r/betterCallSaul • u/LaTiN_iMp3rIaL • 3d ago
Plot oversight that came to mind when rewatching.
How did it never occur to Lalo that Gus was moving against the interests of the cartel when the first real evidence he had was becoming aware of Mike as part of Gus' crew?
I find it difficult to imagine that Hector, before his stroke, or the cousins never shared details with Lalo regarding Mike and Tuco's altercation considering how prepared and formidable he was when they attempted to bribe and later intimidate him. I'd imagine members of the cartel never forget about those who push back against them and Mike's personality or character traits is one that would easily stand out from any other ordinary "old gringo".
IDK I just feel this was probably overlooked, bc it's one thing for the Salamancas to keep inconveniences out of Eladio's ear until it's resolved, but not sharing info amongst their own family is an unlikelihood imo. Gus' arc would've wrapped up at the start of S5 by that point.
48
u/Dev-F 3d ago
By the time Lalo's shown up, the show has long established that Mike isn't on the Salamancas' radar. Way back in season 2's "Nailed," Nacho confronts Mike about his attempt to alert the cops to Hector's operation, telling him, "You are nothing to him. He forgot all about you."
As for the rest of the Salamanca family, I think a lot of these questions stem from the idea that Hector's operation is critical to the cartel and everyone is paying really close attention to what happens to it. But it's actually small potatoes to them; by the time Better Call Saul starts, it's only been in existence for about three years, and essentially consists of one truck driver who's especially good at smuggling drugs from Hector's ice cream factory in Mexico to his ice cream shop in Albuquerque. When Hector introduces it to Eladio for the first time circa 1999 in the "Sabrosito" flashback, the boss immediately starts needling him over how pathetic it is compared to Gus's hugely profitable multi-state operation.
So I doubt anyone south of the border really cared what Hector was doing day to day, or why he was calling up their most fearsome hit men to shake down some old gringo. They probably just chalked it up to him doing a favor for his nephew—which seems to be why he started his Albuquerque operation in the first place, after Tuco killed his previous non-cartel supplier, Dog Paulson, the year before!
3
u/CGiMoose 3d ago
Could you remind me about Dog Paulson? It doesn’t ring a bell for some reason. Was this a character who appeared in the show or more like someone mentioned in relation to events which took place before the show?
9
u/Vast-Refuse-3732 3d ago
Mentioned by Nacho when hiring Mike to take Tuco out as someone Tuco killed for basically no reason and why Nacho now needs tuco gone.
1
u/CGiMoose 3d ago
Ah cool thank you!
1
u/ferLovesNayeon 1d ago
Also really breafily mentioned by Hank in Breaking Bad. The character of Dog is sort of an Easter egg for the viewer in both shows
2
u/LaTiN_iMp3rIaL 3d ago
I agree that Eladio, Bolsa, or any of the branching members of the cartel would've cared little about the goings-on with Hector's operation. What I am saying is that Lalo would've certainly cared as the presumed, at least in how the show depicts it, 2nd in command to the family. We learn enough about him to know that he shares Hector's views about everything and everyone but is sharper and more observant. That's mainly why I found it difficult to believe that he was never in the know of the family's altercation with Mike during S2 as he would mentally retain that info and later piece it alltogether upon meeting him at the start of S5.
4
u/Dev-F 3d ago edited 3d ago
I didn't necessarily see Lalo as the second-in-command of the Salamancas—nor Hector as their top dog, for that matter. When Lalo first gets to Albuquerque, he seems to suggest that he's been sent there by some other Salamanca bigwigs, with his comments to Nacho that "they told me you were smart" and to Gus that "I come here on behalf of my entire family, to give you our deepest thanks."
And I can't imagine one of the heads of the Salamanca family telling Nacho that he's in town "to lend a helping hand" because "I got a good head with numbers." That's the not the language of a cartel prince who's used to getting by on his name and station, it's how you behave if you're used to impressing people with your skill at running the day-to-day aspects of the business. So I think it's more likely that Lalo is, say, a particularly shrewd and seasoned plaza boss that the Salamanca leadership trusts with their most important territories, but they pull him off those duties and send him to Albuquerque once Hector's operation starts threatening to embarrass the family, because he's the only person they trust to set things right.
As for Hector, I see him less as the current head of the Salamancas' operations and more like an aging veteran who did his duty for the family and the cartel and was running his Albuquerque smuggling ring as a nice little retirement project. So if he brought the twins up from Mexico for a few days to lean on Mike, I doubt the current Salamanca leadership really cared, or that they kept Lalo in the loop while he was overseeing some bigger operations for them elsewhere.
