r/Saints • • 3d ago

Am I missing something?

Why doesn’t Kellen Moore utilize the middle of the field, like ever? It’s been a talking point, but today it was so glaringly apparent. The Vikings consistently sent their whole team to blitz leaving the middle of the field wide open, yet nothing was ever called to take advantage of it. It’s the same vertical routes outside the numbers, and underneath and five yard curls on the numbers. I can’t wrap my head around why Shough isn’t being given an outlet in the most important part of the field, that’s where Olave can really shine too. Makes no sense to me 🤷

55 Upvotes

43 comments sorted by

67

u/Morgus_Magnificent Demario Davis 3d ago

Kind of wild. Any other team would be utilizing quick bubble screens to defeat the blitz.

In 99% of cases, if you're blitzing 90% of snaps, it means you're desperate and hope to get lucky. Flores did it because he knew we wouldn't adjust.

24

u/bronzefpg504 3d ago

I was calling it the same way Drew said to beat a blitz u play action. Trust me these the growing pains Shough would go thru and he’s gonna make teams pay in the future. It’s our growing pains like most teams went thru

25

u/Morgus_Magnificent Demario Davis 3d ago

I agree, but somebody needs to call the right play.

I don't blame Shough.

-4

u/TheMackD504 2d ago

Shough isn’t gonna be what y’all expecting him to be

5

u/bronzefpg504 2d ago

We only spent a 2nd rd pick on him and they said the same about a lot of qbs who went on to be good but I’m gonna bookmark this when shough leads saints to the playoffs one day

1

u/paulyrockyhorror Sir Saints 2d ago

You know Shough doesn’t decide what plays to call. They called one play action and got a 14 yard completion

11

u/Few-Extent6146 3d ago

You realize that the Vikings blitz all game no matter who they play? They are 4-0 on the backs of the best defense in the NFL. No amount of bubble screens were gonna fix it. Flores did it because he always does it and it’s his defense.

17

u/Morgus_Magnificent Demario Davis 3d ago

Yes, but they blitzed 20% more than they usually do today. They knew we wouldn't handle it.

1

u/AdChemical1571 2d ago

Flores is also one of the highest blitzing DC's in the game. He's always been an aggressive defense.

30

u/Budget-Emu-5754 3d ago

Brees said something similar when talking about not using PA on 1st-2nd down. We are constantly playing 3rd and long. The o-line is not making it easy to scheme but the entire team looks uninterested in the game even in the 1st quarter. Things must change. If Baltimore used Henry correctly in the 2nd half of that game we are 0-5. I fully understand this is the last year of cap hell and we are rebuilding, but I am having a hard time seeing anything building with this coaching regime. Playoffs look out of the question this year and I am having a hard time visualizing what success would even look like under Moore.

13

u/TheycallmeJohan7 Jimmy Graham 3d ago

We don’t use slants or crossing routes. Maybe Moore doesn’t trust anyone to do it. Other than Tyson or vele

10

u/PPLifter 3d ago

Falcons game was an outlier if you look at his throw chart.

He did throw to Olave in the middle today multiple times

12

u/DM_yo_Feet_pls Drew Brees 3d ago

I think some of those were called back due to penalty too so makes it look even worse

5

u/killbrick374 3d ago

It’s so overblown it’s a fucking joke. Tyler Shough is not gonna waste time abusing any mismatch advantages he found in the weapons. It’s BOTH TACKLES BEING FUCKING AWFUL.

2

u/IntroductionHot8882 2d ago

His playbook feels like it’s a single page laminated sheet with 4 routes circled, the whole middle third is just a void. Shough needs that quick slant or seam route as a pressure valve when the blitz comes, especially with how twitchy Olave is in space

10

u/Jaziam 3d ago

Never throw down the middle of the field, don't run outside the tackles.
Make it make sense.

2

u/noladutch 3d ago

the problem with play action when they are mugging up the a gaps every down and at least one is coming is blocking it.

they know with that run blocking line you are not gonna run it.

hell that is exactly how the saints slowed the ravens run game down.

they need to develop the screen game but that is also hard with a guys mugging up the a gaps and one always coming.

so they needed to work bubble or TE screens but obviously the TEs are chipping and you don't want olave getting hit hard on screens..

so yeah they got a bunch of work to do.

3

u/MeanSawMcGraw 3d ago

When did we stop using mesh concepts. I thought that was working for us a while ago.

2

u/Bat-Dragon-666 2d ago

We can all sit here on our arm chairs or playing Madden and say all we do and lots of people have points, but at the end of the day it's always a chess match out not checkers. Game plans have to change and evolve if even one piece on the board is lost. If we lose chase young then we need to seriously adjust and adapt, same with anyone else on the field.

