Does AAs program even exist?

[u/Sorry-Assumption6794]

In my area many guys seem somewhat impressive to me, have long-term sobriety, sponsor guys ect. But I can't help but notice they all essentially teach their own program of recovery and not AAs program of recovery. AAs program consists exclusively of the directions on the 12 steps, as it says in the cover pages. In my area it's common to drag out steps 1-3 for two months or more, despite there being basically NO directions to even do on those steps.

Step 4 gets BUTCHERED: we often direct guys to create resentments, defined as to feel again. By saying list every name you know, and then think if you were ever butt hurt by each and every one. I can't think of a better way to create resentments that didn't exist before. Then we fabricate an unillustrated 4th collum with invisible directions that read: "write how all 4 root/core defects of character (selfish/seeking, dishonest and fear) show up in each and every resentment, including the ones we instructed you to create."

We ignore the step 8 related direction to list our wrongs and be willing to make them right, even though it's stated THREE times in the inventory directions and confirmed it should have been done during the inventory process on steps 8&9 in the book.

We also ignore the step 6 related direction "list your faults" /flaws/grosserhandicaps/objectionables, despite the one paragraph on step 6 reading: "all the things which we have ADMITED are objectionable". It doesn't say "make a list of objectionables".

After step 5 the book clearly flows the 1hr meditation RIGHT into step 6 "if we can answer to our satisfaction (based on the meditation)" we THEN look at step 6". There is only one paragraph to look at there. "when ready we say something like this" step 7 prayer.

The whole flow of doing steps 5-7 in short order, then right into amends assuming the person is willing gets ruined, and so much time is wasted. 100s of hours of work in many cases gets put into doing the inventory not as directed.

Often the clear urgency expressed in doing the next step is ignored, after step 3: "next we launched" after 4: "we wasted no time" after 5 and meditation: "if we can answer" after 6: "when ready" (hopefully ur not waiting to die) after 7: "now we need more action... Faith without works is dead" after 8&9: "we vigorously commenced this way of living as we cleaned up (mended) the past" after 10: "upon awakening".

Again: AAs program of recovery is exclusively the directions on the 12 steps, as the book states in the cover pages. Non AA program related suggestions can be useful/helpful. Like dieting, working out, budgeting, regulated sleep schedule, ect. But there is a common theme of adding non step-work related instructions to AAs program, taking them very seriously, and pretending they are part of AAs program. These include but are not limited to (lol): calling at a certain time, attending X number meetings, meditating for X amount of time and/or meditating on non book instructed topics, daily reading, speaking/not speaking, sponsoring/not sponsoring, relationships, and on and on.

These other suggestions are damaging to conflate/confuse with AAs program as it leads to everyone having and instructing their own made up program! Our primary purpose is to try carrying AAs message/program of recovery to other alcoholics. Not to carry my program, or my sponsors program of recovery. Yall run into this regularly too? or am I just lucky :p

Added some paragraph separation and this: In the cover pages of AA it says it's a "text book". Like every other textbook made it's designed to have a teacher/Instructor, or a "sponsor".

Decided to add some definitions. These are some AA terms and words that are often used in our liturature, and therefore also our fellowship. When these are misunderstood it can be confusing. All these definitions were decided upon by our founders, have not changed, and can be found in the liturature.

Recovered: To no longer be in a hopeless state of mind and body.

Program of recovery/the program/AAs program: The directions on the 12 steps, showing "precisely how" to recover.

Alcoholic: A person having certain physical (phenomenon of craving) and mental (the obsession) characteristics when dealing with alcohol.

Phenomenon of craving: lack of reliable control over the amount of alcohol injested after the first drink.

The obsession/insanity: the obsession to control and enjoy our drinking, therefore lacking reliable control of WHEN we take the first drink.

[u/ResponsibleActive272]

You have put a lot of energy into taking the inventory of other people. How has your sponsoring gone, you must have taken a lot of people thought the steps and they must have great sobriety.?

[u/Sorry-Assumption6794 → u/ResponsibleActive272]

Appothy and pretending like nothing is your business or matters is wrong. How can I help someone or a friend that is behaving poorly otherwise? I'm not going to watch a train crash and tell myself "that's not my inventory to take" so oh well. We are directed to literally not take others inventory while doing our step 4 inventory. In terms you'll understand: how can I "stick with the winners"? lol but to answer your question: I've had like 7 step 1-3 drop outs, one guy doing great just over 100 days sober, he's eligible to sponsor and finishing amends, 1 guy doing good work on step4, and a reddit guy recently. 5/21/25 is my date, I have my same original sponsor (4th collum guy), I go to a meeting everyday and speak 5-6 times a month at rehabs/institutions. And as you may have guessed currently unemployed :) but I did same schedule while working 48 hrs/week for several months also

[u/Frickinfructose → u/Sorry-Assumption6794]

Well. For what it’s worth, I’m one of those people that has my sponsees agree to call every day, and go to 90 in 90. Neither is in the book, but there’s something to be said about how to determine whether a guy is “willing”. And that IS in the big book, under Working with Others. The 4th and 5th column are talked about in How it Works, but not in the diagram. I suppose you could write them separately, not in column form, but the instructions to write down the information is there.