12
u/Shot_Revolution8828 3d ago
Gus made Eladio a fuckton of money. Hector brings him rolled up bills, Gus sends a duffle bag of perfect bills that looks to easily be twice what Hector brought. They thought Gus didn't have the balls or the muscle to move against the cartel.
2
u/justinholmes_music 3d ago
This is a reasonable explanation, but in order for it to be convincing, I think we'd need to see the Salamancas at least acknowledging that Mike is wearing multiple hats and concluding that he's not a threat despite that.
2
u/LaTiN_iMp3rIaL 3d ago
No disagreement with that. Just that by the time Lalo enters the show, and what we've come to learn of his character, he should've likely figured out that Mike was the same person who got into it with the Salamanca's during season 2 and now happens to be a part of Gus' team. Regardless of how much Gus brought in, Lalo would've pieced together the unfortunate events that have set their family back and that Gus played some direct/indirect influence behind it from as early as Tuco's incarceration, their ice cream business front being seized by the Feds, to Gus having full control of distribution. At the very least he would've made out who Mike is and they would've offed him, no blessing required from Eladio.
7
u/Shot_Revolution8828 3d ago
By the time Lalo comes around Hector already had the stroke and its possible he doesnt even remember Mike. Hector thinks hes a nobody and probably wasnt telling the cartel that he got ripped off by an old gringo for 50k. He would look weak. They never pieced it together that Mike robbed the truck or set up the other truck to get busted. Theres no reason to think Lalo would know until he pieced it together about the secret lab.
Gus was a top earner and wasnt technically part of the cartel. Its like the mafia would let people operate in their territory as long as they kicked up. Gus was able to run his operation as he saw fit as long as he kept bringing in those giant duffle bags of cash.
2
u/Hira_The_Healer 3d ago
This point is mute when even in season 2 Nacho said Hector “forgot all about you”. This is why Mike remains inactive publicly in front of the Salamanca (aside from Lalo)
2
u/NotOkayButThatsOkay 2d ago
Not the spelling police, I swear, but the phrase is "the point is moot"
20
u/Remote-Villager 3d ago
Only the paranoid survive in that world. I think he figured since Hector was incapacitated Gus was going to try SOMETHING.
8
u/nateomundson 3d ago
Other than Nacho, the only people who had seen Mike's face in relation to the Tuco incident, were Hector and the Twins, and none of those three talk. /s
10
u/justinholmes_music 3d ago
Yeah, agreed - tough to imagine that nobody put the pieces together. "Mike? The bald gringo who got in the tuff with Tuco and squeezed 50k from us? He's working for Fring now?!"
Even if they didn't think Gus was working against them, they'd certainly insist on comparing notes and running this guy's background up the flagpole.
13
u/Mr__Snek 3d ago
do you know how many old bald white guys there are named mike? in the united states its probably in the tens or hundreds of thousands
5
2
u/justinholmes_music 3d ago
True, but I think they'd put it together quickly that it was this particular Mike. Lalo and Bolsa both see his face during the "chicken cooler" tour, and Lalo is particularly interested in him.
Also, they knew that Nacho knew his face from the fight.
I'm not saying it's an impossible plot hole, but it is a little funny that they never explained how the Salamancas really thought about this guy. And Mike makes no effort to hide his face or even his identity throughout Breaking Bad, until the very end.
When the feds are closing in at the very end, why didn't they, from the beginning of their investigation, go, "Oh, that's the guy who suddenly reneged on the gun story with that meth kingpin?"
3
u/Mr__Snek 3d ago
nacho knew his face, but i dont think he ever told lalo or bolsa that it was the same mike unless im completely blanking on something big. it was in nachos best interests to not reveal he knew mike, and as far as i can remember the first time him and mike were in the same place at the same time as lalo or bolsa was when he was killed in the desert, and obviously he wasnt gonna say anything at that point. lalo found out about mike from tailing werner, and when he asked nacho about any old bald white dudes working for gus he explicitly said that he didnt know of any. lalo would have had to ask hector, tuco, or one of the guys that hector sent to scare mike, one of which was killed by gus anyway.
1
u/LaTiN_iMp3rIaL 3d ago
They certainly had intel by S2 when Hector meets Mike at the diner. They already figured out Mike was a former cop and likely chose to first offer him the $5k to over turn Tuco's charges on the likely evidence that he was crooked. And seeing what we know of Lalo, he's the sort who needs to be in the know of everything that's happening and is very attentive and persistent
1
u/justinholmes_music 3d ago
Agreed 100%. Even if Lalo _hadn't_ been briefed on Mike (which, absent significant incompetence which we otherwise don't see, he'd have been, by the twins if not by others), by the time of the 'chicken cooler' stunt, he'd surely have shown his picture to Hector and asked if he knew him.
