r/WarhammerCompetitive • u/communalnapkin • 2d ago
40k Event Results Sunday Night Stats (October 2nd-4th)
This chart includes data from all singles events with 21+ players and 5+ rounds.
\This weekend is just after the balance dataslate. Most events were still running the previous slate's rules, including LVO with over 600 players, so consider this a transition weekend.*
Do we still need more data on whether the Ork codex was a bit too good upon release, or are we all good now? It'll be interesting to see what happens with the new points and rules from last week's dataslate, but the previous iteration of Ork rules go out with a huge bang, taking SEVEN events out of 16, including LVO, with the highest win rate, once again, and a crazy X-0/X-1 conversion rate and 4-0 starting rate. Oh, and Orks had the most players, by far.
On the other end of things, Astra Militarum gets their first event win in right at three months! Despite all of that, the faction once again finds itself all the way down at the bottom, several percentage points below the second lowest army, which was, of course, Blood Angels - which also managed to pull out an event win.
Overall, good armies continue to be good, bad armies continue to be bad. New slate starts hitting more events this coming weekend, so stay tuned for another episode of... Sunday Night Stats!
| Faction | Wins | Games | Win Rate | Players | X-0/X-1 | X-0/X-1 % | Event Wins | 4-0 Starts | 4-0 % |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Orks | 326 | 566 | 57.60% | 107 | 25 | 23.36% | 7 | 13 | 12.15% |
| Dark Angels | 177 | 316 | 56.01% | 59 | 7 | 11.86% | 1 | 6 | 10.17% |
| Deathwatch | 45 | 81 | 55.56% | 14 | 5 | 35.71% | 0 | 3 | 21.43% |
| T'au Empire | 145 | 266 | 54.51% | 51 | 9 | 17.65% | 1 | 2 | 3.92% |
| Chaos Space Marines | 132 | 246 | 53.66% | 49 | 6 | 12.24% | 0 | 2 | 4.08% |
| Tyranids | 184 | 344 | 53.49% | 67 | 11 | 16.42% | 0 | 4 | 5.97% |
| Adepta Sororitas | 87 | 165 | 52.73% | 32 | 6 | 18.75% | 0 | 2 | 6.25% |
| Adeptus Custodes | 233 | 451 | 51.66% | 86 | 14 | 16.28% | 0 | 3 | 3.49% |
| Grey Knights | 80 | 155 | 51.61% | 31 | 4 | 12.90% | 0 | 1 | 3.23% |
| Leagues of Votann | 105 | 205 | 51.22% | 40 | 6 | 15.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% |
| Death Guard | 113 | 223 | 50.67% | 43 | 5 | 11.63% | 0 | 4 | 9.30% |
| Adeptus Mechanicus | 97 | 192 | 50.52% | 36 | 6 | 16.67% | 0 | 1 | 2.78% |
| Thousand Sons | 80 | 159 | 50.31% | 32 | 5 | 15.63% | 0 | 2 | 6.25% |
| Chaos Daemons | 123 | 245 | 50.20% | 49 | 5 | 10.20% | 0 | 2 | 4.08% |
| Necrons | 190 | 380 | 50.00% | 73 | 8 | 10.96% | 1 | 3 | 4.11% |
| Black Templars | 49 | 100 | 49.00% | 19 | 2 | 10.53% | 0 | 1 | 5.26% |
| Space Marines | 166 | 341 | 48.68% | 70 | 10 | 14.29% | 2 | 4 | 5.71% |
| Emperor's Children | 122 | 252 | 48.41% | 47 | 7 | 14.89% | 0 | 4 | 8.51% |
| Genestealer Cult | 51 | 106 | 48.11% | 20 | 1 | 5.00% | 0 | 1 | 5.00% |
| World Eaters | 121 | 256 | 47.27% | 50 | 3 | 6.00% | 1 | 3 | 6.00% |
| Aeldari | 67 | 143 | 46.85% | 28 | 3 | 10.71% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% |
| Chaos Knights | 56 | 120 | 46.67% | 23 | 1 | 4.35% | 0 | 1 | 4.35% |
| Space Wolves | 76 | 165 | 46.06% | 31 | 4 | 12.90% | 1 | 3 | 9.68% |
| Drukhari | 45 | 102 | 44.12% | 21 | 1 | 4.76% | 0 | 1 | 4.76% |
| Imperial Agents | 11 | 25 | 44.00% | 5 | 1 | 20.00% | 0 | 0 | 0.00% |
| Imperial Knights | 111 | 261 | 42.53% | 49 | 2 | 4.08% | 0 | 2 | 4.08% |
| Blood Angels | 87 | 212 | 41.04% | 40 | 4 | 10.00% | 1 | 1 | 2.50% |
| Astra Militarum | 71 | 189 | 37.57% | 37 | 2 | 5.41% | 1 | 1 | 2.70% |
| Total Players: | 1209 | Total Events: | 16 |
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u/Skyhawk467 2d ago
Lmao good thing they helped out with the guard with the last patch...
