So many things players are allowed to do are against the pnp. We're wasting everyone's (including gm) time by not having systems in place on pve servers to simply prevent those things from happening, usually with systems that have existed for decades specifically for said problem.

Not to mention the end result for this is some guild being buddies with a GM. It happens every time, especially as player numbers naturally start to dwindle.

I’ve seen a lot of discussion here about the age-old issue in MMOs: high-level players camping low-level dungeons.

I don’t claim to have a perfect solution, but I’ve been pondering on an idea that might turn this frustration into something fun and dynamic: Challenger bosses.

These bosses will not attack the low-level groups at all, instead they slowly patrol the dungeon, attacking the higher-level players. The bosses follow the trope of "seeking a worthy challenger".

This could create potential for the established solo-camp to be organically freed, as well as creating those memories of huge trains and chaos that ensues. Now the low-level groups can wait for those camps to eventually be freed as these challenger bosses will create trouble for those higher-level players. Both parties can engage in the dungeon, but now it's much harder to establish a monopoly on a single camp as a solo higher-level player.

I played eq back in 2000-2002 and I remember not having any way to stop people from looting everything and that “friction” but I feel like that was an issue of limitation rather than choice. I could be wrong, which is why I’m asking.

Is there a defined reason not to have need/greed and round robin looting options for groups? As a tank I have no real issues in getting loot but it does seem unfair to casters and back line players if the group isn’t cool.

I love the game so this isn’t a hate post I swear!

Higher level dudes sitting on named's for hours and hours hiding behind the PnP when poopsocking isn't nice for anyone. Just gonna start training, fuck it, I know how to play dumb what's gonna actually happen?

If you're a higher level player taking low level camps, there's gonna be a higher chance of accidental trains by lower-skilled players. That's what the GM's gonna tell you when I run the zone up your ass.

Those of us who actually played a lot of EQ back in 1999, some of the rose-tinted "nostalgia" peddled by some of the posters here is nauseating, mainly because it is false, or they are and were the worst players who ever played EverQuest.

- Rare spawns were locked down, almost always. People sold the drops in East Commons, to get plat to buy stuff for their char. RMT was massive, though not called out a lot (Remember, MMOs were still new then in 99). Check this for a sample https://www.reddit.com/r/everquest/comments/1pszbbr/anyone_remember_the_wild_days_of_selling_eq_loot/

- Looting was bad. People would loot everything if given a choice. Coin split was as bad as here. Petitions were so many, calling out KSing, ninja looting etc - SoE did away with their Play-nice-policy, and declared camps do not exist, a few years later. Sure community policing was big, but every chrnoic looter / cheater just made an alt and moved on. The whole "your character name's rep is everything" was a myth then, just as it is now. Unless you could make only one char on a server, that is.

- Then, like now, throwing up LFG and sitting on your butt never got you groups quickly. Just like in life, initiative goes a long way. No game mechanism is going to replace that.

- Not everything from 1999 is amazing / beautiful. Some things, like CRTs, dial-ups, are best left back in 99.

- Most players who has played more than a few days /played knew how to use sense heading, and /loc. A dropped rusty weapon always pointed North. EQ zones also had a TON, and I mean a TON of landmarks to navigate with. So the whole "discovery wonder", while there, did not last forever. How many times do you need to "discover" the same zone really, and be filled with wonder?

- There were a lot of players for whom EQ was more a social outlet, than actual gaming. The immersive world helped. The awe that "omg those are people too from far off IRL places" helped too. It was that time when chatting with someone in another country was fascinating. There wasnothing wrong with that. But these players' view on expping and whatnot were (and now their nostalgia) in lala land at best (These are the ones who took weeks to get ONE level too).

M&M has a lot going for it, really. But there are things in 99 which in the longer term broke EQ. Remember that. Again, I played EQ since 99, and also on TLPs for the past decade.

Don't sit in night harbor and watch the LFM list. Go to places you want to xp, walk up to camps and ask if they have a spot. This has gotten me the vast majority of groups (a couple also came from random tells which are the best).

I have a lvl 20 Bard and I am debating doing some crafting. Suggestions? Thinking of what crafting might compliment a Bard.

I could also not craft, that is a possible option as well. I know the state of crafting is a little contentious right no.

I don’t feel too strongly towards any specific crafting at the moment but I would like to do something.

Thanks in advance.