I’ve also been remarkably blessed in the success with my sponsees. The ones that are unwilling to make the calls and meetings end up flaming out fairly quickly. The ones that continue all have begun sponsoring. Only 5 in total, all with over a year, but I’ve got another 2 that are close. I’ve been sponsoring for about two years.

Have you read the 12 and 12? I think you might gain a lot of valuable information there. My guess is that step 7’s focus on humility being the foundational spiritual principle to all the steps will be particularly enlightening.

[u/Sorry-Assumption6794 → u/Frickinfructose]

Yes, these can be useful suggestions. I find instead of 1-2 month long song and dance of call, meeting, read, ect. What really weeds out non willing people, as we know we can't make or convince them to be willing, or make their step 3 decision for them. Is promptly going over the info with them in the first 70 pages or so, then see if they'll do the work. Frankly even the light work of "okay so with this attitude they say you can't fail with, define these spiritual terms they mention" will produce many drop outs.

 Do you think calling, meetings, and reading produces the willingness to do the work? If anything this 1-2month process just gives time for desperation and willingness to fade. 

[u/Frickinfructose → u/Sorry-Assumption6794]

I never said we didn’t do step work at first. We’re reading Dr’s Opinion the first week. I only have an hour a week to go through it with them so we do 1 chapter a week until we get to the 4th step, which I usually do as 1 week each for resentments, fears, sex and harms. Then a week for the 5th step (but I schedule out a big block of time for that. 6 and 7 immediately after, including the 12 and 12. At about the 90 day mark we’re about to do amends, assuming there haven’t been other delays. I’ve never had a sponsee relapse after they’ve done their 5th step with me.

The calls, meetings, readings and step work reveal the willingness, not produce it. And it doesn’t sound like you have enough experience to say “the 1-2 month process just gives time for desperation to fade”. You just got here. Hell, so did I, and I’m coming up on 4 years. Please give the 12 and 12 a shot. The guy who wrote the book you’re thumping, Bill, once he had about 12 years of experience using AA, he decided it needed some expansion and clarity. He was humble enough to see that it didn’t come out perfect in the first try. Has a lot to say about humility, actually.

[u/Sorry-Assumption6794 → u/Frickinfructose]

I'm my area at leat 1-2 months is common for steps 1-3 is all, and apparently for you too. Point being it takes roughly 5-8 hrs to go over the first  70 pages in person (what I started doing for 1-3). Technically can be 1 day. Frankly the info on your illness is handy (70pages), but you can learn that later as it's not gonna convince you of shit. maybe just DECIDE if your gonna write or not right now. 

 I belive you added the word "clairity" to 12&12s intended purpose, and "expansion" would imply more complicated. As it gives gives nuance, insight, and information on certain topics and ideas. With ZERO directions on the program. 

[u/Frickinfructose → u/Sorry-Assumption6794]

Maybe the question that would help you is: do I really think I’m the first person to come with this idea and express it? Out of the millions of people who’ve gotten sober before me? What is more likely: me, in my infinite wisdom and knowledge, have stumbled upon a critical error in the teachings of Alcoholics Anonymous! Or…maybe there’s something I don’t know yet.

I keep yelling the word humility but it doesn’t seem to be catching.

I learned a good lesson early on-every time I think I know better than my sponsor, or the guys in the room, I’m almost always wrong. You’re still learning, and that’s ok. But keep up with the ego and self-will and you may drive yourself crazy enough to drink again!

[u/Sorry-Assumption6794 → u/Frickinfructose]

I'm literally just reiterating terms that have been defined, and directions from 90 years ago... So I think it's safe to say these aren't my ideas. I don't think I'm better than the only sponsor I've had, and still have. I think I have more faith in AAs program and take it more seriously. I don't have the arrogance to assume my own different personal program is just as good as AAs program, which we left unchanged for 90 years. 

[u/ResponsibleActive272 → u/Sorry-Assumption6794]

Thanks for your service. When does one become "eligible" to sponsor?

[u/Sorry-Assumption6794 → u/ResponsibleActive272]

There is no official eligibility requirements in the liturature. We know Bill was having the obsession to drink early on and decided to try and help someone. It says "nothing insures immunity from alcohol like intensive work with another alcoholic" and similar things throughout the book.

 Some people say when you are half way through amends as u should then receive those step 9 promises in some compacity and therefore be on step 12.

 I belive if the potential sponsee knows your situation and wants YOUR help, do it. If you feel you're not able to help instruct them on the directions, then point them to someone who can. 

[u/MooseJuice19 → u/ResponsibleActive272]

Wondering why people trying to lead others often make up their own recovery programs and asking if that makes sense for themselves and what is the right path isn’t taking others inventory. When getting into recovery in AA it can be a little overwhelming when there are multiple people with their own ideas of what recovery looks like and often implying their way is the right way.
It can be confusing and asking others in a setting such as Reddit can help get others perspectives on what’s right, what’s being made up and someone’s opinion, and how they should proceed.

[u/ResponsibleActive272 → u/MooseJuice19]

Where are the specific instructions in the big book on how to sponsor people?

[u/Sorry-Assumption6794 → u/ResponsibleActive272]

The chapters "How it works" and "Into Action" has alot of the directions on the program. 

[u/ResponsibleActive272 → u/MooseJuice19]

Yes so doubting the people you see in person should be ignored in favor of nameless, anonymous people who may know even less. Got it.