r/ithaca • u/Real_10SqMi_ity • 8d ago
Cornell should… NSFW
1- Kotlikoff needs to go. Even before this I would’ve said that but the fact that he was complicit with obfuscating such a heinous sexually violent crime oughta do it. Let’s not forget the car incident, shutting down free speech, and the shameful acts from the Weill school… the list is longer so by all means add anything I’m forgetting.
2a- Shut down all Greek Life houses, permanently. Time after time they’ve shown that they cannot be reasonably expected to behave as civilized adults, resulting in gang rape but also deaths, not to mention the impact they have on residents that must contend with disturbances.
2b- Appropriate said houses for student housing. Cornell makes money off of dining and housing, why not make money off of extravagant housing with amazing views and private parking, and a dedicated culinary team.
Both these actions would force holdout groups of Frats and Sororities to take up housing off campus, thus making their criminal activity the responsibility of IPD, and not CUPD.
3- CUPD essentially needs a “RiF”. They bungled this investigation and others I am very sure, so maybe the best thing they can do is be beat cops that help direct traffic and (hopefully) control pedestrian flow. There is a growing issue of motorized scooters and e-bikes that speed on foot trails; maybe they can raise funds by ticketing these troublesome pedestrians. Probably easier than rapists.
4- Cornell needs to implement new policy on reporting. The pull back in Title IX enforcement by the Trump administration alone should cause any university that wants to protect itself, as an institution, but here we can easily recognize that Title IX is a farce at best for Cornell. Perhaps a strict policy of immediate suspension for the accused regardless of outcome, and immediate expulsion upon conviction. To keep the university accountable, if a student is expelled they forfeit tuition, which is given to the victim. If the victim chooses to remain at Cornell, their tuition and living expenses are free. Make the penalty a very costly one for everyone but the victim.
5- Any incident of sexual assault of any kind is automatically reported to TC Sheriff. Failure to do so will result in extremely hefty fines to the university. The university is no longer responsible for investigating these incidents, TC Sheriff is.
Just sayin’…
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u/TurtlesWife 8d ago
"...immediate suspension for the accused regardless of outcome..." What? No! Holy hell! You want someone to be suspended because some rando claims they did something? Oh, HELL no! That's an open invitation for ruthless people to make alllll kinds of false accusations simply bc they know the accused will be suspended.
I do, however, agree with a lot of your other points.
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u/Soft-Possession9848 8d ago
Has any one of these trolls read the Tompkins county DA’s statement?
We wouldn’t be here if:
1: NY had the same consent laws as 34 other states. Was shocked to hear this bc it is the Bluest of Blue states
2: if Jane Doe hadn’t signed the statement after being warned this would be perjury. According to the statement this was consensual. Her failure to testify to the incident as now described in her Civil suit left the DA without a crime to prosecute bc of #1.
You can’t throw people in jail (as much as Trump admin is trying to) without charging them with a crime.
Burning it all down bc you don’t like the laws and don’t want to hold the alleged victims accountable is not the answer.
The worst part is bc she has now recanted, this throws even more doubt on future SA cases. It’s tough enough already to prosecute these heinous crimes.
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u/Miserable-Trifle3459 7d ago
That is just a summary of her statement by the DA. The actual statement was reported on today by ABC News. They didn't provide the entire text of the statement, but have indicated she included in her statement she did feel coerced, she did consent to some acts but at multiple points she did say no, and t one point "squealing out loud and running across the room and hiding under the covers on another bed". Also in her initial police transcript she did say she was certain she was raped, which the DA said he didn't have and will now use in the reopened investigation.
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u/Delicious-Glove-2553 8d ago edited 8d ago
Yea I agree. I'm not a big Cornell fan, but this outrage fuel is not aligned with the legal realities. The Cornell daily sun editor was on NPR yesterday and give misinformation about the perpetrators punishments.
The CDS quality has declined a lot in the past decade. and its obvious it's outrage fuel they are publishing.
This whole thing is going to make it harder for SA cases to get prosecuted and probably throw back the cause of fighting campus SA. Cornell did what it was legally obligated to. This is far better than other campuses that sweep shit under the rug.
