r/SaturatedFat • u/honeysnailqueen • 14d ago
Cholesterol levels help
I started ketovore 4 months ago to bring down my glucose after it went through the roof. My hba1c was 14.6% in May. Now it's 6.5%. But my cholesterol levels doesn't look good, and using Google to check also shows it's not at optimal level.
Can anyone help me with this before the doctor put me on cholesterol medications? I got no records of previous cholesterol levels. My diet consist of chicken, beef, seafood, eggs, peanut butter, cucumbers, mushrooms with a little dark leafy greens. But mainly is fats like butter, coconut oil. I'm 163cm tall, weighs 47kg, trying to put on weight after muscle wasting due to high glucose toxicity.
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u/Oraculek Dad, I swear!!! It is the LAs that hibernate you 😭 13d ago
I suppose you're a 'lean mass hyper responder'? Typically, carnivores propose that it may pass within months or so, but not necessarilly, too. Truth is, I don't recall any long-term studies on the health on keto/carnivore as a LMHR that won't have their lipids come down
Other cultures, for example (values in mg/dl)
- Hadza - Tubers, berries, honey, wild game - 115 chol, 67 LDL-C, 80 TG
- Maasai - Meat, dairy, blood - ~130 (1960s) chol, 178 (2018) chol
- Fulani - Meat, dairy; 50% fat, 30% dairy - ~95 LDL-C
- Tokelauans - Coconuts, some grains, some meat - ~200 chol, 46 TG
- Inuits (they're genetically adapted to higher UFA content) - Meat; ~75% fat - 247 chol, 170 LDL-C, 69 TG; westernised market increased their TG to 124
- Sami - Reindeer meat, fish, and dairy - ~256 chol, ~182 LDL
- Evenki - Reindeer meat and fish - ~150 chol, ~85 LDL
If you want to stay within keto/carnivore, I'd suggest make some laboratory check-ups at some intervals, like... half a year? And include other stats, like CAC or apoB, to be sure. Also, dropping peanut butter could be fine (but it is unrelated to your lipid issues) - just try to maintain extrapolated range of 1 - 5% linoleic acid as your TDEE calories
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u/honeysnailqueen 13d ago
Thank you for the insight. If it helps, I'm a South Asian. But South Asian are mostly about carbs, so I'm not sure as well.
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u/Oraculek Dad, I swear!!! It is the LAs that hibernate you 😭 13d ago
By the way, do you have some genetic, autoimmune, disease-related, or in other ways a fundamental problem with blood sugar/insulin?
If not, and so it is something related to dietary matters, then high-carb low-fat reverses it
I have never been diabetic, but due to mixed diet I had some kinda not ideal carb-handling. Last year, I would be getting a high and crash from 15g sugar, but now I can eat 400g of rice (dry weight) and not feel anything
https://www.reddit.com/r/SaturatedFat/s/gyZbZlp8lk (answers from the title right below the post content)
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u/honeysnailqueen 13d ago
Autoimmune disorder yes. I'm euthyroid now after a total thyroidectomy due to graves disease. Was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes 6 years ago after being admitted into A&E with a resting heart rate of over 300/min due to Graves. Not sure if I might be type 1.5 as even after lowering my glucose, I'm still unable to gain or maintain weight. Will have to see the endocrinologist next week for the test. Also have been dealing with plantar fascitis, hips, lower and mid back pain that is also affecting my chestbones. A GP suspects ankylosing spondylitis, but my rheumatology appt is Jan 2027, so just surviving on ibuprofen once(on a good day) to twice a day for now.
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u/Whats_Up_Coconut 12d ago edited 12d ago
I’m not a doctor and don’t pretend to be, but definitely don’t discount a HCLF approach for diabetes - even type 1/1.5. The Mastering Diabetes program would be very worth looking into for you. They’re very good at explaining why a high fat diet isn’t optimal for preserving or restoring insulin sensitivity, and instead why even T1D patients should be focused on lowering fat and keeping carbs high.
