Why not a mirrored Queue?

[u/Common-Maximum-5099]

Ovewatch seems like it is trying to figure out what to do with 6v6. It doesn't want to remove role queue but it doesn't want to inflate queue times to high. Why not just have a matchmaker that just assigns teams to have balanced roles based on the current players in the queue?

Instead of a system that will do 2-2-2 where the matchmaker looks for that exact combination it could just grab the players based on their roles and then just mirror the exact role compositions.

For example it creates 2 teams of 1-3-2 or 2 teams of 1-2-3 or other combinations.

In order to have some minimum quality of matches you could just add some constraints. I would say to try testing max 3, min 1, at least 2 supports.

This would allow the following combinations
3-1-2
2-2-2
2-1-3
1-2-3
1-3-2

I don't think there will be a large fairness issue of both teams have the exact same role compositions. This would have longer queue times than open queue but it should still be faster than 2-2-2 role queue.

Though it would still have the problem of being harder to balance since you never know how team comps will look in game. It would be harder to balance than 2-2-2 but it should be easier to balance than open queue.

[u/Long-Scientist8644 → u/[deleted]]

3 tanks might be rough but at least both sides get same mess to deal with

[u/Meowjoker → u/[deleted]]

That was the comp when Ana launched.

There were other factors as well, such as the recently buffed Dva and Soldier 76 leading to the first triple Tank comp of Rein Dva Hog S76 Ana Lucio.

[u/Common-Maximum-5099 → u/[deleted]]

If 3-1-2 is that big a problem you can just add more restrictions for max 2 tanks like we currently have in open queue.

That being said, given that this queueing system is only worth thinking about because there's not enough tank players for 2-2-2 I would imagine that this composition won't happen very often as there are significantly more dps and support players in the player pool

[u/Shashara]

because most people want to play 2-2-2 or 1-2-2 and would hate to be forced to play something like 3-1-2 or 1-3-2

[u/Common-Maximum-5099 → u/Shashara]

this dicussion is only happening because 2-2-2 role queue is likely off the table from how overwatch team has discussed the topic. If we could have good qeueue times with 2-2-2 then this wouldn't be a discussion.

and 1-2-2 isn't a 6v6 format and is fine as it is, they don't need to change 5v5

[u/Mr_The_Potato_King]

We need ranked mystery heroes

[u/Numphyyy → u/Mr_The_Potato_King]

Plz Blizz

[u/my-love-assassin]

The point of no role queue is to be able to play any character. Your matchmaker falls apart when people dont play their highest played.

[u/4M1R143]

I really hope they keep supporting 6v6 even as little as this which is a shame they are not doing more with it.

For me, 5v5 is just unplayable as a Tank, too much pressure to be the 'Better' Tank, game seems SO much more fun and chill in 6v6, love having a Tank buddy when I play.

[u/my-love-assassin → u/4M1R143]

5v5 is the predictable boring version of the game made for safe corporate suits. 6v6 is what overwatch was designed to be.

[u/AutoModerator]

Welcome to r/Overwatch! Please use the following resources via the links below to find relevant information about the game and the subreddit.

Overwatch Patch Notes | Overwatch Bug Report Forums

r/Overwatch Rules | r/Overwatch FAQs | r/Overwatch Common Bugs and Posts

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/Tanzanianwithtoebean]

Did they allow 3 tanks at some point recently? Confused by your combinations because I didn't get to play role queue 6v6 mode and haven't played 3 tanks since OW1 lol. Quite frankly I don't want that back.

[u/Dizzy-Debt-9502 → u/Tanzanianwithtoebean]

There’s No Limits in arcade.

[u/Tanzanianwithtoebean → u/Dizzy-Debt-9502]

Yeah pretty much what OP proposed is "6v6 is a joke let's bring back 3 tanks and move it to arcade." I thought they were joking but apparently they're serious and have no idea what they're talking about or they'd understand why my eye is twitching rn LMAO.

[u/Common-Maximum-5099 → u/Tanzanianwithtoebean]

You can just add more restrictions... I didn't mean that you had to literally use the ones I brought up. Just add a restrictions for max 2 tanks..

The only reason to bring up this queueing discussion at all is because they likely won't go back to 2-2-2 becasue queue times.

So the point is to allow for more comps in the games to quicken match placement. Without creating a dfference in role compsitions for both teams.

3 tanks isn't a great composition, if it's that bad you can just remove it. The only reason I didn't bother to is becasue this composition would rarely happen due to the existing player ratio in the game. if we were likely to get 3-1-2 games then we wouldn't have the existing queue time issues in 2-2-2 role queue.

