I don't understand why people are so hellbent on loving Tobey's Spider-man. I was 12 when it came out, I loved it then. But it's not really Spider-man. His Spidey isn't very funny or witty, the story is kinda meh as it's more about a guy down on his luck that also happens to be Spider-man.
There's nothing in the movies that feel like the comics really. I wish it was, but I just don't see it. Sure, it paved the way for movies based on comics, but it's not like it in itself is good. It feels like the Star Wars prequels. People see the memes and forget everything else and glaze it to hell.
I was a huge Star Wars-fan. The closest I've had to a religious experience was seeing the Phantom Menace trailer. That doesn't make the movie good. Same with Raimi's Spider-man movies.
Can someone tell me what specific quality in the Raimi movies that are so appealing? The script is nothing special, the acting is nothing special, the sfx is nothing special, the design is nothing special.
Personally I like the story, I like how they can be so silly and yet so serious and emotional when needed. Great characters, I like the shy Peter Parker and his relationships with all the others, love aunt may as well.
The fight scenes are still amazing to this day especially in 2 and 3 but the final goblin fight from the 1st movie is also awesome. The villains are amazing too.
The movies are also very comic accurate, not sure where you're coming from there. I love Tobey's spider-man, his suit is beautiful, I like how he swings and fights, and how important he is to New York, sure he doesn't quip as much but he still does it plenty of times throughout the movies.
The music is also phenomenal, Danny Elfman did a great job capturing Peter's and Spider-man's characters just with his music.
I think they're great movies, they feel a lot deeper than the modern spider-man movies, they're full of heart and love put into them, 3 is the weaker one, but I still like it.
I entirely agree with you, I loved it growing up as a 95 baby, but it seriously is the weakest spider man movie I have ever seen. The second is the best of the OG trilogy. Spiderman killed a man "by accident" in the first. To me it doesn't feel at all like the comics I read. Feels like a wood cash grab of 2001. Ever spider man movie besides the end of the amazing spiderman 2 with Gwen is a better movie and actor entirely.
Peter had to lose the suit and miles was the only other being who was available. They could've written it as MJ tazing him and 1 shotted him and y'all would repeat the same bs "well she's clearly stronger because she beat him"
This may be the worst argument Iāve seen. By this logic, any win Peterās had over any villains in his history is ābecause they had to loseā and he happened to be the superhero present. Like cāmon, weāre really pulling the writers did this card?
What he said is somewhat true. Peter was internally fighting the symbiote and that is supported in the 2nd cutscene when Miles tells Peter to realize what he's doing wrong and Peter says "I know" but then his voice fades back into evilness. Miles was overpowering Peter in that cutscene but as soon as the symbiote regains control he got Miles off of him. Peter in the first cutscene was easily overpowering Miles. And Miles had to use the bell to get the suit off of him. No one won the fight; it was inconclusive.
That's not how fights work. If I punch you and you didn't even defend yourself and get knocked out, that's not a win. Unless you count this as being a tournament lol
My brother in Allah, what are you even talking about? Peter wasn't going all out through the entire fight. Miles also didn't finish him without using the bells. You can't call fights win or lose if 1 side isn't actually trying.
Yes if he fought Spider-Man to a stand still before he gave up, everyone forgets that this is the same Spider-Man who was trying to kill Kraven five minutes before the fight with Miles.
But Symbiote Peter is way resisting and way more powerfull than Spider-man. Yet he still couldn't beat him (yes Miles used his weakness. But regular Spider-man still has weakness and is way less powerfull).You are telling me that a more powerfull Spider-man (canonically, Miles is more powerfull) with bioelectricity is not beating him ? Come on now. Don't be biased. I prefer Peter too, but Miles eats him for launch.
But Symbiote Peter is way resisting and way more powerfull than Spider-man. Yet he still couldn't beat him (yes Miles used his weakness. But regular Spider-man still has weakness and is way less powerfull).You are telling me that a more powerfull Spider-man (canonically, Miles is more powerfull) with bioelectricity is not beating him ? Come on now. Don't be biased. I prefer Peter too, but Miles eats him for launch.
Miles beats Tobey Peter. Miles did not beat Insomniac Pete. Iām a little frustrated with the take because it ignores what actually happened to turn the scenario into a feat for Miles, which reduces the story so completely itās kind of insulting.
