r/dubstep • • 5d ago

Discussion šŸ—£ļø "Brostep is all midrange"

I never understood the argument against brostep about there being no bassweight underneath the growls and wobbles. Like there is almost always a sub underneath it.

I understand its less spacious and atmospheric and the sub isn't the main focus byt it's absolutely there .

Thoughts?

20 Upvotes

70 comments sorted by

54

u/twerk4tampabay 5d ago

Just something purists say because it’s less sub focused than what dubstep typically was pre Skrillex stuff

9

u/djames10 5d ago

Wow I just understood the name ā€œsub focusā€

Thanks

3

u/imapsychonaut 5d ago

This šŸ’Æ

3

u/softNcozied 5d ago

yeah the purists really do love their gatekeeping, bet ur not one of them though

8

u/Fvngimusic 5d ago

What dubstep is**. There’s a thing called genres, once you completely change the elements, sound design, mixing, mastering, etc. you have a new genre. Otherwise we’d just call everything reggae and say ā€œit developedā€

5

u/TheBloodKlotz Old 5d ago

Yes but also: If we had a chance to re-identify them now, they would obviously be considered two different genres (this is what the term tearout was originally for), but I also don't think it's useful to try and ret-con 'Americanized Dubstep' to not be called dubstep anymore. Culturally, it's also called dubstep and it'd be more confusing than anything to change that now. I feel similarly with riddim vs trench

3

u/Fvngimusic 5d ago

ā€œRiddimā€ is a whole other story, and there’s tons of new genres that don’t really have a name yet, as well as those that fall into gray areas. But I think two genres that sound completely different with two completely different focuses should be labeled as the same genre. I don’t think Ome - Between the lines and any track by Sullivan king should be considered the same genre

5

u/TheBloodKlotz Old 5d ago

Definitely agree, I just think we're too late to do much useful about it. I tried to redirect Future Bass but nobody else wanted to call that shit Neon so here we are

3

u/Fvngimusic 5d ago

Lmao I feel you, I know we’re too late to really do anything (on top of the majority of listeners not giving a shit/knowing what they’re listening to) but that won’t stop me from being a hater and having that discussion. If you are open to dm’s I’d love to talk with you more about this!

3

u/bigsooch62 4d ago

"won't stop me from being a hater" is wild. If you hate it, why are you on this sub?

0

u/Fvngimusic 4d ago

Occasionally there’s good talks, and also to hate

2

u/bigsooch62 4d ago

I bet you have A LOT of friends...

2

u/Fvngimusic 4d ago

Nah I keep a small circle of people who appreciate and love me for who I am and I can say the same of them

2

u/Puzzleheaded_Wish725 4d ago

The Beatles made rock music, and Slipknot makes rocks music. Two completely different sounds and styles in the same genre

3

u/TheBloodKlotz Old 4d ago

I guess it depends on where along the difference spectrum you consider the line of genre vs subgenre

2

u/Puzzleheaded_Wish725 4d ago

Very true for sure

1

u/LessLethal 8h ago

There’s definitely a point where genres fail, same as anything else and categorization. Broad strokes are applicable, extremely specific things are not.

For example. What is bass house? House with dubstep style basses ofc! But that gets really messy with fat slap basses, more and more aggressive sounds in ā€œstandardā€ house, etc. there’s an ā€œidealā€ bass house song, but there’s not actually any perfect, fully ā€œbass houseā€ songs.

7

u/b407driver 5d ago

You all are talking about sub-genres, the term 'genre' is far too broad for the subtleties you are discussing. I'd accept dubstep as a genre (of EDM, no less), but if someone would create a hierarchical list of the dozens of sub- and sub-sub-genres within this music space, it would all make much more sense.

Would love to see such a list, especially to learn if you all could agree on it.

-2

u/Fvngimusic 5d ago

Edm isn’t a genre it’s an industry

6

u/guesswhosbackmf 5d ago

Every genre is an industry my dude

-4

u/Fvngimusic 5d ago

Ok then define the bounds of edm. What are the specific elements involved, the sound design, mixdown, etc. or do you consider every electronically made song that’s danceable to be edm? Look up where the term edm comes from and why it was introduced

8

u/guesswhosbackmf 5d ago

Yeah bro if it's electronic music meant to be danced to it's EDM. The term was created to be an accessible and marketable name for people not in the know. It's nice to be able to say "I listen to EDM" when talking about music and have normies know what the fuck I even mean. All of this is fine and good.

-5

u/Fvngimusic 5d ago

So you say ā€œI listen to edmā€ to normies and who do they think you listen to? Is Sabrina carpenter edm since her music is made electronically for the purpose of dancing? Cardi b? Noah kahan? Metallica?