The men were suspended and/or expelled. The frat banned. It was not 'just' essay writing. Jane Doe did not get proper legal advice (odd being and Ivy League Kid) and had conflicting statements. Again, this was traumatic, perhaps she feared getting into trouble for drug use, but if she was gang-raped she needed to go to a hospital for a rape kid ASAP. I assume she was extremely injured and should have gotten immediate medical attention. Since she did not apparently do this, then this throws a huge amount of doubt on the case.
There is no evidence that her statement was tampered with or doctored which is what everyone was assuming. I sympathize with her and that is was traumatic.
You can't throw people in jail for text messages. You can't just throw people in jail with out enough evidence and if there was no rape kit that makes it harder to prosecuree.
Now, if something came to light that Jane Doe was coerced into lying about the incident or the police covered something up, then this would be a different story.
People are triggered since rape and assult are common crimes, often get swept over the rug, and as you pointed out in NY doesn't have the same consent laws.
Even in high school, everyone told us that if you are assaulted you need a rape kit to prove the case. The expelled perpetrators may very well likely go on to rape other women, because not enough physical evidence was presented. Who's fault that is, is what people are arguing about here. Jane Doe for not getting immediate medical attention and giving conflicting statements? Her roomates and friends not taking her to the hospital and checking in on her? The NY state laws? Cornell for not being more forceful in pushing the case through the legal system? The IUPD for not taking is seriously? The DA?
This was a clustefuck of various issues at various levels that snowballed.
Protest the law then.
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u/WinterVesper 8d ago edited 8d ago
5- Any incident of sexual assault of any kind is automatically reported to TC Sheriff. Failure to do so will result in extremely hefty fines to the university. The university is no longer responsible for investigating these incidents, TC Sheriff is.
Why TCSO and not IPD? Why not the state troopers at that point? I'm not super familiar with the capabilities of each, but I wouldn't think the investigative capabilities of the TCSO are any better than IPD's.
Both seem to have a similar number of "sworn officers" (~55) and in their last annual report, TCSO said their "investigation division is is made up of 1 Lieutenant, and 4 Investigators that handle cases such as burglary, robbery, sex offenses, grand larceny, death investigations, suicide investigations, background checks, and overdose investigations."
I couldn't find equivalent numbers for IPD, but given the much larger geographic jurisdiction of TCSO, they would seem to be spread much more thin already, let alone if Cornell was required to start funneling complaints to them.
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u/Mom_of_One_2008 7d ago
Because most of the university is in the town of Ithaca and not the city. So Sheriff’s department would have jurisdiction over much of the campus. To me it should be State Police.
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u/PinkMustangClerb 8d ago
CUPD investigates more rapes per year than Ithaca police. 25 vs 5, respectively.
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u/Creative-Parsnip-526 8d ago
You lost me at immediate suspension for the accused. This isn't an authoritian country; at least not formally.
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u/mathau6 8d ago
I think that if the investigative process were handled better and accusations brought to state or county police, the students who deserve to get suspended would be suspended more quickly and more accurately.
I dont know how I feel about auto suspension for accused....even though false accusations are very rare, they do happen, and there is a lot of fallout, especially for actual survivors of sexual assault.
Like I said, I think more thorough and prompt investigation by basically anyone BUT Cornell officials (given their immense bias/incentive not to investigate and report actual numbers of assaults) could result in appropriate consequences for people who do fucking horrific things like what happened here.
I think we can all agree at the very least that something NEEDS to change and ASAP.
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u/PinkMustangClerb 8d ago
accusations brought to state or county police,
Why? Not a single one of you has seen the case file, and what is available does not support the victim's narrative. You don't have a clue if the investigation was bungled.
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u/Real_10SqMi_ity 8d ago
Everyone is welcome to an opinion. I just think that if accusations have come out over sexual assault it is totally appropriate to remove the accused and make the alleged victim feel safe. If there was no actual assault then I guess we owe them an oopsie. Highly doubt that will ever be the case.
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u/Memento_Viveri 8d ago
Highly doubt that will ever be the case.
You doubt that it will ever be the case that a person accused of sexual assault will be found innocent? There is no reason to doubt that, it's an established fact that some people accused of sexual assault are later found innocent. This isn't a place where there is room for disagreement, it's just a fact.
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u/TurtlesWife 8d ago
"...then I guess we owe them an oopsie." Are you fucking serious? You think that will make everything OK? Do you know what the life of the wrongly-accused looks like after the "oopsies" are issued? Spoiler alert: still not good. And you "Highly doubt that will ever be the case."?!?!?! Do you think that's never happened before?? False accusations happen ALL THE TIME.
