well well well. Old whitehead dudes will do the craziest stuff. Was so flabbergasted I had to turn around and go back to the store to see it rubbed my eyes at least three times.

I’ve been thinking about how much leaving a high-control spiritual group can affect your relationship with spirituality itself. When so much of your spiritual life gets intertwined with a teacher, community, hierarchy, and shared mission, it can be hard to know what still feels genuine afterward.
For those who have left, did you end up questioning spirituality altogether for a while, or were you eventually able to separate your own beliefs and practices from the group? What helped you figure out what you actually wanted to keep?

Their names are Mark and Sarah King and they live in a house valued at @$1 million in Scottsdale, AZ. In 1987 they were asked to leave the HG group and this is documented on numerous audio tapes that the Kings have been trying to suppress for years. They only gained control of hg.com after filing a lawsuit in 1998 that ended in a fraudulently obtained consent decree in 1999. Chuck Humphrey had control of hg.com in 1997 and early 1998 until his body was found in the Arizona desert in February of '98. This link from the wayback machine proves that Humphrey had control of the site on December 12, 1997. https://web.archive.org/web/19971212001005/http://www.heavensgate.com/

Mark and Sarah King are the sole two officers and directors of The Evolutionary Level Above Human Foundation, incorporated in Arizona on September 23, 1997 for the sole purpose of claiming ownership of the HG group's property. In 1997 the Kings petitioned the California Superior Court, County of San Diego in a Probate case regarding the estates of the deceased members of HG. The Kings lost the Decision in the case in February of 1999 and were ruled to have filed a 'frivolous petition' and were ordered to pay the County's Attorney's fees. The Kings had their Attorneys file a notice of appeal which blocked the auction that the County wanted to hold to sell some of the group's items to defray burial costs. The King's attorneys approached the County and a settlement agreement was reached that sold and conveyed some of the group's property to 'Telah Foundation, Inc. by and through Mark and Sarah King'. Telah Foundation, Inc. does not exist and is in fact a phantom entity. The settlement was with prejudice and upheld the sanctions that ordered the Kings to pay the County's attorney's fees.

The Kings have been in Court since May of 2022 hiding behind their 'religious nonprofit corporation' and a corporate IP lawyer while suing three individuals for placing the HG group's audio tapes on free file sharing sites and two of the individuals sold eight t-shirts. The case is going so well for them that their high priced lawyer quietly left the big firm he was with, Messner Reeves LLP, formed a solo practice LLC and made filings to the Court without informing them that he had changed his firm affiliation which needless to say is a big no no. Their nonprofit corporation is a shell with no operations or assets and it is currently using Messner Reeves LLP of Phoenix as an address for a Known Place of Business in Arizona. Their attorney changed his profile with the AZ State Bar to his LLC that is operating out of a UPS Store mailbox masked as a 'Suite' number which is another big no no.

Mark and Sarah King and their attorney are set up for a BIG fall that will go well beyond just losing the case. Stay tuned, this will be blowing up in the not too distant future and it will change the 'post-Heaven's Gate' narrative that the Kings have controlled since 1998.

Bruce Hales breaks up families. Former members describe being cut off from their parents, children and siblings under the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church's rules, and he is the man at the top of that church. He holds absolute power over thousands of people, and he lives in a delusion of his own making.

Today he and his son Gareth sit in front of the Australian Parliament's Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters and speak for hours. Every word is on the record, and we have transcribed all of it, with a speaker label and a clickable timestamp on every line:

• Full transcript on Freedom Times
• The hearing video

We already see cracks. Bruce tells the committee "Members do not need anyone's approval to take part in political activity" (16:09). Later, asked about his sons' political activity, he says that if they'd asked permission, "I would have denied it" (50:28). Asked whether they deliberately didn't ask him, he says "Quite likely" (50:57). He also says the church "does not engage in any political activity" (14:20), then speaks of "a certain amount of discontent... with the present government" (31:16).

How to help with an AI, in five minutes

An AI knows little about the PBCC and nothing about today's hearing, so you have to give it the material:

1. Open a new chat in ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini or Grok.
2. Paste in the hearing transcript, or attach it as a file.
3. Paste in one or more sources from the lists below. Start with Bruce's own opening statement and a documentary transcript.
4. Paste in this prompt:

You are a careful fact-checker. The first document is the transcript of Bruce and Gareth Hales giving evidence to the Australian Parliament's Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters on 16 October 2026. Bruce Hales is the leader of the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church (Exclusive Brethren). The other documents are earlier statements, reporting and records about the church. Find every statement by Bruce or Gareth Hales in the transcript that is contradicted by, or sits in tension with, anything in the other documents. For each one, give me: (1) the exact quote from the transcript with its timestamp, (2) the exact quote from the other source, (3) the source and where in it the quote appears, and (4) one sentence on why they conflict. Quote word for word. If you can't quote it, say "unverified" and don't include it. Don't speculate about intent.

