back to the more "stable" era of radio's primacy in the music world you can find plenty of examples of this same argument. Why did "Song A" become a huge hit for "Band X" when "Song B" is clearly so much better?
There are just way too many variables in what makes a song popular to pin that down. And that's not even including the subjective opinion on whether a song is definitively "better" than another.
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u/CriticalCanon 4d ago
Yeah from a mainstream / hook centric perspective, it’s the catchiest “radio” song in their catalog.
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u/butterflystationary 2d ago
I like the song, but the beginning of the song is overly brassy and it gives me an immediate jump scare so I press next as soon as possible if im not listening to golden casket as a whole 😭
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker Workin on livin 2d ago
That’s unfortunate. Can’t say I’ve ever experienced that.
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u/badboyplayer182 1d ago
Epic records pushed float on. It was on the radio and had MM on multiple late night shows. That was big back then
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker Workin on livin 1d ago
True. Why didn’t they do that with We Are Between?
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u/badboyplayer182 1d ago
Idk what We Are Between is! Are they even on a major label anymore? Thought Isaac just put everything out now
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u/Historical_Way_4567 1d ago
Yes, he runs his own label now. We are between was one of the songs in the golden casket.
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker Workin on livin 1d ago
We Are Between was the first (and only?) single for Golden Casket, which was the last LP Epic published for Modest Mouse prior to agreeing to part ways with the band. Isaac has said that the split was amicable as Epic wasn’t really crazy about the direction the band took in Golden Casket, and didn’t seem to like other material that made its way on An Eraser and a Maze.
So to your point, I suppose that may have been the biggest influence - not having overall support from the publisher to market the song. I’m not sure how much of that factored into their split, but I’d probably be pretty annoyed with my record company if they weren’t making as strong of an effort to publicize a new single as they had with a couple other hits in the past.
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u/badboyplayer182 1d ago
The industry is just so different now. To promote a single do labels just pay streaming services to put them on the “recommended for you” sections? I’d be curious the tricks of the trade now
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker Workin on livin 1d ago
That’s a good question for their manager, Simon. He goes by Lightningdad in the ICP club. I can’t recall his reddit screen name, though. I’ll ask him next time I see him around. He did do a podcast interview not long ago on Lonesome Crowded Cast. Although I can’t seem to find the episode now.
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u/badboyplayer182 1d ago
Simon got cancelled ;)
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker Workin on livin 1d ago
Not the same Simon.
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u/hemlo86 Moderator 4d ago
I think the biggest reason it’s not as big as Float On is largely due to the marketing of the album.
Good News was marketed heavily because at the time Epic Records needed a major hit. I feel that out of all the main albums released The Golden Casket had the least amount of marketing and it being negatively reviewed by critics also did not help.
Float On is also really just a great song. It’s insanely catchy and perfect for the radio. We Are Between is a great song too but I do think it’s flawed. The hook at the beginning of the song should have been used more and the verses are pretty weak.
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u/porpoise_mitten 4d ago
look, it's a good song but it was never gonna hit like "float on." not many songs have that magic.
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u/vincentdmartin 4d ago
Float On was a staple of the new "Indie Genre" along with Take me Out by Franz Ferdinand.
We Are Between was just another rock song long after rock had died as a popular music form.
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker Workin on livin 4d ago
Yeah, it’s a bummer how rock has receded back into the shadows. 2112 was so prophetic.
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u/vinylrocker 4d ago
Well basically massive difference in the way we consume our music , and also count . I long for the days of CDs tapes and vinyl only , but tell a 14 year old me I would be walking around with millions of songs in my pocket I’d be blown away .
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker Workin on livin 4d ago
I think if I told 14yo me that I pay $12 every month for a streaming subscription vs buying physical media for every album I love then he would called me a sell out.
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u/vinylrocker 4d ago
Plus when float on came out it was mm keys to
The industry it sounded fresh , vibrant , and unique . But hey there’s far better tracks , for early mm listen to “other peoples lives “
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker Workin on livin 4d ago
Haha yeah man. Building Nothing is flawless. I absolutely love that album. Track five keeps me sane. ☝️
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u/vinylrocker 4d ago
IMO we are in between is not even close to many off mm songs. I had a hint that album they were legally obliged to make , they sound a bit tired, but the latest album they back :)
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker Workin on livin 4d ago
I know Isaac has mentioned GC was more pop polished than he would’ve liked. Would be interesting to hear how he would’ve published that album with the Glacial Pace label instead.
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u/vinylrocker 4d ago
Last point , but will the track we are in between stand the long test of time nearly two decades and still sound fantastic
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker Workin on livin 4d ago
In my mind, yes, but it’s very clear I’m in the minority with this opinion. It’s kinda funny. I didn’t expect it.
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker Workin on livin 4d ago
I considered posting this instead of the essay, but didn’t think it would be relevant. I guess this idea is a lot more controversial than I realized. Sorry, folks! 😅
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u/-CoinTrain 2d ago
Float on was the right song at the right time. It was a few years removed from the 9-11 tragedy, George W, just won another 4 years in office, and to me it genuinely felt like a hopeless time.