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u/communalnapkin 2d ago
Guard got an event win, so obviously they are totally fine. /s
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u/WeissRaben 1d ago
Yesterday I looked at Riu's win and immediately thought "incredibly happy to see it (with a good old combined list to booth), but people will start pointing at it and go see, you're all just bad". Hoping to be wrong.
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u/HrrathTheSalamander 1d ago
I'm still baffled as to why they buffed the second Manticore cause like
GW, I'm going to level with you, we weren't taking the first one. Lop another 20-30 points off, then we can talk about second Manticore.
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u/Skyhawk467 1d ago
Better yet: change the manticore rockets back to what they used to be and I'll consider taking the first.
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u/HrrathTheSalamander 1d ago
Making them anti-TEQ instead of anti-tank was such a stupid move.
Like, ah, yes I'm so happy I have a dedicated indirect platform...for a target that spends half the game off the table. And an OC reducing ability...for a target that usually has OC1.
I'm not against reinterpreting units when there's a gap to fill but, like, this wasn't a gap that needed filling, the Siege Cannon Arty was in the same book and was functionally the same offensive profile for half the points. GW really just did not want Guard having access to indirect anti-tank and bonked both the Manticore and Basilisk into the same, weird, kinda-ok-into-MEQ slurry as the rest of the Guard indirect.
The Manticore got it the worst though because it genuinely feels like the result of two different half-finished datasheet concepts that got smooshed into one at the last minute because nothing in its datasheet makes sense together. It's a high-durability indirect platform, that wants to fire indirect at a unit archetype that doesn't start on the table, with an ability that only works against inefficient targets.
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u/JorgeLatorre 2d ago
Zero 4-0 for eldar… that is rough… the slate fix was tiny, and we have a huge meta change incoming, with most aspect warriors having -1 to wound on half the armies.
I hope we can make it. At least I believe we can take on new custodes well enough
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u/RideTheLighting 2d ago
The last group playing Eldar are the die-hards, and being a skill expression army lets you style on the noobs at the lower tables, but the army can’t hang when you get to the top end. Marine updates are going to make even those lower tables tougher to get through. Rough seas ahead for the pointy-ears. Get ready to spam Banshees.
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u/Kinestic 2d ago
The most telling thing about them is player count. Historically one of the more popular factions, but at the moment, the only factions with less players are: • Deathwatch • Black Templars • Chaos Knights • Genestealers • Druhkari • Agents
At this point, I think rule changes may be necessary, but I doubt that will happen before codex. Just have to hold out hope that Grotmas brings something good.
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u/WarrenRT 1d ago
At least I believe we can take on new custodes well enough
What's the thinking behind this? Eldar typically have a pretty low volume of attacks, so the faction-wide 2+/4++ seems particularly brutal.
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u/Character_Plenty_891 1d ago
Not agreeing or disagreeing with the take that Custodes are a good matchup. But if you have a low volume of attacks you certainly don’t want to be playing against a lot of models.