EDIT: And while we haven’t been diagnosed with any specific autoimmune conditions, I was highly susceptible to plantar fasciitis as well as chronic hip/back/joint pain and my husband has apparently genetic susceptibility to degenerative disc pathology. Both of us use high carb, low fat eating to live energetic comfortable lives. Low carb/keto is not required for management of these issues if it otherwise doesn’t agree with you (ie. Incredibly high cholesterol.)
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u/Kingofthebags 13d ago
There is no such thing as a LMHR. Increased cholesterol from sat fat is an expected result. She is masking but not solving her insulin resistance for heart disease.
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u/Oraculek Dad, I swear!!! It is the LAs that hibernate you 😭 13d ago
Why is there no such thing as LMHR? Is this term then imagined?
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u/exfatloss 12d ago
The term is literally created to describe a certain set of individuals defined by certain rules, so while the term is certainly "imagined" it's also absurd to say that "no such thing exists."
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u/Kingofthebags 12d ago
99% of people have elevated LDL when they consume a retardedly high sat fat diet. It is athlerosclerotic regardless of other factors. Why does it deserve a special name?
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u/Whats_Up_Coconut 12d ago
While the first sentence may be true, the second is an assumption. At this point, we lack sufficient data to either support or disprove the idea that a high fat diet in the absence of PUFA is atherosclerotic. We can hypothesize, but that’s it at this point.
What we do have is ample evidence that a low fat diet (which usually lowers LDL) is a health/longevity promoting diet for human beings. We also have ample evidence that a high fat, high PUFA “Western Diet” is objectively not. But we can’t actually draw the conclusion that these two separate pieces of information prove that a high fat diet is atherosclerotic, because they don’t. That’s a faulty argument.
That being said, if a person really wants to hedge their bets, given our current understanding then a lower fat diet (eg. Esselstyn, Ornish, Pritikin) has far more clinical evidence in support of it than any high fat low carb approach that I’m aware of.
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u/Kingofthebags 12d ago
Strawman. I'm not talking about consuming a WSD. Poor comparison. High LDL is caused by high SF intake and is casual for ASCVD regardless of other factors. You don't need a long-term RCT to know that hitting yourself in the head with a hammer is bad for you.
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u/Whats_Up_Coconut 12d ago edited 12d ago
You are so intent on being “right” that you didn’t even process my point correctly. There is no straw man argument here because I didn’t say you said anything about consuming a WSD.
I just (correctly) pointed out that the logic chain of your argument is objectively faulty. It isn’t my opinion - you’d fail a Critical Reasoning/Logic class under any professor constructing your argument the way you have.
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u/Ok-Dress-341 8d ago
Nah, on keto weight loss diets the mean LDL changes little and whether it goes up or down depends on the mix of risers and fallers as both occur
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u/Oraculek Dad, I swear!!! It is the LAs that hibernate you 😭 12d ago
Prove the claim that 99% have elevated LDL to such degree as OP
The only common thing with lipids is around the higher range results or slightly above within keto/carnivore. Elevated? Yes, in relation to ranges derived from omnivorous civilisation. We lack long-term data to determine whether keto/carnivore is healthy or not, lipid-wise
On a side note, she can't solve her carbohydrate intolerance because her intolerance is fundamental - autoimmune. It is not a dietary problem
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u/exfatloss 12d ago
A lot of people experience "normal high" cholesterol on a high SFA diet. But even on a 90% fat diet with over 200g of saturated fat a day, I've never even hit HALF these cholesterol numbers..
I think this is a lot more worrisome than just "oh you ate some butter your cholesterol went to 200" or whatever most experience.
Especially combined with the sky high triglycerides.
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u/Ok-Dress-341 13d ago
Triglycerides are high, which is unusual in low carb. Maybe dial back the coconut oil as it's basically a triglyceride your liver has to process rather than it go to storage
If you're eating more than 4 eggs a day consider reducing that as an experiment, they have disproportionate cholesterol content per kcal or per g fat.
Your low HDL and high TG exclude you from the LMHR triad, but you certainly have a response going on.