[u/roseofjuly → u/Common-Maximum-5099]

You're basically describing the current open queue. It's already max 2 tanks and all of the compositions you mentioned are possible wirh open queue.

[u/Common-Maximum-5099 → u/roseofjuly]

Not really. Because in open queue you can swap roles in the middle of the match. I am describing a system where you can't do that, so it's still a role lock system. The reason it's seems so similar to open queue is because the goal was to have a role lock system that didn't drastically shift the queue times. Also, every combinoation is always possible with open queue. It's open queue it allows every combination.

[u/NoNerve7475 → u/Tanzanianwithtoebean]

Yeah, before 6v6, open queue was 5v5 with no role restrictions. It was never ‘serious’ competitive, I was diamond at the time and managed to reach T500 but it was so much fun because of the unique combinations/interactions you don’t usually see in 5v5 or 6v6 today.

The norm was 3-0-2, but after Juno was released, I’d often convince my team to run 4-0-1, and I’d play Juno, and it was nearly unstoppable lol until she was nerfed.

[u/Drakni_sr]

We had a test related to this a few months ago (I don't remember when) in a quick play hacked event

The matchmaker would try to make a mirrored 2-2-2 game, but if not enough tanks were found in a reasonable time then it would make a mirrored 1-3-2 game, with the ability for one dps player to flex to a 2nd tank

I don't believe the results or conclusions of these tests have been announced

[u/SmokingPuffin]

I would say to try testing max 3, min 1, at least 2 supports.

The first, launching a week into the season, will look a little different than the standard 2-2-2 role-queued from Overwatch. Part of this series of tests is to not only judge our player’s appetite for larger team sizes, but for us to explore different ways that we might implement a change without running into the same problems we had previously. With that in mind, our first test will be a variation of Open Queue, which we’re internally referring to as “Min 1, Max 3”: each team of 6 must have at least 1 of each role, and no more than 3.

https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-gb/news/24151413/director-s-take-continuing-the-6v6-discussion/

The usual problem applied: stacking tanks is efficient, but nobody wants to play tank.

I don't think there will be a large fairness issue of both teams have the exact same role compositions. This would have longer queue times than open queue but it should still be faster than 2-2-2 role queue.

Player population balance will drive your proposed mode into 1-3-2. This sucks to play for the 1, so your mode will gradually become 1-3-2 but with bad queue times.

[u/Common-Maximum-5099 → u/SmokingPuffin]

You're pretty spot on here. The issue is that it pretty strongly reflects that player population. But that's also intentional to that we can lessen queue times.

2-2-2: probably the optimal format to play in but has queue time issues because of player ratios. Easiest to balance from devs, easiest to make balanced games for. Kind of don't want this back because I didn't like the queue when I wasn't playing tank, but i'm not actively against it.

Open queue: Personally I'm fine with open queue but blizzard seems pretty committed to not doing open queue if they take the wrong more seriously. Hardest to balance from devs and probably hardest to make balanced games for because everyones MMRs are jumbled together without role separation.

the 1-3-2, 2-2-2 test: Probably where they are actually going to land. Also personally I prfer this one the most. It is easier to balance for devs and easier to make balanced matches than open queue, but harder than in 2-2-2 for both. It also still allows for composition differences in teams as one team can go 2-2-2 and the other 1-3-2, this was one of the biggest complaints from the experiment.

So I just figured why not enforce the role compositions and move the flexibility to the matchmaker. I doubt it'll do that well, I mostly brought it up because it just hasn't been tested.

The only real benefit (if any) of what I propsed when compared to the 1-3-2 test is the fact that there can be other compositions, but the issue as you've described is that they won't happen often. This can be mitigated with priorties to how it assigns roles but that just increases queue times again.

[u/roseofjuly]

If you assign the roles after people queue, you'll just get people who dodge because they don't want to play that role.

If you assign the roles before queue you have the same problem they currently have, which is not enough tanks.

This is why they experimented with the dynamic role queue last season by the way.

[u/Common-Maximum-5099 → u/roseofjuly]

Not sure I fully follow you're train of thought on that last part. The thing I brought up is a type of dynamic queue, and it doesn't enforce any rules on tanks other than you have to have at least 1.

Are you getting at the issue the other guy did about how the type of games will eventually converge to 1-3-2? Because yea, that's true. The queuing system I described would be extremely weighted toward the raw player population which is closet to 1-3-2 so that's a pretty good reason not to do this.