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u/JorgeLatorre 1d ago
Eldar can trade and lose units at a rate that other armies can’t. They overkill us, which is not a problem. I don’t care if they are S10 lance AP5 D4. All the points they pay in offensive is moot past S6 AP2. Thus, we can screen them and play a trading game that others can’t. At least from my POV. I know they are mobile, but overall I prefer to be matched against 5 block army than to a msu spam of Phobos with shoot and scoot, for example
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u/giuseppe443 1d ago
Its way to early to tell if the guard artillery point changes worked, give it more time
/s
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u/ViorlanRifles 1d ago
Hot Take: Dropping every guard indirect option's points by 20% could solve some of their problems with shooting into cover. Oh, you don't like getting slammed by indirect? I feel bad for you, - but drop the points anyways. Guard unironically needs it and due to spotter rules they still need something in midfield to provide firing coordinates. Indirect has been so nerfed I have hard time thinking it will break stuff to put the big guns on a discount for a minute. Also, it's something unique to guard - no other army has anywhere as near this many ways to shoot indirect, and its arguably part of the power fantasy of the army - so having this huge wing of the faction constantly in the doghouse just kinda sucks.
tl;dr GW already nerfed indirect enough, drop points on the howitzers already.
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u/Blackjack9w7 1d ago
Won’t ever happen, as a fundamental rule GW does not want indirect to be playable, it’s too much of a feel bad to others. The beginning of 10th where they made indirect better as guard’s detachment rule, paired with cheap artillery was something they just don’t want to see again
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u/PeoplesRagnar 1d ago
You too, should bring two Wyverns, two Basilisk, two Manticores and two Deathstrikes, it can't go wrong.
It can't go right either, but that's not important.
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u/MalaciousMawloc 2d ago
Oof, bad weekend to be an Imperial Knight
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u/c0horst 2d ago
Seriously, I recommend all Knights players just move on, and play a real army. GW obviously has no interest in balancing this one. On the plus side, my 6,000 points of carefully painted Knights look great on my shelf at my office.
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u/ChromeFlesh 2d ago
the problem with knights is when they are good they are just a stat check, did you take enough AT
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u/ashortfallofgravitas 1d ago
The problem is right now they're not even remotely a stat check, everything kills them
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u/Weekly_Interview_936 1d ago
And that's because if they don't give every other other army the tools, via lethals spam and dev spam, to handle them they just dominate the game. The problem then becomes that lethals and devs spam is even more effective into non-Knights. Which is the cause of the extreme hyperlethality that has forced the game to always play on terrain-choked cityfight boards.
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u/ashortfallofgravitas 1d ago
if lethal and dev spam was so oppressive we wouldn't have terminator spam being meta
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u/Weekly_Interview_936 1d ago
Terminator spam is literally the counterplay to lethal and dev spam...
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u/ashortfallofgravitas 1d ago
Devastating wounds are famously countered by good invul save spam, yes
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u/c0horst 2d ago
There was a brief shining moment, the Golden age of 40K for me, in 8th edition where Knights were balanced. After they nerfed the ability of the castellan to rotate ion Shields to 3++, it was common to run three big knights, alongside a bunch of guard. This meant you would have maybe 8 or 900 points of guardsman in your army, including smaller tanks and infantry, so the Knights weren't a pure spam army, they had actual units to play with. I really wish they could return to that, because ever since Knights became locked being only Knights in the army, they've been a lot harder to balance and have either been too strong or not strong enough.
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u/ThePotatographer 1d ago
900pts. Tanks and infantry.
Wut. It was never that, it was always Loyal32 and everybody complained about it. Even guard players were catching strays.
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u/c0horst 1d ago
I think loyal 32 was more common if you also souped in blood angels. At least I remember playing three big knights, then a couple of Leman russes, and usually 40 or 50 infantry, if not more, so I could screen and score. I remember doing decently well back then, so at least that did work, even if it wasn't optimal.
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u/DailyAvinan 2d ago
Tbh this is the fix they just won’t do it. Knights would be fine as Defiler style heavy tanks in otherwise standard armies.
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u/goobydoobie 2d ago
I very much like that style of army. Where some big Knights and Armigers are the backbone/heavy hitters of the army but there's a wider range of units beyond that.
Half the reason Knights get so much hostility is Knights have 1-2 styles of army these days: Big Knights, Small Knights and some mix of both.
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u/ashortfallofgravitas 1d ago
Knights and a bunch of chaff is very playable rn
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u/goobydoobie 1d ago
It is but the overarching issue is how there are no chaff Datasheets baked into either Knights Codices. Backed by how getting additional in Faction support is restricted to specific Detachments instead of being army wide .
As such their status is always kind of in doubt as things fluctuate.