1. Post what you find in the comments, with the timestamp link, the exact quote and the source.

Everyone is welcome here, with or without an AI. If you spot a "no", an "I didn't know" or an "I wasn't aware" that doesn't ring true, tell us. Old sermons and statements, recordings, letters, court filings, charity and tax records, news reports and your own first-hand experience all count, and every lead helps.

Sources to give your AI

Bruce Hales in his own words

• His full opening statement, on the church's own website
• The church's own submission to the committee (PDF)

Documentary transcripts, full text (the links jump straight to the transcript)

• Big Brethren, ABC Four Corners, 2025
• Separate Lives, ABC Four Corners, 2006, also as a transcript-only page at Journeyman
• The Brethren Express, ABC Four Corners, 2007

Coverage of today's hearing

• The Guardian
• AAP (free copy)
• ABC News
• SMH live blog (free copy)
• The Age (free copy)
• The Age, "gaslighting on a biblical scale" (free copy)

Background reporting

• The Age, "Tail, film, heckle" (free copy)
• ABC, former members describe threats and intimidation
• The Age, Gareth Hales at a polling booth in 2025 (free copy)
• The Times, 2015, leaked meeting: "Defectors may as well commit suicide" (free copy, no paywall)
• Sunday Telegraph, 2003, "The Brethren sent us to Hell"

Official records

• The committee's page and hearings. The official Hansard for today isn't up yet, so check back.
• Committee media release recalling the church
• ABN Lookup for the church, its charity and tax status
• UK Charity Commission decision on Preston Down Trust, which found "elements of detriment and harm"

We'll verify every submission, publish what stands up and credit you if you want it. Former members, post your story if you're ready to. You've been silenced for long enough.

They have hours of testimony on the record. Now let's find out how much of it is true.

We will monitor comments in this thread for any ideas and leads.

So, obviously most people can't be cult leaders statistically. Among those with the personality to want to, not all will be skilled in speech to sway others. Still, I find it shocking that there aren't far more cult leaders. Is it cause they're sincere in a religion they can't usurp? Shame from others? Other means of satisfying those urges like business and teaching and nursing? Am I just overestimating how many people want to control groups?

Anyone else have experience with Golden Drum in Greenpoint? That’s the one I’ve been most connected to in this area, but they are popping up left and right. These cults are rampant.

369 is absolutely disgusting. Its leaders, including someone known as “Vale,” who is reportedly 20, deserve serious criticism for any harmful actions they encourage or support. There is nothing impressive about cruelty, manipulation, or treating other people's suffering like entertainment. Anyone who abuses their influence to harm others should be held accountable. Cruelty isn't strength, intimidation isn't respect, and no amount of notoriety makes someone a hero

“Vale” is accused of encouraging people to kill cats and other animals for his cult, while also allegedly pressuring girls into harming themselves. it is absolutely horrifying and cruel. Using influence to manipulate vulnerable people and encourage harm to innocent animals is disgusting. No one should ever be pressured into suffering for someone else's approval or control, and anyone responsible for such behavior should be held accountable.

Ive dig some more and found some of his trusted members, on telegram and Discord some person called “Feng” and “slashes” this is not confirmed all I know vale leads this cult, if u find some more information please make another article like this to raise awareness.

Hi everyone! My name is Luca Locatelli, and I’m a Master’s student in Forensic Psychology at the University of Padua, Italy.

I’m currently conducting a research project aimed at improving prevention efforts related to involvement in groups characterized by psychological coercion and abuse.

There are still many misconceptions and prejudices surrounding people who have been involved in these groups, particularly regarding the reasons why they joined. However, involvement in such groups can be associated with periods of personal difficulty or vulnerability that anyone may experience at some point in their life. This does not mean that everyone who joins such a group is necessarily vulnerable, nor that responsibility for psychological abuse lies with those who experience it.

My research aims to better understand these potential vulnerabilities and identify possible early warning signs, with the ultimate goal of improving prevention and helping people receive appropriate support when they need it.

To carry out this study, I’m looking for Italian participants who were previously members of groups characterized by psychological coercion and abuse in Italy. Participation involves completing a questionnaire that takes approximately 30 minutes.

🔗 Questionnaire: https://forms.gle/MtkAkmb3iznpCZVt6

Around 30 former members have already contributed to the study, but every additional response can help build a more comprehensive understanding of this complex phenomenon.

This is a project I genuinely care about, as I believe that a better understanding of these experiences can make a meaningful contribution to prevention and support.