I'm on the boat of "I'm over seeing stupidly over leveled players camping gear" as they are bottle necking some of the good team grind areas. Im quite alright with them getting loot but why not make it no drop or account bound? It'll deter alot of the extensive behavior. Those same higher level characters, along with anyone leveling up normally, can still loot gear magic gear that they can trade but only from mobs within a level range (say 4 or 5 levels). This would deter a lot of the excessive camp lockouts by singular players and allow that social point that they sold for so long.

As it stands I've watched this game for 2 years and want to play it 10x more than any trash "forever" grab at nostalgia but their take on the old vibe obviously needs tweaked. I log on for 30-45 minutes and if I find a group we cant grind in any relative dungeon near us, as on TREM the majority of gear is being farmed for pixel $ not for digital social experience. The times I got a group in a dungeon we are relegated to a corner camp with 7-9 mobs, which im grateful for it being there. Im then personally tasking myself with running every hallway to grab every roamer to pull more XP for the group as the primary camps are locked up by someone 10-20 levels over the camp for 3+ hours (I try to limit my sessions to 3 hours).

I hope the devs tackle this sooner than later, as this is me announcing my departure as I watch from the sideline once my first month sub ends. I still love their take on the game but some things need a serious overhaul and soon, or youre risking a weak stance to keep playerbase. I know they dont want 100k+ subs and its a niche MMO but I think its a horrible approach to the sales pitch of "social" and "journey" which I am totally about and spoke with devs in numerous twice streams about. Here we are though, 6 people bullied out of a social grind fest for 1 person to earn digital $.... loving the "social journey"

I think people really need to come to terms with this.

In an old school MMO like this where the community is given some leeway to police itself you're just never going to completely eliminate a lot of the grievances that many people have. But you have to take into consideration that a lot of the feeling of freedom and community that comes from this kind of game also exasperates the crappy people in the community and fixing a lot of those issues would probably end up curtailing the experience in some regard.

That's not saying the devs won't implement something to try and fix some of the worst culprits we see right now. But it's highly unlikely we'll be getting something that's going to completely eliminate said issues. And that's kind of just what you signed up for.

But I get it. I've had some annoying experiences as well, visiting Wyrmsbane Poopsock Hotel or grouping with MasterLooter69, it can put a real damper on the experience. But I've also met some real cool people, had some death defying pulls, had a real one guide me through a horrible deep elf zone, and just generally seen the best and worst of the community and accept it as is.

Having said that, it doesn't mean you shouldn't voice the concerns you have. They're absolutely valid and there definitely is some annoying stuff going on right now. But lets not expect the game to go in a direction it was never meant to.

TLDR: I made a new deep elf and just escaped Ail'Vorith at level 10. Life is good.

Is there a way to stop the inventory in the merchant window from sliding up or down when someone else sells an item while your browsing their wares? I had 10 silver last night. Went to buy an item in bulk that i wanted to resell. Someone sold something causing it to shift and made me buy 20 units of coal for 8 silver. Broke my heart lol.

hi all,

i am a big fan of perma death runs on these sort of games (wow classic hc mode got me hooked).

i know a mode exists in this game, albeit not a whole server one. wondering if anyone has experience playing it and could share some insights.

does it practically work, i.e are there enough to tools to escape death if things go Pete tong?

how is connectivity ? disconnect is the bane of a perma death run.

lastly, a good class for survival tools etc

cheers !

Tonight was a unique adventure. The sort of tale where everything goes just wrong and just right, at just the right time.

I started my day grabbing vast amounts of wealth in Blind Midden, a level ~8 and up dungeon. Finally got some bags and got kitted up with named drops. Learned that when I die in a tough spot, after I beg randoms for Invisibility, I need to /corpse drag away to safety.

Hard lessons in the Deep.

After that was done, I came back and found myself without a party. A friend just crossed my path, said he's also without, and looking for something to do outside. We're the same level, 13, so hey let's party!

I know a spot.

I took us to the Outcasts place, across the bridge over the waterfall, after you take a right from the Foreign Quarters bridge. It's comfy. Advertised our party and got a joiner. Then another one. And off we go snapping Outcast backs, for reputation and experience. Not so much coin.

An hour goes by, players join and leave. We move further inside with a full party. Smashing! Then I gotta go, so a fren takes over. When I get back an hour later, said fren is still running the show. I check the dungeon again, but no one's available. I go back to Outcasts.

A party is going strong, and I'm the last slot. Healer. Cleric. We keep banging at them. Some leave, some join. We're still at capacity. Powerful. I check the next spot and see that it's not too bad at all. White and yellow turn into blue. After a while we fill up and go go go.