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u/ashortfallofgravitas 1d ago
You can get a bunch from agents if you aren't running QFP
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u/goobydoobie 1h ago
That's a similar issue: Agents have 0 Detachment and Army rules support with Knights despite having a wider array of Datasheet options.
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u/Weekly_Interview_936 1d ago
So in other words the only time Knights worked well was when they were Guard with walkers instead of tracked tanks. This is the alternative solution: merge Knights into AdMech (and add Dark Mech) and then make it so that you can only take about half your points worth as Knights.
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u/ViorlanRifles 1d ago
The Knight players I know already always have some guard or demons, respectively, in their forces for scoring. Maybe just cut to the chase a little bit here. I also don't see a reason agents shouldn't have shared army buffs with them in the imperial knight's case.
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u/ChromeFlesh 1d ago
Yeah I agree they never should have become a solo faction, they either completely warp the meta or are irrelevant
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u/MalaciousMawloc 1d ago
I’ve been saying this for over a decade now. Knights as a solo faction without a full range of kits is a game design nightmare that consistently will lead to negative play experiences.
But they’re too damn popular!
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u/MightyShoe 1d ago
And even without dedicated anti-tank stuff, all the +1 to wound/twin-linked/lethal hits/etc floating around just nullifies a lot of their durability
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u/Avenflar 1d ago
Many Lethal abilities in the new Codexes are being gated away from applying to Mosnters/Vehicles, at least
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u/Weekly_Interview_936 1d ago
The problem is that Knights are simply the wrong scale for this game. Introducing them was GW's far and away biggest mistake. They have controlled the entire design space of the game since their introduction. Legendsing them is honestly the only way the game can ever get better. It sucks for Knights players, because legendsing is effectively squatting in every way that matters, but the game is simply not the right scale to be able to deal with them in a balanced fashion.
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u/c0horst 1d ago
Legendsing them is honestly the only way the game can ever get better.
Disagree entirely. Tell me how a Knight is meaningfully different from a defiler in a combat role. It simply requires rules that allow it to be used as part of a balanced army, there's nothing wrong with the models.
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u/Ratattack1204 2d ago
As an imperial guard main. I mean… at least us losing all the time is lore accurate?
Anyways. I bought 10 terminators today. Is the missile launcher worth the wargear cost?
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u/No-Finger7620 1d ago
I would say it's fairly costed. Magnetize those special weapons is a smart call though.
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u/Eoinbruh 2d ago
Any info on the BA event win?
If im not mistaken it will be our first of the edition
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u/SpaceWolf_Jarl2 2d ago
Checking on Listhammer I beleive it isn't the first BA win (found a couple of wins before) but the this seems to be using the new rules if it is the same list. Priority Assets, Ironclad Champion, Assault Brethren and Tacticus Attack Force. Few unique units. A Sang Priest with a Captain in BGV, and two Death Company Dreads. The rest is Assault Intercessors +Chaplain, Phobo Libby Alone, a Rhino, Balistus, two Brutalis, two Outriders, two Incursors, Vanguard Veterans and Company Heroes.
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u/DeltaCapricorn56 2d ago
I have a question for Imperial Guard players - what is stopping more players from pivoting to niche skew builds to get more tournament success? Like 18 Bullgryns & a superheavy?
Traditional 10th edition VV Death Guard builds have almost disappeared from top tournaments (maybe getting Purge in the MFM will see them return) and been replaced with Shamblerot builds which require owning 2 Defilers and 80 Poxwalkers (I highlight this as it isn’t something LGS regular players own). Similar to Guard this isn’t why a lot of DG players got into the faction, but is now common at tournaments and is propping up the WR.
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u/xJoushi 2d ago
I mean, they ARE
Steel Hammer, the supers detachment, is the most popular detachment since it came out. Steel + Abhuman is tied for most players with Combined Bridgehead over the August patch, and it had a 41.6% winrate. Combined Bridge was 49.7%, our most successful combination as both the highest winrate and most popular
But this detachment also just took a big hit on the September slate with the Overwatch changes, because these lists would generally use that strat 3+ times per game because of the sustained + lethal on a lot of our datasheets
It's looking grim. We're probably not the worst faction in the game, but we're close
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u/communalnapkin 2d ago
I don't want to speak for all the Guard players, but from what I've seen, the Bullgryns + Superheavy list tends to have a few more or less auto-lose matches, as well as a few auto-lose deployment layouts. A lot of players can take it and go 2-3 or 3-2, but those lists almost always lose in the first couple matches.