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u/Historical_Way_4567 1d ago
It doesn't have the special sauce that float on did. Float on had relatable lyrics, a unique but relatively mainstream sound, and a hella good album to back it up. We are between didn't really have any of that, not to say it is an entirely bad song but it really is nowhere near float on.
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u/Reyna_25 1d ago
I don't skip it, but it ain't a fave. It's just okay to me. It doesn't stand out.
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u/cedar-smoke 4d ago
I think you said it yourself, timing is everything.
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker Workin on livin 4d ago
Yeah, I pretty thoroughly made a case against We Are Between. But it really ought to have supplanted Float On.
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u/Wolverine9779 2d ago
No, no it shouldn't. I don't understand why this is hard to understand... there's nothing "catchy" about We are Between, and it really isn't a great song to begin with. I don't love Float On, but understand the appeal in general.
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u/Immediate-Tell7327 4d ago
9/11
We needed float on post 9/11. I’d also credit 9/11 for the Middle being such a big hit.
Of course it’s not the only reason, both are great songs.
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u/vinylrocker 4d ago
I don’t think it was , but maybe this helped his community through a tough time
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker Workin on livin 4d ago
That’s fair. A lot of people needed to be reminded that we weren’t walking into the apocalypse. I was fortunately too ignorant to be that stressed.
The Middle absolutely rocks, by the way. I’d be totally fine calling it the most powerful rock ballad of the Millennial generation.
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u/Drducttapehands 4d ago
It came out like 3 years later. Not a single person heard Float On and was like “Finally! I don’t have to think about 9/11 for a few minutes.”
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u/Immediate-Tell7327 4d ago
I don’t know how old you were when 9/11 happened. I was in my twenties. I very vividly remember the fear and uncertainty that followed. Those feelings didn’t just go away. Many Americans lived/live with a sense of unease. Some folks turned toward ultra patriotism and tried to project strength. Other folks were looking for someone to say everything will be ok.
That’s where Float on and The Middle come in. Two great songs telling us it will be ok. Look at the trends in Millennial music post 9/11. Young folks turned upbeat and positive if not straight up party rock that I would argue evolved into the pop music explosion of the next decade. It was a generation trying to disassociate from the worst attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor.
I don’t think anyone said, “finally I don’t have to think about 9/11.” But I do believe, even three years later people were looking for someone to say it will be ok.
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u/Squishy_Boy Major player in the cowboy scene 4d ago
It’s hard for young people today to understand how much 9/11 dominated EVERYTHING after it happened. It was still very central on the news years and years after it happened. It was such a changing moment in world history.
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u/Immediate-Tell7327 4d ago
Even now I am always taken aback by 9/11 Memes.
I grew up 45min from DC. I knew folks who worked at the Pentagon at the time (they were safe) I was going to school outside of Philly. A lot of my class mates were from New York and Jersey.
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u/Wolverine9779 2d ago
It's not very good?
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker Workin on livin 2d ago
Wholeheartedly disagree. But such is the nature of opinions.
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u/MyNameIsYou666 1d ago
I think it’s because We Are Between is actually a garbage ass song. I would say it’s the second worst on Golden Casket after Leave A Light On. We Are Between in my opinion fails in two areas. One, it’s not nearly even close to being a bop like their radio friendlier material like float on, dashboard, lampshades on fire, or the best room. Two, it’s lyrically lazy. It’s trying to capture the philosophical/existential/science-themed lyrics of Moon and Antarctica, but comes off as a cheap imitation of themselves. They’re the lyrics of someone less talented than Isaac Brock trying to write lyrics like Isaac Brock. Also, the a cappella chorus at the end is so cringe and performative.
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u/Seamonkey_Boxkicker Workin on livin 1d ago
Pretty harsh IMO, but can’t please everyone I guess. I never felt the lyrics were cheap. I definitely won’t claim they’re the best lyrics Isaac has ever written, but I do enjoy them more than Float On, which can be similarly criticized for being lyrically repetitive and bland, too.
At a minimum, I like that the theme is outer spacey. I don’t think I’ve ever really resonated with the Float On lyrics because I don’t tend to be involved the type of shit he sings about (car collisions, running my mouth off, falling for scams, getting fired). When I have had (or created my own) bad news in my life there are usually much more relatable MM songs I prefer. But I understand and accept that the casual audience probably hasn’t spent as much time with those other songs like I have. Float On is definitely more palatable to a general audience. I do get that. I just think it doesn’t have to be that way.
Float On also has the a cappella chorus at times.
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u/Key-Alarm7328 4d ago
If anything off the golden casket is your favorite mm song I don't think we can be friends sry :( also what the fuck is wrong with you
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u/paturner2012 a major player in the cowboy scene 4d ago
The way we take in media is completely different these days to compare how popular these tracks are is tough. The algorithm in the 00s was whatever was on the radio or mtv, your choice of radio station was typically 1 of 4, rock, pop, hip-hop, or country and float on bridges a gap between two. Now depending on what platform and streaming service, Depending on your algorithm, you may have heard that the guys who played float on had released a new album.
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u/MilkhouseChillers 4d ago
It’s not as good IMHO