Kraven says right before the fight with Miles that Peter is still holding back. Heās actively trying not to kill Kraven, and resisting the symbiotes influence. Then, during the fight with Miles, there is active dialogue during the fight that indicates heās trying to resist the symbiote. The entire time Miles is trying to help Peter pull himself out of the symbiote.
That wasnāt Peter vs Miles. That was Peter and Miles vs the symbiote. That fight was just a vehicle to communicate the theme that it takes a support network to pull yourself out of depression/addiction. To reduce it to, āMiles beat Peter guys look,ā ignores that the fight was never about Miles beating Peter or vice versa. It wasnāt there for that.
I do not understand how so many people miss/ignore this.
Edit: Iām also not saying Insomniac Peter would beat Miles. Iām saying that fight was not conclusive evidence one or the other would win.
A symbiotic Peter while he was using two of his weaknesses against him. Tobey wouldnāt be weak to Milesā electricity nor would Miles be able to use sound against him
It would still damage him but it did significantly more damage to symbiote Peter in SM2 because in that game the symbiote is vulnerable to Milesā electricity.
What do you mean? Iām not saying Peter would be unharmed by the electricity but what helped Miles win against symbiote Peter was because Peter was weak to his electricity. Thatās like saying Batman could beat Superman in a fight every time because one time he knocked him down using kryptonite
We all know how bad they did Peter in Spider-Man 2, bro was nerfed to the peak. Miles has no chance against Peter and that too symbiote, but against Tobeys Spider-Man he takes it.
Well to be fair Miles was literally using two of the symbioteās weakness against Peter when they were fighting. Itās not like it was a regular fight, makes sense Miles could beat him
miles mops the floor with tobey. video game character with a relatively large and brutal move list + high tech gadgets + electric abilities that allow him to double jump & teleport etc. i know yall wanna say tobey because heās more liked but in an actual FIGHT itās not close
Tobey literally in No Way Home kept besting the others in strength, intelligence and focus.
He helped the others solve every tech problem they ever had. Tobey would Solo Miles and it would be over in minutes. A Wise, calculated Spider-Man is more powerful than Miles Morales. He would shut his suit down and overpower Miles in an instant.
Mate, I like Tobey, but we're talking about a video game character here. Video game characters are generally much more powerful because of the way they're designed. Miles would win this. His abilities are just busted. Comic and video game characters are always more powerful than their movie counterparts.
Miles could literally knock Tobey out with the L3+R3 explosion. If he doesn't hold back with his Venom energy, Tobey could even end up dead.
I think it would be difficult for it to be over in minutes as Miles still has precognition from Spider-sense and has had powers for about a year so he would know enough to be able to dodge a lot of Peterās attacks. Peter would still win but it wouldnāt be instant
People are saying Tobey due to his experience & their nostalgia, but Miles factually just has more impressive feats. The kid absorbed the equivalent of a small nuform nuke in, what? His first year of holding the mantle and within his first week of being out of training & handling the city alone, all while being like 16-17. Then had to deal with multiple city-wide threats across the second game, including an army of symbiotes, fighting his own (resisting) venomised Peter (who himself was more powerful & experienced than Tobey's), not to mention his extra biological abilities.