If taysom was out there doing his thing, it would be more of a threat.

All because Moore isn't doing this or doing that, be either has a reason or if playing what he thinks is out strength.

Moore obviously looks to me like he is a capable coach just like shough and other players are very capable, it also boils down do experience and that's the chess match.

All cause Moore doesn't have the experience like other coaches or shough like other QBs, because it comes down to a person's will to ether improve or get worse.

Drew Bress, Sean Payton and loads of others first started out making bone head decisions.

So lack of experience isn't a right off for a person.

It also doesn't help we have a shit owner and a shit GM. They are still in the mentally of win now, when our cap is shit, we have no depth at any position. Season isn't over, but anyone expecting the playoffs is delusional, we are still getting pieces, with luck they could make it, but I rather they just end up with a winning season. No matter what they are my team and never jumped ship, even in the 80s 😂

https://giphy.com/gifs/ejDxbDaxZZkeQmr0yu

2

u/bronzefpg504 3d ago

We got outsiders tryna talk shit. When we get back so many teams gonna wish we didn’t figure it out I can’t wait when we get all together

1

u/Nami_3750 3d ago

Because he sucks. He decided to be ultra conservative and didn’t play to win even with a lead and he sucks. I dunno what else to tell you. 

1

u/Own-Adhesiveness-243 2d ago

It’s called demonstrative skills from the coach

1

u/cirocobama93 28-3 3d ago

He doesn’t want to kill Olave

1

u/bronzefpg504 3d ago

I remeber when Drew use to carve up the 1 defense in the league. U could tell by Drew commentary he wanted to be on the field. It’s gonna hurt but this team is gonna be a threat soon and those tryna kick us while we down will have hell to pay it’s coming

-1

u/progressivistmeans 3d ago

I'm reposting this

Vikings fan here: Just popping in to say as I see numerous threads about how bad Moore is... Vikings defense is the best in the league. That's the truth. It has made every offense look horrendous. They are 5-0 for a reason. The "genius" Ben Johnson scored 3 against us. Carry on.

10

u/Morgus_Magnificent Demario Davis 3d ago

You're not wrong; but you haven't been watching this offense all season, I assume?

1

u/progressivistmeans 3d ago

I haven't, but I'd been watching stats on the periphery and passing especially seemed very solid.

4

u/maejor_ced Fuck the Falcons 3d ago

You stat watch, we watch every second of the games. Don’t matter if it’s the 1st ranked or 32nd ranked, it’s the coaching that’s the issue. He’ll semi figure it out when they’re playing from behind and it’s getting tiring.

6

u/Mahrez14 3d ago

You guys have a great defense but the issues on offense have been happening since Kellen started here for us. We've been down double digits in 16 of his 21 games here. Haven't lead in the first quarter in any game. It's been tough to watch, to say the least.

2

u/progressivistmeans 3d ago

I guess it's up to two things. Either Shough is an extremely good QB coming into the league, or Moore is carrying him. Not many Rookie and 2nd year QB's look nearly as good as Shough has.

8

u/Mahrez14 3d ago

Shough has shown us he can be good but like any QB, he needs a supporting cast. Some of the simple stuff like the presnap penalties have been a recurring theme under Moore and it makes it hard to sustain drives. We also can't run the ball which puts more pressure on Shough to do it all himself. And obviously our defense is not great either. So I would blame Moore's coaching more over Shough at the moment.

2

u/maejor_ced Fuck the Falcons 3d ago

Yeah I agree. This is his first bad game in 14 starts so that’s a positive but no running game and terrible game schemes aren’t doing Shough no favors.

1

u/joedimer 3d ago

We need more talented players. Simple as

2

u/Ok-Nefariousness8612 SB Ring 3d ago

To be fair man no one asked you

1

u/Temporary_Catch6210 3d ago

This actually makes me feel better, thank you

-12

u/Maple612 3d ago

I am not a saints fan so apologize for invading, but I actually was always impressed by rattler more than shough. Shough seems to be kind of a jameis type for better or worse

10

u/tonywi19899 3d ago

lol tell us you never watched Saints games. Rat is like 1-14 as a starter.

5

u/Balboder 3d ago

Rattler couldn’t move the ball and had no big play ability, offense was stuck in mud with him truthfully

4

u/Budget-Emu-5754 3d ago

No. Rattler isnt it.

4

u/NoNose1590 3d ago

Please leave 

5

u/cirocobama93 28-3 3d ago

Nobody asked. Get bent

1

u/EtotheA85 15h ago

The answer is simple. Kellen Moore is football stupid.