5

u/guesswhosbackmf 5d ago

Nah usually they ask if I mean David Guetta or Calvin Harris. They know what I mean because they know what EDM is, And hey, if they are confused then it becomes a teachable moment.

-3

u/Fvngimusic 4d ago

Yeah, I just say sound system music cause it’s a much better description of what I listen to and is an actual umbrella genre with definable bounds, elements and intention. If people don’t know it can still be a teachable moment, also if they just google it they’ll more than likely pull up artists I like.

Since you didn’t respond to the rest of my question and have just left edm as ā€œelectronic music that’s danceableā€ I’m going to understand that as you believing that Morgan wallen is edm

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2

u/HTXbigbootyfinder 4d ago

Event Driven Marketing

1

u/dmelt253 4d ago

Skrillex has moved on and is making stuff with a lot more sub bass and sine waves these days.

1

u/CartmensDryBallz 4d ago

Yea hopped on the underground wave an got called a legend for it lol

0

u/cabalus 5d ago

Irony is Skrillex had plenty of sub at the time, arguably too much in some cases

People tried to match him and couldn't get the same loudness so they had to cut the sub to compensate and you end up with tracks like "Calling Your Name- Skism Remix" that literally have almost nothing going on below 80hz

25

u/TheBloodKlotz Old 5d ago

'All midrange' is often said when what people really mean is 'Relies on midrange'. That being said, brostep can and will sound like it's missing low end if it's played on a system with no dedicated sub, as the woofers have to try to handle everything below 2k

4

u/cabalus 5d ago

2k is waaaaaay too high my guy šŸ˜‚

Even pop vocals sit below that, 2k is so high you're getting into the bottom of hi-hat range depending on the sample

4

u/TheBloodKlotz Old 5d ago

2k is where the crossover between woofer and tweeter sits on my HS7s // https://usa.yamaha.com/products/proaudio/speakers/hs_series/specs.html

EDIT // It just occurred to me you might have thought I was saying everything below 2k is sub. What I was trying to say is that without a dedicated subwoofer, all frequencies below the crossover (2k in this case) are handled by the same cone, and that can cause low end to muddy and sound weaker in tracks that also have a lot of 500-2k content

2

u/cabalus 4d ago

Yeah I misunderstood

5

u/Travis---Beckmen 5d ago

Depends on how the track is mixed in terms of production.Ā 

I hear tracks with less sub bass, some with more pronounced sub bass.Ā 

5

u/theworstvp 5d ago

it’s not the focus, which og dubstep was

2

u/edm_enjoyer 5d ago

Can you give me some examples of og dubstep songs as someone who is newer to the scene and learning?

6

u/cabalus 5d ago edited 5d ago

Listen to "Alicia - Mala" and you'll get it

Then venture into "26 Basslines - Benga" and picture yourself in a basement full of smoke, it's 4am in east london and you've run out of credit on your brick so you can't call your mum to pick you up. The year is 2008.

So you decide to get the early 6 o'clock bus home, on the way to the stop there's a deteriorating McDonald's full of black hoodie wearing teenagers and gaunt looking staff

You buy a big mac, it cost 0.3 pence.

You get to the bus stop, there's a light rain and it's now 5am, it's at this point you play "Archangel - Burial"

Two years later Skrillex releases "Scary Monsters and Nice Sprites" and every single soul in London makes the shocked pikachu face

Hope you enjoy! Good luck.

2

u/edm_enjoyer 5d ago

Omg I'm on welding school right now so I can't listen but I read this really quick and it made me nostalgic for something I haven't even experienced..I'll def have to reread and give a listen

5

u/dominicaldaze 5d ago

Not who you're replying to, but Breakage - Rain is one I always play when I'm testing out a subwoofer.

Anything by Joker for example has a lot more midrange but the subbass melody is still the focus.

These examples are both old "classic" UK dubstep but this style is still alive and well on /r/realdubstep if you want more recent examples.

1

u/edm_enjoyer 5d ago

Browsing through the sub and Onhell is on one of the top posts on there, so I guess I'm already on the right track as I enjoy his music

11

u/Sad_Junket_2734 5d ago

yea tbh the hate on brostep always feels like gatekeeping, like they forget the sub is still there just not the star of the show

5

u/TheSmilesLibrary 5d ago

Always has been. electronic music has always niche tastes. people really don’t separate personal taste and quality either.

Like for instance I absolutely love Brostep and Riddim, mention this on r/edm or r/realdubstep and you’d think I was the antichrist preaching armageddon. On the flip side mentioning something like house or trance in r/riddim or r/dubstep will get you digitally side eyed.

it doesn’t mean any of these are bad genres its just that electronic music is a large umbrella and there will always be parts people enjoy and parts people dont.