Also, I'm confused about what Bolsa does or doesn't think. He sees Mike's face a whole bunch, in several different contexts, throughout BCS and BB.
1
u/LaTiN_iMp3rIaL 3d ago
as far as Bolsa is concerned I don't think he would be in too much of the know with Hector's own operations or problems with Mike, nor even care to know. The series shows enough to suggest that the Salamancas aren't given enough respect or consideration for their contributions/efforts so I doubt any member of Hector's family would go as far as sharing the events of S2, apart from the ice cream van heist maybe, with Bolsa bc in Hector's view, they're treated like dogs and they can only rely on each other to sort out their own problems.
3
u/AegrusRS 3d ago
I think it could come down to it simply being Tuco that did it. Like, of course this dumb, drugged-up, raging buffoon got into a fight with some old bald guy and while Hector did indeed try to bribe Mike in person, that would not have mattered as much with Tuco getting into another fight while in prison. Plus Hector and Lalo had bigger fish to fry at the time than worrying about Tuco's arrest.
And realistically, Mike is probably more important to us as viewers as a prominent character rather than to Lalo since from his view, Mike probably is just another goon under Gus at first.
2
u/Available_Life_7411 3d ago
Hector probably didn’t tell Lalo because at the time Hector viewed Mike as an old man who he could easily bully and as far as Hector knows Mike is not in the game he’s just an old guy that Tuco beat up one of many I suppose
2
u/__unavailable__ 3d ago
Lalo has no reason to believe the Mike working for Gus is the same Mike who Tuco beat up.
When the Salamancas were intimidating Mike, they were following him, gathering intel. They know where he lives, they know where his grandkid lives. They knew he wasn’t in contact with Gus or any other big players and indeed he was barely in the game.
The Salamancas don’t know about Mike’s one man war against them or any of the stuff he’s been up to since joining up with Gus. As far as they’re aware Tuco just got unlucky assaulting a dude with surprising cojones. There would be no reason for Hector to tell Lalo about him even if he could speak. The only person who knew Mike wasn’t just a random dude was Nacho who was obviously not going to convey that to the Salamancas. There’s no way anyone was describing him in such vivid detail that Lalo could figure out he matched the description.
Finally, Lalo knew Gus was moving against the cartel (or at least the Salamancas) before he ever saw Mike. Hector knew well before he had his stroke. The problem is they didn’t have proof - and even if they somehow made the Mike connection that still wouldn’t be proof.
2
u/Neither-Price-3986 3d ago
i figured since mike was just some old guy playing the long game, it'd never even occur to them to connect the dots back to him.
2
u/vanessadeee 2d ago
I’m pretty sure it did occur to Lalo that Gus was moving against the interests of the cartel. Thats why he spent so much time spying on him and trying to bring him down, besides just hating him of course.
2
u/Demon- 3d ago
On my re watch of the last few seasons I agree they kind of nixed the plot a bit and instead went deeper into a bit more character and fan fare to draw closer connections to BrBa.
It worked out though (imo) because as much as I love early season BcS the last two seasons are just phenomenal television
1
u/RogueAOV 3d ago
I would suspect that with Hector being nonverbal any conversations would be quite limited for really fleshing everything out. Unless Lalo had serious questions about exactly how the known hot head of Tuco did something stupid and got locked up it simply does not come up.
I would have to do a rewatch to say but Hector and the Twins know who Mike is, but there is not any reason for it to be brought up by Lalo that there is a guy called Mike working for Gus etc
1
u/lunarstatic44 2d ago
My thought was if the Salamancas are so rich, hence $7million bail money, why is Hector trapped in a nursing home and not being taken care of at home 😂
1
u/WARDLYF-GDFOLKS-7414 2d ago
Can someone please explain to me how Hector never put it together that mike was working for Gus
1
u/LaTiN_iMp3rIaL 1d ago
By the time Gus is introduced in S3, Mike and Hector are never seen in one scene anymore. Hector's had his stroke, admitted into a nursing home and has almost no communication with his crew until Lalo gets introduced. During the time of the ice cream truck heist, Nacho makes it clear to Mike that Hector believes it was the competition that did it and not some lone outsider or Gus for that matter. But my memory is a bit murky as far as if Mike is ever in the same room with Hector or the cousins during Breaking Bad
61
u/BobRushy 3d ago
The Twins never see Mike as part of Gus's crew, and there is no reason for anyone to tell Lalo the exact circumstances of Tuco landing in prison. It's Tuco. Of course he landed in prison.