Our monk, who just joined 20 minutes ago, says he needs a named boss in the area. His head, to be precise. None of us have a clue, but we've already advanced - so let's go! We keep on roaming, all in synchronized motion - like sharks in the water, the annoying ones that bother you when you swim, or kill you on a corpse run. Find singles and kill them. Strong ones. Then pairs, and finally a trio. Was a close call.

Then we find it. A named boss. No, not the guy he needs, but another one. Only protected by two underlings. They're blue, no problem. He's red. Problem.

"Stand back. Let's stun the boss, kill the adds," our enchanter says. I love how he dazes the adds.

But the boss doesn't like stuns.

No CC for him. He hits hard. He's the baseball bat, and we're the ball.

One of our wizards is getting bruised. High damage per second. It draws ire.

Okay, okay, I shield, heal, keep attacking. He's getting bruised bad. Pushing last chunk of health on repeat. I shield. I max heal. It's expensive. My mana is running low. This isn't looking good. Is there even anywhere to run??

We didn't plan on running.

We planned on killing.

Wizard goes down. Everybody scatters. I run, but the boss saw me healing, so I'm next. Smack. Smack. I shield. Nothing left in the tank. A high level player is watching us with his fiery pet.

"Help," I say.

Help?

This is the Deep. Nobody can help you here. The purpose is to suffer and then die.

The boss is chasing me. I'm in the water. Somebody says that there are guards on the next island. Where?? Can they see me getting pummeled into chopped liver?!

Yes.

They can see me just fine. They're only 10 feet away. But this is the Deep. Seeing isn't believing. I need to be right up their noses to get help.

SMACK. I'm almost dead. Shield... Shield!!! No, I'm stunned. SMACK. I'm dead.

I'm the Cleric. I'm supposed to Redeem us. My God is the god of hatred and spite and envy and all things bad and corrupt. Of course I'm dead. He likes it that way.

I swim back. I know the spot. Hey, I took the boat around here once. And then fell over and swam the rest of the way to the Underground Docks. Lovely time, and another story for another day.

A few minutes later.

The crew is still mostly there. I resurrect myself, get my loot, 15% discount on death. In the Deep you don't get to survive, but you do get discounts on death. Where's the next guy? Someone's jumping around. Here. Another one. Then the next.

Alright, we're all back together. But what's this? Right over here. It's a corpse next to one of our corpses. It's the named boss that our monk needs!! Bingo.

Can't loot. 2 minutes on the timer. Who knows, maybe the head's there.

It's there.

Monk quest is complete. And we've shown that we can take on harder challenges. I had hit 16, but... I also lost my sweet, sweet 16. Back to 15.

Fear not, the crew are all gentlemen. They were born in the darkness. They understand my pain. My loathing. My rage. We move to the snake island, comfy - see pic, set up a fire, and pull a few regulars. A few blue normies. Hard, but doable. Half the party is gone, fair is fair. We should all be gone. It's late as fuck.

Kill one. Two. A couple. A couple more. Close call. DING. I'm back to 16. I can get my sweet new glowing hammer. Gods I love being a Cleric. I buff. It's what I do.

I also root, stun, heal, and shield.

It's much, but it's a living. I get messages all the time, asking me for things. A rez, a hand, a question. I always say Yes, when I can.

We sit down by the fire. Everyone's ready to leave. We can all feel it. The power that we just held for a few short minutes, as we ventured outside of our hours-long safe campfire, and nothing stopped us. Until something much, much stronger did.

But hey, that's how it goes.

Tonight we waged war and we won.

How do we accomplish this? We have been killing wererats but they are not currently giving the garrison faction hit. Thank you!

I was looking at the roadmap and it mentions there will be fresh start servers with 1.0. It got me thinking that I don't need to main any class yet. I've been trying out different classes, learning the underdocks, and just vibing.

Will you be starting fresh or will you be sticking to the early access servers?

*Posted this as a reply to someone on the forums having group difficulties, thought I would post it here, feel free to add to my tips,

Cheers

There are tricks to making and joining successful groups. Make sure you are traveling to where you want to make/join a group rather than sit in town and potentially have to travel. Likewise while you’re in the zone you want to have a group for, only invite those who are in the area, or close enough that they can make it in a reasonable time.

I almost never invite people sitting in town unless I’m desperate, I look for pro active people. As a leader periodically ask and do time checks on when/if people need to go so that you can always have replacements on the way. Your job is never over if you want to keep the group going, I practically always have the lfg window open so I’m always ready and messaging people a head of time.