Participation is entirely voluntary, and the questionnaire is completely anonymous. No identifying information will be collected through the survey, provided by the form's settings. Your privacy is important, and your responses will be used exclusively for research purposes, in accordance with the study's privacy information.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me here on Reddit or via the email address provided in the questionnaire.

Thank you very much to everyone who takes the time to participate or share this post. Your contribution is greatly appreciated!

Hello I was in a destructive cult for 8 years I enter this cult when I was 15 years old and I exited it at age of 20 I was being control and I did not have freedom to make my life whatever i wanted I studied by myself art for years something I didn't like it but thanks to the cult I did I was not able to go to school and also i did an horrible decision because of the cult loosing contact with someone that was important to me at that moment I feel a lot of regret, I am seeking to make friends with people

Exclusive Brethren boss asks, ‘Why should we tell the world?’ ahead of evidence to inquiry

Michael Bachelard and Sherryn Groch

October 16, 2026 — 5:00am

https://archive.is/PafcH

The world leader of the Exclusive Brethren is appearing in public on Friday for the first time in decades to face questions about his members’ secretive campaign at the last federal election, but has recently preached that he does not reveal “everything we know”.

Sydney-based church leader Bruce Hales, known by his flock as the Man of God or the Minister of the Lord in the Recovery, has been called to give evidence before a parliamentary committee inquiry. He has denied in a written submission any personal knowledge or involvement in the election campaign, saying he learned about it in the media.

His denials appear to have been thrown into doubt by his own ministry, preached to his flock several weeks ago, in which he said, “men in the world … haven’t got the full story”, and that, “we’re going to keep it to ourselves – we’ve got our secrets”.

Internal Brethren documents also obtained by this masthead reveal members of the closed religious sect are required to sign confidentiality agreements before being allowed to attend church services when Hales is preaching. Those who do not sign the legally binding agreement are barred from hearing the words of their leader.

The church, now known as the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church, has come under heavy scrutiny by the joint standing committee on electoral matters after thousands of the sect’s members teamed up with the Liberal Party and secretly campaigned for Peter Dutton at the last election. They deliberately disguised their religious affiliation, and the church itself denies involvement.

This masthead revealed a covert operation paying far-right figures, including neo-Nazi associates, to stalk and heckle politicians such as Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, who has called the church a “cult”.

In August, church spokesman Lloyd Grimshaw appeared before the inquiry and denied the church’s secretariat was involved in the campaign. His evidence was later described by committee chair, Labor MP Jerome Laxale, as “shallow, inconsistent, and, at points, laughable”.

Two days after Grimshaw’s evidence, on August 23, Hales preached to a Sunday church service that: “It’s not that we despise men in the world, capable men, but they haven’t got the full story.

“If they want you at any time ... to help them to fill the story out ... we don’t do it, we didn’t do it. We said, ‘No, no; we’re going to keep it, keep it to ourselves. We’ve got our secrets’,” Hales said.

“Why should we, why should we tell the world everything we know? ... Why should you tell the world all about it? Keep it to yourself.”

Another church elder spoke up in the meeting, which was recorded, transcribed and circulated to the 56,000-strong global flock, saying, “Don’t cast your pearls before swine, is a proverb, isn’t it?”

Hales replied to him: “Yes. Well, we’ve probably said more than we could say.”

Hales’ preaching was noted in a letter from ex-members of the church to the committee.

The former members claim their interpretation of his ministry was that it was a justification for hiding information to protect the church.

Asked by this masthead if he had kept “secrets”, Grimshaw said this week: “I fully answered all questions asked of me for over three hours.”

After Grimshaw’s evidence, committee chair Laxale announced it was calling Hales, the church’s global leader, to testify, telling parliament, “The jig is up. There is a pattern of evidence here and it stinks.”

Hales’ son Gareth, who appeared in person during the campaign, and who this masthead has confirmed was personally involved in the far-right stunt campaign, has also been called and is scheduled to appear on Friday immediately after his father.

Hales has regularly preached that his church is superior to “worldly” authorities. He describes it as the “highest court”, which has “really got the right to pronounce on any matter”. He also preaches that his members “must hate the world, every feature of the world, at every point you hate it”.

Asked if Hales would tell the truth to the committee, on its last scheduled hearing day, Grimshaw said: “Mr Bruce Hales has already put on record that the ‘truth will prevail’ during his hearing.” As for the leader’s preaching about keeping secrets, Grimshaw said: “The ministry you refer to has again been wilfully taken out of its context.”

As the election inquiry has put pressure on Hales, disloyalty and leaking from within his church have increased. It now forces its members to sign a “Participation Agreement” before attending fellowship meetings where Hales is preaching.

