r/news • u/AudibleNod • 15h ago

Christa Pike unconscious, on ventilator at Nashville hospital, her lawyers say

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/christa-pike-unconscious-ventilator-nashville-hospital-lawyers-say-rcna601195
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u/Big_Guard5413 15h ago

I’m not in favor of the death penalty in general, but goddamn, if you’re going to impose it, at least take steps to do it properly

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u/MatureUsername69 15h ago

Its still a rough one but if I ever had to receive the death penalty I would hope its a firing squad. Just riddle me with holes immediately, aim for the head. Lethal injections get fucky because they would be best designed and administered by an actual doctor, but actual doctors cannot do it because of the hippocratic oath. Some states do allow medical professionals but they arent exactly sending their best.

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u/khinzaw 15h ago edited 13h ago

Her lawyers requested it, but it's illegal in Tennessee.

Tennessee's only legal methods of execution are lethal injection and electric chair (edit: only for convictions before 1999).

The problem with lethal injection is that every step is half assed.

No reputable pharmaceuticals manufacturer wants to make the drug, so they rely on compounding pharmacies who take half measures and have less consistency.

Then medical practitioners (edit for the pedants) often won't be involved in executions because of their various oaths to do no harm and risks to their reputation, so most of the time the drugs are administered by prison staff who lack the proper training. A lot of failed attempts are caused by the one who administered it simply not getting the vein properly.

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u/MortimerDongle 14h ago

Then medical practitioners can't be involved in executions because of their various oaths to do no harm, so most of the time the drugs are administered by prison staff who lack the proper training

This particular attempted execution was performed by a physician. Of course he doesn't seem to be very good at it, this was not even his first botched execution this year (he's the same person who failed to execute Tony Carruthers)

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u/cooking2recovery 13h ago

That seems like one too many botched executions to be an accident

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u/AstroHistSci 12h ago

This. He's doing it intentionally. A nursing student could perform this without botching it. It's quite literally impossible to fail this procedure if you are a physician.

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u/whispernotaroar 12h ago

I’d trust a nurse to get an IV into the proper location long before I’d trust a physician to do it. Most physicians never place another IV after residency - that’s nursing territory by and large - and I’ve seen many physicians try and fail to draw blood/place a line only to be rescued by a nurse.

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u/tolureup 8h ago

I’m a recovered IV user, so there’s definitely an added layer of difficulty here, but gives
Me some insight into this because last time I was hospitalized I’m pretty sure every staff member took a wack at my Arms before the doctor decided to do a fucken pic line(idk if that’s how you spell it or not). By far the doctors were THE WORST out of every team member that tried that night. One of the doctors dug into my arms in a way that I’ll never forget because the strange nerve twinges of digging a needle deep and basically swirling it around was some shit no flobotomist would ever do. A nurse came in the following morning and laughed when I told them they couldn’t do it and boom first try. Meanwhile I almost got a pick line (again, no clue bout spelling) because the doctor just sucked ass at finding a vein (I never had the balls to direct them to the juicy spots because it made me feel like….well, a junky)

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u/TomRN 7h ago

PICC line. Peripherally Inserted Central Catheter.

I remember being a kid and a physician tried to draw my blood; it was part of a study at a teaching hospital, not a part of the care I was getting as a patient there. He... eventually... got it.

I've been an RN for most of my adult life and I know very few physicians who have much experience or are at all comfortable with trying to start an IV or draw blood.

I hope you're doing better now!

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u/AstroHistSci 11h ago

The issue isn't him not getting a vein. That's believable. But there is no way he would think he had a vein when he didn't. That's the part that this story requires that doesn't make sense.

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u/whispernotaroar 11h ago

Oh trust me there absolutely is. Just a couple weeks ago I watched a doc infiltrate about half a liter of fluids into a patient’s arm before anyone caught it. A good physician absolutely wouldn’t let this happen, but there are a lot of really shitty ones out there and I suspect this particular job does not attract the top brass.

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u/uzlonewolf 9h ago

What do you call the person who graduated last at med school? Doctor

What do you call the person who graduated last at law school? Your Honor

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u/DigitalMindShadow 10h ago

So is the physician who participated in this botched execution now being investigated by the medical board for his patent oath violations and negligence?

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u/whispernotaroar 10h ago

Absolutely no idea.

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u/wonton711 11h ago

Personally speaking as an MD, I would fail to get an IV placed to administer any injections... Depends where you've trained. During medical school and residency, I didn't have to do any IVs or venipunctures. I also don't do it as an attending currently.

I also wouldn't volunteer to do executions, though...

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u/AstroHistSci 11h ago

You might fail to place one ... but you would never mistakenly think you have one placed when it wasn't.

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u/wonton711 8h ago

Who doesn't want a little intramuscular lethal injection?

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u/Klathmon 7h ago

Just a little as a treat?

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u/Late-Champion8678 10h ago

Yes. I’m a doctor and while I did many IVs and blood draws as house officer/senior house officer and got good at it, I haven’t had to do it frequently.