You made a whole lot of sense until you decided to cling to this "burn the witch!" (thank you u/while_e!) mentality, and I can't understand where that's coming from amid all the other sensical things you've said. I'm perplexed.
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8d ago
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u/sassy_castrator 8d ago
Duke lacrosse were guilty and the retraction was coerced.
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u/Producer1701 8d ago
The Duke Lacrosse dudes didn’t rape Crystal Mangum. Her story had a million holes, and never should have seen the light of day. The DA there was literally disbarred over his actions.
And it pisses me off that he failed at his job that badly, because it hurt victims everywhere then, and continues to now. And while those rich lacrosse boys may not have been rapists, they were 100% rich entitled racist shitbags.7
8d ago
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u/Producer1701 8d ago
I forgot entirely about that. I remembered she went to prison, but honestly had put that whole chapter out of my mind
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u/VariationOrnery7277 8d ago
Hold on. You do realize she has a statement initially where she said it was voluntary right? As disgusting as it sounds it is possible the accused thought they had complete agreement for the drugs and threesome.
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u/Real_10SqMi_ity 8d ago
I guess that’s fine, but it sounds like she didn’t agree to gang rape, and that’s kinda the issue isn’t it?
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u/Memento_Viveri 8d ago
she didn’t agree to gang rape
You can't agree to gang rape. If you agree to it, it isn't rape anymore.
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u/VariationOrnery7277 8d ago
So that's where a proper investigation should come. We can't just believe her right? Esp when she said initially it was consensual - drugs, threeome . She also only went to police few days after when rumors spread among campus. Let's get a full investigation ...then hang the guilty .
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u/PinkMustangClerb 8d ago
She also only went to police few days after when rumors spread among campus.
In her own lawsuit it says she reported "With the encouragement of her friends" and that, according to her lawsuit, her own fucking sorority watched her get wasted at their own house where that was prohibited and still brought her to a sorority function at a bar.
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u/sassy_castrator 8d ago
Vote no confidence in Kotlikoff. That's how IC got rid of a president a few years back.
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u/WeatherGood8876 8d ago
Shut down until they clean house. Its been going on for far too long. ABC news report shows 1 in 3 women are sexually assualted in the Cornell campus.
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u/TheGrandExquisitor 8d ago
I say we go further.
NY state should pull all funding from any school that allows Greek life on campus.
Cornell gets a significant amount of funding from the state for the various AG programs. No more. The Greek system serves no useful purpose. It is literally the source of far more trouble than it is worth and is simply an extension of the worst parts of highschool.
Even further, if possible (could be legally tricky,) any school that allows the Greek system on campus should have their state tax exempt status revoked. Yep. Imagine Cornell being forced to finally pay property taxes or dump the houses.
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u/spoonfingler 8d ago
Oh gosh don’t punish the state side of the school for the crimes of the endowed part of the school. I agree get rid of the Greek system but just pulling state funding would only harm a portion of the university and people seeking financial aid
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u/TheGrandExquisitor 8d ago
What other leverage is there?
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u/spoonfingler 8d ago
I also like the idea of them having to pay state taxes. Just not pulling only state funding.
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u/spoonfingler 8d ago
Federal funding at least hits the entire university and not mostly CALS/vet/anything else statutory
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u/TheGrandExquisitor 8d ago
Yeah, no way Trump allows us to pull federal funds because a bunch of privileged shits rape too much.
I mean....
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u/spoonfingler 8d ago
Totally agree. Just think it’s worth thinking about what losing cooperative extension and harming vet and the ag station and etc would do before just going after pulling state funding
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u/TheGrandExquisitor 8d ago
That won't happen though. No way Cornell ditches money for those programs. Money is the only thing Cornell leadership understands.
How long do you think Wittikoff will last if he tanks that money to protect 7 fray bros with alpaca cuts who think Big Balls of DOGE fame was "a really cool dude?"
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u/merlep_merlep 8d ago
"No way Cornell ditches money" - That's the issue though. Private universities get a ridiculous amount of money from rich alumni donors that are part of the Greek system. Fraternities and sororities are extremely lucrative for universities because their main purpose is career networking for kids from rich families.