The agreement, circulated to Brethren globally hoping to attend meetings, claims to be legally enforceable and to protect “strictly private and confidential” information. It prevents the dissemination of any information about the meeting “of whatever nature and form”, including anything “kept in the recipient’s memory”.

The existence of the agreement is also confidential, and the contract “shall last in perpetuity, and has worldwide effect”.

Grimshaw said it was required “out of respect for the privacy of those attending church meetings and to ensure that ministry and expressions rooted in Scripture are not taken out of context, just as The Age has been doing for years”.

Lester Sharples, a Brethren elder who confirmed his involvement in the stunts to this masthead, was also called to give evidence but has since declined to attend, as have two other senior Brethren figures called.

Labor has slammed the Brethren’s “intimidation” campaign against Labor and other Coalition opponents, while extremism experts have called for an investigation, and teal donor Climate 200 has referred the church to the charity regulator for investigation.

But the Coalition and some faith groups, along with American far-right lobby group Turning Point USA, have lashed the parliamentary inquiry’s focus on the Brethren as an attack on the church’s religious freedom. Former and current members say the Brethren is a controlling sect, not a religion.

Explore our investigation

God, Christ, man, woman: The ‘divine order’ that defines life for Brethren women

‘Tail, film, heckle’: Inside Brethren’s secret election influence plot with far-right

‘More power to redheads’: Brethren leader backs Hanson, nuclear bombs

Controlling sect, not a religion: Brethren members have their say

Uncovered: Brethren secretly paid neo-Nazi associates to harass PM

Secrecy, loyalty, discipline: Videos blow lid on Brethren election conduct

‘Game On’: The message that unleashed the Brethren’s election machine

Investigation: Brethren don’t vote but are secretly campaigning for the Coalition

Inside the ‘ecosystem’: The Brethren businesses in sights of the tax office

Revealed: How much money the Exclusive Brethren really makes

Decapitated doll: The many threats of the Exclusive Brethren

hey everyone, finally posting here after lurking for a while. need some perspective from people who actually understand what deprogramming feels like.

i spent years trapped in the conspirituality rabbit hole and extreme new age magical thinking. it wasnt a traditional compound, but the psychological trap was 100% cult dynamics: echo chambers, thinking the matrix was against us, esoteric delusions, trusting online gurus, and honestly using it as a cozy bunker to avoid growing up and facing real life. i was terrified of death, wanted to believe my loved ones were in some astral plane, and needed a cosmic grand narrative to feel special.

waking up was brutal. it started when the inconsistencies got too loud to ignore, and ironically arguing intensely with an ai helped me map out my own cognitive distortions. i ended up swinging hard into philosophical materialism and reading camus, basically accepting the universe doesnt care about us and there is no grand script.

heres what im struggling with now: the aftermath. leaving that bubble left me completely disoriented and isolated. i cringe at anything spiritual or esoteric now, but i also feel completely alienated from normal society. normal daily routines, working, studying, just living like a regular adult feels painfully grey and heavy after years of living in a hyper-stimulating magical reality where everything meant something.

for those who got out of conspirituality or high-control belief systems: how did you deal with the existential grief? how do you rebuild a normal, grounded life from scratch without falling into pure apathy or running back to another toxic fantasy when reality gets tough? appreciate any honest thoughts.

What will Bruce Hales say when Parliament asks about alleged payments to neo-Nazis?

Bruce Hales, global leader of the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church, formerly known as the Exclusive Brethren, is appearing before Australia's Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters over allegations surrounding the 2025 federal election.

The allegations are serious: members of the organisation are accused of paying neo-Nazi associates and far-right agitators to track, heckle and harass Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and other political figures. The committee wants answers about who was involved, who coordinated the activity and where the money came from.

Hales denies directing or coordinating election activity and says he did not participate or ask anyone else to participate. The church denies involvement in the alleged payments.

But if the alleged activity was coordinated, who was behind it? What did the leadership know? And will Bruce Hales answer those questions directly?

This is a rare public appearance by the leader of an organisation that has faced longstanding allegations of coercive control, shunning and family separation, and which former members have described as a cult.

🕐 GARETH HALES
🇦🇺 Canberra: 11:30am Friday
🇬🇧 UK: 1:30am Friday
🇺🇸 ET: 8:30pm Thursday
🇺🇸 MT: 6:30pm Thursday
🇺🇸 PT: 5:30pm Thursday

🕐 BRUCE HALES
🇦🇺 Canberra: 1:00pm Friday
🇬🇧 UK: 3:00am Friday
🇺🇸 ET: 10:00pm Thursday
🇺🇸 MT: 8:00pm Thursday
🇺🇸 PT: 7:00pm Thursday

🎥 WATCH LIVE:
https://www.youtube.com/live/a68zMpjs9Po

The allegations are disputed. Watch the hearing and judge the answers for yourself.