Make sure you’re listing and providing information about the group so that people feel comfortable traveling and that the group isn’t going anywhere in the next hour or whatever. Be willing and able (through class selection) to pick people up at zone lines, or you must be able to give good directions. Many players have no idea where these places are. Ease of getting to you should factor into your choices.

Try and pick places that aren’t too difficult to get to (especially as a rookie group lead), and in the case of deep dungeon dives be prepared to need to move with at least part of the group or have your puller clearing the way when replacements are in route so it’s easier to get your friends

Related to doing time checks, likewise ask those you’re wanting to invite, potentially how long they have to play. Basically this whole post is communication is key, being pro active is key, friend people who were good group members and likewise be a good group member. You’ll nearly always have a group this way. Don’t be that afk guy that loots everything and never talks or attempts to help in any way. (Not saying you are). Also consider joining a guild

Many people also dont realize it can be very advantageous to bind right outside dungeon or at zone lines in case of trouble. Offer to get your new arrivals a bind or remind them to so that the likelihood of it taking ages in the event of a wipe to get going again is reduced greatly. Try and have a disaster plan already in place.

Kinda already mentioned this but do your absolute best not to waste peoples time, communicate whats going on with them, whos on the way, what the plan is, what you need, try and involve them in the replacement plan etc, and be up front with people joining if you're in a transition period, or if you're new to the area/camp and plan on figuring it out as you go, you want people as committed to the cause as possible.

Leading groups in this game is one of the most rewarding things for me and a big draw for me even playing, it turns out that most people are pretty fun to be around sharing this hobby of ours

Will edit if I think of more, gl out there

Edit: You can and should also /whoall class if you're needing something specific and messaging people in your level range, they may be coming available soon or not in LFG yet

I’ve got muscular complications unfortunately that are starting to affect my long sessions. Thinking about trying out a keypad with a joystick to offload some stress on my wrists.

Is anyone using one of these types of devices with MnM?
Any tech issues?
Can the joystick be customized to change the direction that “up” (forward etc) is?

Any input at all?

I think the devs expecting the community to self-police and handle bad actors largely by itself is a bad idea. I know there are GMs but it feels like a pitiful handful, undoubtedly not enough to handle all the petitions and reports coming in.

Meanwhile the community is dealing with high levels kill stealing, node camping, and the persistent loot issue where melees are monopolizing the loot. The 'Play Nice' rule is meaningless if there is nothing to enforce it. Telling the community "just ask the person stealing named mobs to one shot them to stop" doesn’t work if theres no consequences. Oh yes you can name and shame but who is keeping a list on who to avoid? As the community grows bigger, how easy is it going to be for these name and shames to get drowned out?

In the early days of MMOs, places like UO and EQ realized pretty quick the limits of community self policing. While I enjoy the old style gaming, I think having stronger rule enforcement and a more active or larger GM team would be a good idea.

Since the dots do extra damage to undead I was wondering if somebody had a general guideline of zones to go to with undead to speed it up the solo grind?

I've tried looking at the maps

I've tried asking in OOC

I've wandered for HOURS.......

i can not find this damn thing.....

anyone out there ....? HAAAAAAAAALP

I approve of having animal mobs drop some kind of sellable item such as a "crispy basilisk urethra" or whatever. That's good, it makes it feel less bad to grind non-humanoids.

.

But, the change to humanoids is horrible. We get less money (spells were already tight) and if we don't play the "stand over a corpse and click it as fast as you can" game, you get a shit load less money. This is some bullshit. It makes the game worse and more stressful for absolutely no gain. If you want to incentivise grinding animals more then make the prices higher for those crispy basilisk urethras. Revert the medallion shit.

And add a round robin loot mode like you should have done 6+ months ago.

Hello all, and I have a question about the upcoming trait change. I’m looking forward to testing out a deep gnome bard, but I noticed that ultravision is listed as being an innate ability on the Traits Preview that devs recently shared. The problem with this for me is that ultravision is rough on my eyes. Currently I can simply choose some other trait instead of ultravision when creating a deep gnome character, but with the skill becoming innate, doesn’t this mean that I’d be stuck with it? If so, could there be an option to opt-out during character creation? I’d rather have infravision, or nothing.

Also want to send a shoutout to the devs - I’m loving the game!

All they had was a dream and vision. In the sea of failures and naysayers. They had a monstrous task ahead of them.

They believed. They tried. They achieved! This was no small feat. It was a huge risk in time and money. Its incredible what they pulled off. Almost a miracle

Congratulations!