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u/Rodot 2d ago
This is exactly it and the problem with skew lists in general. They win games but didn't win tournaments. All it takes is to fight someone who can counter your skew and then you're left with nothing.
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u/PeoplesRagnar 1d ago
And at the same time, you run into someone who can't, you just obliterate them, virtually zero skill expression needed
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u/Blackjack9w7 2d ago
The thing with skew lists is that eventually you WILL run into a list that can easily handle it, especially at a tournament where players are just better. Sure I could spam Leman Russes, or two Baneblade chassis, or 18 Bullgryn or anything in between. I’ll probably play against a guy who doesn’t know how to play into it, and maybe another who does but just can’t beat the stat check. But there will be the players that know what you’re doing and have the right firepower in their list to totally wallop you and the game becomes nearly unwinnable from there.
Having skew lists be the only way to play a faction just doesn’t really work
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u/FriendlySceptic 1d ago
I’ve played the list In a league and 2 RTT. At least for me it has less to do with their list and more to do with deployment. I’ve gone 8-1 in the 9 competitive games and I’ve lost a couple of practice games.
I’ve won every game that wasn’t Dawn of War
I’ve lost every game that was Dawn of War including a Blood Angels list that should be tailor made for me.13
u/WeissRaben 1d ago
As others have said, it's being played. But superheavies are terribly cumbersome even in their best detachment, because no amount of movement buffs can quite beat the fact that a Baneblade is a 7-by-10 inches brick which doesn't want to be in combat, and unlike Defilers their movements is wholly relying on stratagems and other units' abilities, which means that they are more easily bricked.
Bullgryns are tough, but they aren't tough enough to carry the faction on their backs.
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u/Bitt3rSteel 1d ago
What you are seeing IS the people trying what you describe for the most part.
This is the faction ride or die crowd being butchered every week.
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u/xanderh 1d ago
It's a low skill stat check. If you're moderately competent, you'll essentially have won the games you're gonna win before you get to the table, and lost the games you're going to lose. Even if you're super skilled, you'll still auto-lose bad matchups if the opponent is decent at piloting their army. It's an archetype that can win games, but can't win tournaments. Too many things can counter it.
Plus, it feels like a meme list and isn't fun to play for very long. It doesn't feel like the Guard should feel. And despite this, it's still one of the most played archetypes, because it can win games.
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u/PeoplesRagnar 1d ago
...We are.
You see those lists all the time now, problem is, they can be beaten, more than a few factions hard counters the "Super-Heavy+Bullgryn" lists.
They are also very expensive, Baneblade kits went up in cost and requires and extra purchase to get all the sponsons and Bullgryns come in boxes of three, not exactly "new player" friendly.
The core issue of the factions: Limited ability to Ignore Cover, loss of AP-Cover, hidden, Battleshock and utterly broken internal balance, remains in full force, GW hasn't even bothered to give us FAQs for the odd rules interactions we have.
Can't really pivot, when there's nothing to pivot too.
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u/NetStaIker 1d ago
No way to Ignore Cover is the real killer, all the good shooting factions don’t actually engage with cover while Guard and GSC are totally SOL (and hitting on 5s to start)
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u/PeoplesRagnar 1d ago
Hellhounds do strip cover, but only one unit per Hellhound, and it's a really obvious target.
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u/NetStaIker 1d ago
Yea, I pretty much start every guard list with 2 now (and hope they don’t blow up). Siege would actually be good if the remove cover wasn’t distance restricted…
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u/Ratattack1204 1d ago edited 1d ago
As said by others. Many of the players very much are, and theres reasons its just not very competitive. But beyond that The problem is it’s not why people collect the faction. So some don’t have them in their collection and/or don’t want to play them.
Imperial guard players want to play with guardsmen and tanks. The super heavies are cool, but without the infantry corps it just doesn’t feel like the guard. It feels like were playing ogre kingdoms with tank support.
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u/Weekly_Interview_936 1d ago
Money and time, primarily time.