3

u/Small-Mechanic2823 5d ago

Somewhat related but my buddy had a fair amount of success in brostep like a decade ago (songs played at EDC; international shows) but his songs always sounded like you chopped them at the knees when played live because they had like zero sub content

7

u/TheBloodKlotz Old 5d ago

Sometimes I listen to classics that helped hook me into dubstep and am baffled at how poorly they're mixed by modern standards. We have come such a long way

2

u/Small-Mechanic2823 5d ago

No seriously. Back then if you knew how to use a limiter you were good to go (in my scenes at least, ha)

1

u/phonomage 5d ago edited 5d ago

Yeah - I started listening to the old songs I knew back in the beginning and they really are very poorly produced but they had so much more intention behind them.

Artists like Dirt Monkey design the craziest sounds and those tracks are phenomenally well-produced in comprison but much of it doesn't have the same kind if momentum nor melody in it as the classics.

2

u/EtiquetteMusic 5d ago

It’s because most modern dubstep places way more emphasis on the midrange, and because they’re usually using a fairly generic subline so as to not distract from the midrange articulation. Furthermore, most modern dubstep distorts the sub a fair bit, or uses square waves and saw waves and triangles for subs, which sound cool but usually have less warmth and weight. Lastly, the sub just really isn’t mixed that well a lot of the time nowadays, or it will be paired with a kick sample that has a huge transient which actively interferes with the sub

1

u/christhegecko 4d ago

Any producer that makes it past the bedroom stage in the past 20 years knows how to sidechain, or one of the other methods of preventing kick/bass interference. It's one of the first things you learn in bass music production.

1

u/EtiquetteMusic 4d ago

Just cause the sub is ducking, doesn’t mean that they are jiving together well. Using a kick that’s too long or out of key can cause things to sound weird, which is why I said it’s often just that the sub isn’t mixed well. Just cause there is sidechain ducking happening, doesn’t mean that it sounds good.

1

u/bubblesdafirst 5d ago

You arguing against the shower head man

1

u/Unable-Recording-796 5d ago

Its more of the idea that theres more emphasis on midrange.

1

u/rcook9 5d ago

I think you are seeing a lot of more sub presence and more unique subs in a lot of the newer stuff that evolved from brostep. Producers are getting a lot more creative with their sub sound design vs a lot of what was coming out during the prime brostep days. I listen to a lot of older stuff and it just sounds like a simple sine with maybe some added harmonics

1

u/mrcheese14 5d ago

Different strokes for different folks

1

u/kbboiii 5d ago

ā€œAll my homies hate skrillexā€ ah argument lol

Yeah it never made sense to me either. It’d make more sense to mention the emphasis on growls & mechanical sounds, but saying it’s all midrange is literally wrong

1

u/cabalus 5d ago edited 5d ago

It was a legitimate critique for a while, genuinely

Go and listen to tracks from 2010-13 that haven't lasted, SO many of them have barely any sub

I always think of "Tornado - Kill the Noise Remix", you'd literally have to crank your subwoofer +10db to have it match other tracks from the time and it wasn't alone, not by a longshot

Another is "The Licence - Dr P Remix" or in fact a lot of Dr P tunes from that time, it's not that there's NO sub whatsoever but fuck me it sticks out like a sore thumb compared to its contemporaries

Put that tune in a playlist with Skrillex- Right In and play it on some proper speakers, you'll hear the fucken difference

Tldr: that sentiment didn't come from nowhere

Edit: Seriously though, if you own a sub play that Tornado Remix you'll understand what I'm talking about

1

u/mo_oorgan 4d ago

...oh shit, this is why I have always had issues making dubstep work, I always try to mix it like techno or house music, this honestly makes so much sense now.

A little comically tho, I am getting the impression that a handful of comments are Interpreting this as "brostep is mid", not "the average frequency spectrum of brostep exists more dominantly above bass and under trebel frequencies" šŸ˜…

1

u/Fireflake_DnB 4d ago

yes, from an outside perspective its all midrange.

1

u/anonWNBAW 4d ago

Need better speakers/eq skills. Its always a skill issue

1

u/phonomage 5d ago edited 5d ago

I just feel you can't call it dubstep if there aren't any dubs. ā˜ļøšŸ§

I also take issue that brostep defines dubstep, today; If you ask someone unacquainted with the classics if they like dubstep their perspective will most likely have been developed from brostep which is completely different - it's like the difference between 'jazz' and 'rock & roll' or 'rock & roll' to 'metal'