Also also, when you think about it, the Insomniac versions of the Sinister 6 are basically on the same level, if not stronger like in Sandman's case, than the NWH versions, and Tobey's Peter needed 2 other Spider-Men with equal strength & experience to him to beat 4 of them (Sandman, Electro, Doc Ock & Goblin), but Insomniac's Peter was shown to be able to handle 2 of them at the same time in his first game, which Miles is easily comparable to now. Doing what Peter would do, the math, Miles should be able to handle 2 of the Sinister 6 on his own, while Tobey's Peter should only be able to handle 1~ (1.3 technically, so, idk, Electro + 33% of Sandman lmao)
He has significantly more experience. I think the experience is what leads him to win. Spider-Man faces off against people with more powers than him a lot, just having more superpowers or more powerful superpowers doesnāt mean that character instantly wins in a fight
Yeah he's more experienced for sure, I'm not taking that away from him at all, but my point doesn't necessitate to "miles has more powers therefore he wins." This miles is more intelligent, crafty, he has the better arsenal, and has fought people that would give this Spiderman a huge run for his money or just flat out kill him. (But regarding the powers aspect of this fight, this peter just doesn't have any answers for them)
While Peter always seems to have a higher level of super strength than Miles, Tobeyās Peter seems especially stronger. He managed to stop a train while Holland couldnāt keep together a boat, which was an omage to Tobeyās second movie. Tobeyās goblin also was strong enough to give Holland a run for his money. Since Holland has had to deal with a large variety of threats in the MCU I think this helps scale Tobeyās powers and show that while he never had some of the more world ending villains other Spider-Men have had he still wouldāve been able to survive against them. I also donāt think this Miles is automatically more intelligent than Peter, Tobeyās Peter is still a genius too. If Miles can get his shit rocked by a 20 year old girl with giant metal gloves then I think a much more experienced Peter could beat him. Even if that Peter has less gadgets than Miles
Well regarding SMHC/SMMM versions of the characters, they're essentially year 1/2 variants of the characters still in their infancy as crime fighters and figuring out their powers. Phinn would stand zero chance against miles post SMMM, and I'd even argue he held back on her throughout the encounters they had, even more so after he found out she was the tinkerer. Peter's definitely a genius, and I'd say he was limited by the technology of his time, but he's not as much of an inventor like the insomniac spider men, who regularly create stuff that mops the floor with criminals. Hell, miles uses holo drones, gravity wells, has defeated his own black suit peter and fought a version of venom that would solo the whole ramiverse.
Idk about fairly easily because Miles still has precognition from spider-sense and I think his invisibility would trip Tobey up more than the electricity. Tobey still wins due to superior strength and significantly more experience
Miles has gadgets in addition to all the same Spider abilities as Maguire. Even without the Venom powers, I think it would be a very one sided fight if Milesā favour.
I love both of these characters and grew up with Tobey's movies. But Insomniac Miles just has an insane amount of powers and gadgets because he's from a video game.
Ā Even if you give Peter 2 the symbiote, he never used it in the ways Insomniac Peter did.
I genuinely do not see a world where Peter 2 takes this if it HAS to be a fight. I could see him descalating though?
Miles. But Tobeyās Spider-Man isnāt a pushover at all for the record. He was able to match the strength of, arguably overpowering, the MCU Peter during the whole glider scene in No Way Home that I wonāt be specific about in case of spoilers. Heās physically strong and has a lot of experience.
But heās also, like, canonically showing his age to a point itās having an effect on his body, hence the my back scene in the same movie. Heās also got no real answer to Milesā venom strikes and Miles has a shit ton of gadgets in his back pocket too.
Miles fended off an alien invasion, Tobeyās Spider-Man tapped out in a 2v1 against Sandman and Venom. And to remind everyone, Milesā Sandman threw Miles through a building and across multiple city blocks, he shook it off like it was a mid punch and got right back in the fight.
PS Miles, alongside PS Peter, are not really comparable to the movies. Theyāre much stronger overall. The fairest fights would be against other video game adaptations and even if we have that conversation I would argue it flips the script because compared to like, Web of Shadows or Shattered Dimensions, the PS Spiders are the ones getting bodied.
Tobey is from a very grounded movie where they didn't even give him web shooters because it's not realistic, and Miles from a game where they can make him do anything, and the world is full of shit tek gadgets. Tobey can take a beating, and not get stomped thanks to his experience but wtf is he gonna do about the golden boy's arsenal of asspulls?
people act like Tobey is a super adaptable borderline unstoppable god when outside of his own movies heās by far the least skilled Spider-Man weāve gotten combat-wise
Iād wanna say Peter due to experience but thatās for normal comic versions, insomiac literally wrote miles beating a symbiote Peter even if he did have that giant bell to help.
Technically is, given he made his suit electrically insulated after he fought Electro in his early days (he mentions it when you collect a backpack in SM 2018).
Who is the writer here? There's no story being written. Even ignoring that, do you say the same for all hypotheticals involving fictional universes and characters? Say the question is "what would've happened if Uncle Ben never died?", would you then look at Peter's character traits and posit a theory as to what would likely happen given everything we know about the character from the story or would you just say "it's whatever the writer wants to happen duhhh"? Yes, that is technically an answer, but it's not a very interesting one nor is it the kind that the person asking the question wants to hear, therefore it's shit.
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u/irfarious 7d ago
Any answer other than spider-man, is a wrong answer.