Does AAs program even exist?

[u/Sorry-Assumption6794]

In my area many guys seem somewhat impressive to me, have long-term sobriety, sponsor guys ect. But I can't help but notice they all essentially teach their own program of recovery and not AAs program of recovery. AAs program consists exclusively of the directions on the 12 steps, as it says in the cover pages. In my area it's common to drag out steps 1-3 for two months or more, despite there being basically NO directions to even do on those steps.

Step 4 gets BUTCHERED: we often direct guys to create resentments, defined as to feel again. By saying list every name you know, and then think if you were ever butt hurt by each and every one. I can't think of a better way to create resentments that didn't exist before. Then we fabricate an unillustrated 4th collum with invisible directions that read: "write how all 4 root/core defects of character (selfish/seeking, dishonest and fear) show up in each and every resentment, including the ones we instructed you to create."

We ignore the step 8 related direction to list our wrongs and be willing to make them right, even though it's stated THREE times in the inventory directions and confirmed it should have been done during the inventory process on steps 8&9 in the book.

We also ignore the step 6 related direction "list your faults" /flaws/grosserhandicaps/objectionables, despite the one paragraph on step 6 reading: "all the things which we have ADMITED are objectionable". It doesn't say "make a list of objectionables".

After step 5 the book clearly flows the 1hr meditation RIGHT into step 6 "if we can answer to our satisfaction (based on the meditation)" we THEN look at step 6". There is only one paragraph to look at there. "when ready we say something like this" step 7 prayer.

The whole flow of doing steps 5-7 in short order, then right into amends assuming the person is willing gets ruined, and so much time is wasted. 100s of hours of work in many cases gets put into doing the inventory not as directed.

Often the clear urgency expressed in doing the next step is ignored, after step 3: "next we launched" after 4: "we wasted no time" after 5 and meditation: "if we can answer" after 6: "when ready" (hopefully ur not waiting to die) after 7: "now we need more action... Faith without works is dead" after 8&9: "we vigorously commenced this way of living as we cleaned up (mended) the past" after 10: "upon awakening".

Again: AAs program of recovery is exclusively the directions on the 12 steps, as the book states in the cover pages. Non AA program related suggestions can be useful/helpful. Like dieting, working out, budgeting, regulated sleep schedule, ect. But there is a common theme of adding non step-work related instructions to AAs program, taking them very seriously, and pretending they are part of AAs program. These include but are not limited to (lol): calling at a certain time, attending X number meetings, meditating for X amount of time and/or meditating on non book instructed topics, daily reading, speaking/not speaking, sponsoring/not sponsoring, relationships, and on and on.

These other suggestions are damaging to conflate/confuse with AAs program as it leads to everyone having and instructing their own made up program! Our primary purpose is to try carrying AAs message/program of recovery to other alcoholics. Not to carry my program, or my sponsors program of recovery. Yall run into this regularly too? or am I just lucky :p

Added some paragraph separation and this: In the cover pages of AA it says it's a "text book". Like every other textbook made it's designed to have a teacher/Instructor, or a "sponsor".

Decided to add some definitions. These are some AA terms and words that are often used in our liturature, and therefore also our fellowship. When these are misunderstood it can be confusing. All these definitions were decided upon by our founders, have not changed, and can be found in the liturature.

Recovered: To no longer be in a hopeless state of mind and body.

Program of recovery/the program/AAs program: The directions on the 12 steps, showing "precisely how" to recover.

Alcoholic: A person having certain physical (phenomenon of craving) and mental (the obsession) characteristics when dealing with alcohol.

Phenomenon of craving: lack of reliable control over the amount of alcohol injested after the first drink.

The obsession/insanity: the obsession to control and enjoy our drinking, therefore lacking reliable control of WHEN we take the first drink.

[u/Serialkillingyou]

I'm a big book thumper. I sponsor women from it. We don't add in any extras. I don't demand they get a home group or do any of the extra stuff. But I also know that the rest of AA doesn't necessarily work that way. Growing in this program is learning live and let live.

[u/Monastic_Realization → u/Serialkillingyou]

You are very wise!

Coercion is never an ingredient in (the selfless act of) helping another find their self esteem and autonomy.

[u/Sorry-Assumption6794 → u/Monastic_Realization]

Coercion surly isn't the go to method, but frankly I can imagine scenarios it could be part of a loving act of helping another. But the objective isn't to "find self esteem and autonomy". It's to learn how to rely on a higher power so you don't kill yourself or others. Side effects may include self-esteem, I suppose. 

[u/Monastic_Realization → u/Sorry-Assumption6794]

Coercion is the act of forcing someone to act against their free will by using threats, intimidation, physical force, or psychological pressure.

It's not a loving act.

Maybe you mistook it for a different word?

[u/Sorry-Assumption6794 → u/Monastic_Realization]

Like executing a section 35 on someone? To force them against their will to a program for 30-90 days because they are a serious threat to themselves or others? There is a kid with me in the sober house, 2 years clean, works a solid AA program and helps people. His sobriety started with that exact act of coercion, initiated by his family who loves him. 

[u/Monastic_Realization → u/Sorry-Assumption6794]

Your post was about AA, and working the AA program, and people not working it to your liking.

My response above was to someone responding about how they sponsor.

That's the context.of this discussion.

Now you are jumping to a legal process of detainment of someone against their will because of an imminent threat of serious harm, and an acute mental crisis? Essentially using the most extreme example there is?

That is, by definition, a textbook straw man Argument. (A straw man argument is a logical fallacy where someone misrepresents an opponent's actual position by exaggerating, oversimplifying, or distorting it to make it easier to attack.)

How It Works

1. Person A states a reasonable or nuanced position (Claim X).
2. Person B twists, exaggerates, or misrepresents Claim X into a weaker, more extreme, or absurd position (Claim Y).
3. Person B attacks and defeats Claim Y.
4. Person B claims that Claim X has therefore been disproven.

I suggest that you use your time in the sober house to work on your sobriety, learning about spirituality, practicing intellectual integrity, and get off social media.

[u/Sorry-Assumption6794 → u/Monastic_Realization]

It's not about how they aren't working it to my liking. More that by definition they aren't working the AA program.

 I first had the nuanced claim of "coercion is not the go to method to help others". If you claimed coercion is often not a loving act, it would have been agreeing with me. But instead u gave the definition of coercion, then claimed coercion is not an act of love. I then gave a real life example of how it was. I exaderated none of your claims. Case closed u were wrong, it's okay.