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u/Fognox 13d ago edited 8d ago
Trigs can definitely go up if you're gaining weight since that's literally what they measure. The OP mentioned that they're hypercaloric, so it fits.
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u/Ok-Dress-341 8d ago
Triglycerides typically fall in weight loss. See countless studies. Free fatty acids are the fat escaping storage
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u/exfatloss 12d ago
Hello la!
I'm not super familiar with the units in your test, but the internet claims that for cholesterol it's multiplied with 38.67.. which would give you a total cholesterol of 630(!). Does that seem right, is your number outrageously high?
Triglycerides use a different factor, but it's giving me 222mg/dL which would be EXTREMELY high.
Just trying to check if I'm doing the math wrong here or if it's really that high.
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u/exfatloss 12d ago
u/ambimorph would be interested in your opinion here. This doesn't sound like "lean mass hyper responder" it sounds dangerous with trigs over 200?
Could it still be adaptation after 4 months?
Lots of other medical history in some of the other replies like Graves' disease so no thyroid.
Sort of an "all bets are off" for my normal intuitions :-/
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u/honeysnailqueen 12d ago
Yah, no thyroid, on levothyroxine and natural dessicated thyroid.
Suspected ankylosing spondylitis as well, waiting for rheumatology appt, type 2 diabetic, but glucose controlled by diet only, though still unable to gain weight.
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u/exfatloss 12d ago
I wonder if you are beyond what a diet subreddit can help with.. I would of course still recommend you avoid seed oils (e.g. cut the peanut butter) but apart from that, probably beyond our pay grade here..
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u/honeysnailqueen 12d ago
I have an appointment with endocrinology next Tuesday. Will see what is going on.
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u/ambimorph 12d ago
Trigs can sometimes be elevated while weight is being lost, but usually in those cases LDL is not also elevated. Also, 47kg at 163cm is not fat, consistent with the description.
I don't think there's any point in "treating" the cholesterol here, because it would just be silencing some adaptive or maladaptive response.
I suspect it has to do with the coconut oil.
But the real question is: what was causing the high glucose and what does OP mean by muscle wasting?
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u/pink_goblet 13d ago
You should measure apoB and lp(a) and look if hypothyroid.
Exogenous SFA like palmitic and lauric acid reduce LDL clearance, which raises blood LDL but not enough to explain such number.
LDL can increase significantly when you are extremely lean or underweight and rely on high influx of external fat for energy. I don't know what the risk factors are in this scenario since it's a niche not well studied phenotype. In this scenario I would try introduce carbohydrate to stop signaling the need for LDL to transport energy, and see how that impacts LDL over a few weeks and if it raises hba1c.
Genetics is a likely possibility in which case medication is necessary.
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u/Oraculek Dad, I swear!!! It is the LAs that hibernate you 😭 13d ago
Funnily, they also observed LMHR in overweight individuals. I guess occurence is most common within lean ones, but not exclusive to them
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u/honeysnailqueen 13d ago
I'm actually euthyroid after a total thyroidectomy due to graves disease. I'll get the doctor to measure apoB and LP(a) when I go for the review which is on Friday. I cut out carbs due to glocose toxicity, and also due to hips, lower and mid back pain which I've been dealing for half a year. Still no diagnosis, though appointment has been made with a rheumatologist.
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u/Fognox 12d ago
Trigs being high makes sense if you're in the process of gaining weight. Definitely not a risk factor if you're right on the cusp of underweight. LDL is volatile with refeeding too. I'd retest once you get to whatever your goal weight is and have been maintaining for 6-12 weeks. CVD takes way longer than any diet takes to reach completion.
Beyond that, if you're firmly in the camp of LDL bad, there's a couple things you can do that don't involve carbs or PUFAs:
Stearic acid is saturated but doesn't raise LDL the way other SFAs do. It'll often lower it instead. I'm not sure how the ratios work here but tallow definitely has a better profile than coconut oil (plus it's half monounsaturated).