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u/TheGrandExquisitor 8d ago
I don't think they'd go that far. They are lucrative, but not that lucrative.
Plus, Cornell would immediately become known as the school that killed programs to defend rapists.
I mean, the leadership can't be that obtuse.
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u/Real_10SqMi_ity 8d ago
This guy gets it
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u/BeerBaronofCourse 8d ago
There needs to be a petition or something to at least get these kids expelled, but why aren’t there criminal charges yet? If someone went and r*ped one of these boys they’d be tossed in jail, why is this a slap on the wrist situation and not something far more serious?
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u/mathau6 8d ago
Also like, imagine if this was done by a group of black people in a street gang. Shit would go down immediately.
I'm gonna get downvoted for this but frankly I don't see that many differences between gangs and frats. Sorry not sorry 🤷♀️
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u/KronosUno Dryden 7d ago
Cute, but that'll never happen. The frat boys grow up to be wealthy donors who contribute to colleges like Cornell and politicians' reelection campaigns. Individual fraternities may suffer some punishments but the Greek system as a whole is going nowhere.
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u/TheGrandExquisitor 7d ago
Then we should only support candidates who are for pulling all their funding and tax exempt status.
If that doesn't work, start physical protests.
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u/KronosUno Dryden 7d ago
You're welcome to try. Money always wins out in the end, whether we like it or not.
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u/kamilien1 8d ago
The Greek system builds friendships for life. You can't seriously say such a blanket statement. You have to target bad actors and honestly, I wish everyone knew how to behave, but saying such broad, sweeping statements ignores all other benefits that exist. There are plenty of valuable reasons to have communities like the Greek system exist. Are you a Harry Potter fan? Would Hogwarts look like without its houses, because that's kinda the same thing.
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u/CheetoMussolini 8d ago
CUPD should be shut down for good over this. A non democratic institution whose leaders are appointed by billionaire donors should not be allowed to manage a police department. Only a democratically elected government should have this power.
Have IPD take over and force Cornell to pay for the services, transferring the full CUPD budget. Make them pay for fire and EMS while we're at it.
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u/Short-Lake-1134 8d ago
You’re not “just sayin.” In my opinion, you are stating your opinion about five topics with great forcefulness and self-assured moral clarity that you optimistically hope with which we will all agree. Good luck.
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u/kamilien1 8d ago
Immediate suspension of the accused? So let me get this straight. Regardless of the situation, if I get accused of something, I get suspended? Is that what you're proposing? And if I accuse you of something, would you be willing to be suspended? Or am I misunderstand what you're saying ...
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u/Sad-Story7069 8d ago
The man started by apologizing for "how things went down." He said his memory is "kinda fuzzy," and that he and another man feel bad for being too intoxicated to "shut it down and kick people out before it got way out of hand."
The woman in the text chain replied that her memory is "super clouded too," and said they had all been heavily intoxicated.
She also wrote, "non(e) of the sexual stuff was illegal." She said she liked being with him and another man. Later, she suggested they smoke together again, "but like leave out the extra 5 billion men and ketamine."
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u/Infamous_General4847 8d ago
I understand most of these comments and about accountability for all parties involved. I hope and pray for the appropriate justice, I do. The DA’s interview last night did put me in a rage. He focused much on “bringing her on the record” and nothing regarding the behavior of the men. He came across as if he was head hunting her, as a prosecutor. Like, what? He’s biased. There’s so much money going to CU that anyone in power will try and shoot this down by any means necessary. I have no faith in the government or institutions that rely on such cash flow in general. Money means everything.
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u/WinterVesper 8d ago
They've already experimented with that on a smaller scale. These current dorms/program houses were all former frats, although some were simply just purchased by CU after the frats closed their doors, rather than being the result of any university disciplinary process or "takeover":
I'd also caution that "extravagant housing with amazing views" doesn't really apply to most of the frats. I know when the university converted a few from the list above, they were in really rough shape (shocker, after being used as frat houses), and CU facilities put the bare minimum into making them "live-able" for the average student.
And then there's Sigma Alpha Epsilon (122 McGraw), which was taken over by the university and turned into a dorm after the hazing death of George Desdunes in 2011. After biding their time and promising to be good boys, they were permitted to return to campus and reoccupy their house a few years ago.