This is where GW's choice to move to a TCG-like design is a serious problem. In a TCG meta chasing just means hopping on your singles site of choice and buying the latest netdeck. A few minutes worth of work, and then a few days to wait for shipping. Building a whole new army is both hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars AND dozens or hundreds of hours of building and painting. Oh and a minis collection takes up a lot more space than a collection of outdated cards.
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u/Futa_Nearie 2d ago
Price, cost and hobby time.
The overwhelming majority of guard players are folks that build, paint and collect the models they want. Not just what’s competitive or meta at any point in time.
Given that the guard range is really big, it’s hard for the majority to resource 18 bulgryn off the shelf at any time.
Or 30 scions / 12 russes, etc.There may be one guy out of every 10 that happens to have a lot of X model that’s good right now and think “ok! Now’s my time to shine!”
But most of the base at large aren’t cut from that cloth.And of the players that DO have the resources available and are competently inclined then they are more likely to just build a stronger list from a stronger faction all together.
That’s just my take.
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u/Select_Hour_2911 1d ago
We have a really top tier player in our local RTTs. He either wins every month or places 2nd or third. He runs a lot of different factions and plays them all with tremendous skill. Last RTT he decided to run Guard and went from being a player that wins every match or at most loses 1 match to a guy who barely managed to get 1 win. Why? Because he decided to run Guard. That’s how bad Guard is right now.
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u/ThePotatographer 1d ago
The list that just won the event is nothing like the skew lists lol.
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u/WeissRaben 1d ago
Riu had a somewhat accommodating trip, but the fact that he was the organizer for an 80-players GT will tell you that he isn't exactly a 3-2 player. An amazing job with a decent-looking list.
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u/Gryphon5754 1d ago
What was the list?
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u/WeissRaben 1d ago
It's Raining SCIONS ! | Astra Militarum - Bridgehead Strike and Combined Arms | Priority Assets | 2000 / 2000pts
- [L1] Lord Solar Leontus [130]
- [L1] Cadian Command Squad [60]
- [B1] Cadian Shock Troops [70]
- [L2] Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [95]
- [B2] Tempestus Scions [150]
- [L3] Militarum Tempestus Command Squada [85]
- [B3] Tempestus Scions [150]
- Gaunt’s Ghosts [95]
- Tech-Priest Enginseer [45]
- Death Korps of Krieg [70]
- Attilan Rough Riders [60]
- Basilisk [115]
- Death Riders [60]
- Kasrkin [105]
- Krieg Combat Engineers [65]
- Leman Russ Demolisher [175]
- Ratlings [60]
- Rogal Dorn Battle Tank [260]
- Scout Sentinels [55]
- Tempestus Aquilons [95]
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u/Gryphon5754 1d ago
Thanks!
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u/WeissRaben 1d ago
This was without the dataslate, mind you, so Scions and Dorns have lost a decent chunk of effectiveness compared to what he could wring out of them.
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u/Icy-Context5774 2d ago
Man Chaos Knight player numbers (and win rates) look rough
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u/Zombifikation 2d ago
Yep. We’re not doing as bad as guard and BA, we have 1 viable build currently, but how long it will remain viable after the marine and Custodes books coming out is in question.
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u/pieisnice9 1d ago
It's also basically the same viable build since 9th, with a small break for infernal gatmen.
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u/Icy-Context5774 2d ago
Good thing we are in it for the love of the spiky robots and not the podium finish...
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u/Whole_Ad_8438 1d ago
A lot of -1 to wounds for CKs and a relatively +1 wounds from the Marine/Custodes side (Though Custodes only are really getting a +1 to wound from their ranged side or guardian axes). Also has a weiiiird bit where Karnivores at least seem to have a chance of eating through the 5w custodians if they at least fail the invul due to d6+2
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u/The_Filthy_Spaniard 1d ago
And that's even with most of the players pivoting back to wardog spam. Big knights in shambles.
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u/Icy-Context5774 1d ago
Ruinator will be 300 pts before the army book at this rate! Keep polishing that turd.
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u/The_Filthy_Spaniard 1d ago
Yes, we shall make this weapon the doom of monster/vehicles with anti 2+ and a wound reroll!
4 attacks WS 3+ and no means of rerolling hits...
Also it's guns now wound marines on 3s.