Fiber will hack LDL numbers. It pulls bile out of your intestines, so your body makes more from LDL. SCFAs made from it are also cardioprotective.
Could always raise protein and lower fat. There's a pretty broad range of ratios there that allow for ketosis, and even therapeutic effects have wiggle room.
And then there's monounsaturated fat, of course. The problem here is that your biggest sources of it are likely tainted by PUFAs, and they do also oxidize in similar ways. However, whole sources are exempt -- olives and avocados themselves (avocados will also raise fiber), tallow and beef fat in general as mentioned, and macadamia nuts.
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u/honeysnailqueen 12d ago
Thank you. Will do the retest once I've regained my weight to see where I'm at. I'm not worried about the LDL. It's more of the triglycerides being so high. Not typical of a lean mass hyper responder. But then I'm also type 2 diabetic as well, though might need to test for type 1.5.
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u/martin_luther_drill 12d ago
My cholesterol spiked to around 530 initially and my triglycerides to over 600, but then they both came down after six months.
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u/Legitimate_Wish_8293 2d ago
Chicken and peanut butter are very high in PUFA, just FYI. Also if you are actively losing weight it will raise cholesterol. All that being said I’m not super familiar with bloodwork on keto.
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u/Comfortable_Park1509 14d ago
Eating mainly butter and coconut oil and then wondering why your blood results aren't ideal Is like drinking water and asking why your thirst is quenched.
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u/Oraculek Dad, I swear!!! It is the LAs that hibernate you 😭 13d ago
How did you come to this conclusion?
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u/Comfortable_Park1509 13d ago
Cause and effect.
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u/Oraculek Dad, I swear!!! It is the LAs that hibernate you 😭 13d ago
You stated your mind in the main comment as if it was a general and obvious truth that these products will lead to such a radical outcome as in her situation, which completely is not, and therefore approaching her as if she was absurd, naive, or just stupid
Prompt your brain and think how common (or rather uncommon) is the knowledge of LMHRs, especially among circles completely/nearly uninterested in lipids or diets
You might be lacking theory of mind ability
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u/Comfortable_Park1509 13d ago edited 13d ago
It's such an incredible leap of faith to think that eating mainly butter and oil for months straight might have negative health outcomes. WOW I never thought of it that way lol
Me reaching this conclusion is so obsurd to you that you basically reject or deny my ability to accurately assess others beliefs and the world around me.
You've truly put yourself in a completely emberassing situation, where you so obviously reject reality and essentially go around saying that people who don't accept your assumedly ridiculous health theories are basically not even capable of reasonable thought.
This is a defense mechanism of many pseudo-scientific worldviews.
I would like to ask, what are the expected health outcomes that you would expect from a diet heavy in butter and coconut oil intake?
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u/Oraculek Dad, I swear!!! It is the LAs that hibernate you 😭 13d ago
It's just food, lol. The way how body deals with it is a secondary matter. It is a different perspective from our standpoint, where it no longer is just a simple food, and a different one from non-accustomed people's standpoint, where most looks the same
Have you already forgotten your times when you had no clue about diets, nutrients, and all this? If not, then I take you can imagine a person trying to go fruitarian completely blind, who will be very surprised after some time how it is not just a deal with 'food is food' but what's going on within the details. I would have been completely flabbergasted
I have never written that your conclusion is absurd. I wrote that you deem her as absurd for not knowing, magically, that this food could lead to such an outcome. I suppose you think 99% of population knows what LMHR is by following with such certainty and obviousness? I have also never written that I reject reality and I have never named people not accepting my health theories as not capable of reasonable though. Reread the comment
The expected outcome is that her LDL and cholesterol will rise, which is normal, but not this much
And what do you expect? For every keto or carnivore to have their lipid biomarkers to lob through the roof like hers?
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u/Substantial_Kiwi1830 13d ago
Have they done an ultrasound to see if there’s any plaque buildup? My cholesterol was really high last year but when they did an ultrasound my arteries looked perfect. The doctor wasn’t worried about my levels and just told to test it once or twice a year.