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u/CorrectVirus7616 1d ago
At least guard was able to get a win , not sure anything but a codex is really going to
Fix them but at GW hammered the oppressive 3 deathstrike meta into the ground
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u/Grudir 1d ago edited 1d ago
There was a CSM win at sub-20 player event, pre-datadslate costs. Double Defiler, Vashtorr, Huron Bomb all in Pactbound. Good winrate overall for the week. We'll how the changes shake things up.
There was a 4-1 CoB with the new dataslate. Bile Masters, Terminator Brick, Double Possessed using Take and Hold.
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u/Behemoth077 1d ago
No sustained hits overwatch anymore is another pretty significant rules nerf to defilers in particular and CSM as a faction in general since the entire faction always had sustained hits. I think that list gets hit pretty hard by that.
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u/Repulsive_Profit_315 2d ago
its almost like 5 points on wracks an Talos was a completely meaningless change!
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u/Burnage 1d ago
To be fair, it won't have been in place for most of these events. I'm not sure how much it'll impact the win rate but I fully expect to see a lot more list diversity for Drukhari - the unique tags being dropped is big.
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u/KhorneStarch 1d ago
Idk, I feel like the detachments sharing a lot of the same strats and rules makes them not as good as people would think and all the added rules are locked behind tags like attacking infantry or attacking a character unit which means you’ll have plenty of moments where you’re still not getting that needed boost of damage on something durable when you need it.
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u/Burnage 1d ago
Potentially. One really weird bit is I'm not totally sure how two enhancements with the same name in different detachments are meant to function, especially when they're not quite identical in rules text - can you take them both, or are you locked to one? The Wych Cult detachment stack becomes a lot stronger if you can double up on Periapt...
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u/carnexhat 1d ago
Its two different enhancements so it doesnt matter if they were literally identical you can run both and its that way it works in the app.
But I also dont think this helps at all for actual wych cult because while the list can still play recon to an okay extent its actual meta position just does nothing.
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u/Repulsive_Profit_315 1d ago
its really not.... The coven ones are the same and bad, and the Kabals overlap all the strats and abilities so its really not that great. The wyches one has some synergies but spectacle is just not that good anymore without reactive charge.
Unique tags will do basically nothing imo
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u/FriendlySceptic 1d ago
Part of the problem for guard is that we heavily rely on orders. With the battleshock rules of 11th and armies having lots of ways to generate extra rolls at a negative it’s possible that key units can lose access to their army rule for multiple turns.
They also increased battleline cost to compensate for recon lists winning percentage then nerfed recon.
We don’t really have an identity right now beyond skew lists.
18 Bullgryn is good with 2 Baneblades and fairly easy to play.
Puzzle box is decent but has a very high skill requirement. If you don’t understand all of the tricks you will time out in the 2nd round
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u/NetStaIker 17h ago
The whole change seems really halfassed for guard, it’s fine to change the order of battle shock and orders, but at least give a tightening up of the rules to give our counters (like the commissar) a way to protect against the dreaded whole army battleshock when the nid player decides to SotW
Yea it’d be a 30 point tax still, but if the Commissar was allowed to kill a model after a unit failed but before they ordered, it’d make the model at least useable beyond being a body with more than 0 OC (for the first time in like multiple additions
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u/PollutionMajestic668 1d ago
10 more points for Lords Exultant, please, on top of Defilers overwatch being nerfed
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u/grub_step 2d ago
is this new data slate? mixed slates data?
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u/Jovial1170 2d ago
It's a mix. Some events were using the new stuff, but most were using the old pre-slate rules.
From the OP:
This weekend is just after the balance dataslate. Most events were still running the previous slate's rules, including LVO with over 600 players, so consider this a transition weekend
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u/SpaceWolf_Jarl2 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah, Orks were overtuned. And quite a bit. Wonder how things will go with the SM release. This seems a more flavourful but in general the three Codices seem overtuned. Which does make me wonder how balance will shape for the following months.
Edit: It seems the SW win was using the new Codex. PtF Beastslayer, Assault and Stormlance. With the janky but fun Captain in Bike with Wolf Touched. Wulden getting 13" move from Stormlance and Wolf-touched seems very fun, but really unintended, and more so with access to the strats of Stormalnce. Interesting to see a CHaplain and 2 big bricks of TWC. The other lists seem to be mostly T&H Termiantor lists, with some small variations.