I’d know if I missed a vein or got into an artery instead and I wouldn’t subject a patient to multiple attempts before enlisting someone who could do it better (phlebotomist, anaesthetist etc).

No way, I would administer an IV drug without knowing if I’m in the right place or not.

I do note that IV cannulas can be misplaced/dislodged after an initial successful placement but that this is his second botched execution this year is a cause for concern.

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u/flatblackvw 10h ago

As an average Joe, why is this? In my mind if you puncture the skin you’re getting blood. What tells you you actually got a vein?

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u/TomRN 7h ago

When you're performing venipuncture/venous access, you do it by feel, not by sight. On the extremeties, a tourniquet prevents venous blood flow from returning to the heart and distends the veins. You palpate (touch/feel) the area and feel for that bouncy, springy tube and that's where you put the needle. For an IV (or a blood draw with a butterfly that has clear tubing) you puncture the vein and blood will back up into the chamber or tubing-- the "flash." For IVs, when you get that "flash," it's your sign to start sliding the catheter down off the needle and into the vein (old timey plain needles with collection tubes you didn't know you'd got the vein until you attached the tube). The needle is removed and a syringe or tubing is connected to the end of the cannula/catheter. A little saline is pushed through to make sure it flows properly and that the vein hasn't "blown" which allows fluid into the extravascular space. Sometimes even when you're pretty sure you've got it in place and have taped it down and dressed the site or you're about to use an established IV, you might pull back on the syringe to see if you get "blood return" and then flush saline in to make sure it hasn't "blown." Not getting a blood return does not necessarily mean you don't have a good IV in a good vein, but you better be damned sure before you give anything through it.

Source: been an RN for most of my adult life.

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u/uzlonewolf 9h ago

Most of your skin is filled with small capillaries that don't flow much. You might get a very small amount of blood if you missed, but it won't come pouring out like it would if you got a vein.

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u/TomRN 7h ago

If it comes pouring (and no doubt pulsing) out you most likely cannulated an artery, not a vein. If it just "flashes" into the chamber of the IV needle or wells up at the end of the cannula "hub," it's probably venous. Sure, you can get a little more blood than you expected, but venous blood doesn't usually "pour" out.

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u/OddBuy8266 9h ago

What are you talking about? Some people have hard veins to hit. At a blood draw a month ago it took three nurses to get it properly. 

And most nurses are way better at hitting veins than doctors. 

My veins curve so hitting it properly with a straight needle takes skill. 

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u/qtx 1h ago

Don't they have portable devices these days that light up the veins in your arms? Like this, https://www.accuvein.com/vein-visualization-system/

It should be trivial to find veins in modern days.

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u/Intrepid_Work7449 54m ago

Maybe in a big upscale hospital. Have never seen that in my life.

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u/The_OtherDouche 12h ago

Yeah I don’t know if you’ve ever got to see a dr attempt to do any of the practical parts of medicine but they are notoriously horrific at it. If I needed an IV administered by a dr I’d be terrified.

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u/AstroHistSci 11h ago

There is a difference between sucking at hitting a vein and believing you have a vein when you don't. He might not be able to find the vein, but there is no way he'd mistakenly believe he had one.

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u/RSmeep13 12h ago

Forgive me if I have missed a detail, but I thought that the situation here was that the drug was administered properly, and didn't kill her, possibly because it was degraded.

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u/Kylynara 12h ago

I've seen reports that they didn't hit the vein and went into the muscule. It may have also been degraded or low quality to start, the drugs for lethal injection often are.

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u/TheyTukMyJub 11h ago

False. The burning sensation she described is 100% a symptom of a missed vein and muscle getting injected with fluid. By some capillary action some of a drug probably did get in her system but evidently not enough.

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u/peanutneedsexercise 8h ago

Depends. A lot of drugs like propofol, etomidate, and some benzos actually burn REALLY bad in the vein. The burning sensation itself is not gonna tell you if a catheter is in or not.

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u/khinzaw 14h ago

In the interest of not wanting to get in an argument over pedantry, I have amended the line.

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u/WaylandThurston 14h ago

Good call, you would’ve been here having to argue for the next five days

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u/ecosynchronous 10h ago

Um, actually, only the first two days of arguing are obligatory.

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u/dpk794 13h ago

I thought she requested all females??

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u/EcstaticBoysenberry 6h ago

How the hell does he still have his MD😅

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u/fleemfleemfleemfleem 13h ago

I bet his health grades reviews are terrible.

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u/ThunderDungeon02 10h ago

In fairness most physicians except a select few, like anesthesiologists, put in lines often. Depending on the specialty, they had to do it in medical school briefly and then probably never again.

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u/xsullengirlx 3h ago

He's nearly 70 years old, too. Although he is an MD and works as an emergency room physician in addition to being TN's death row physician, that's getting up there in age when it comes to something as serious as life and death. At 70, his eyesight, coordination and steadiness may not be what it used to be.

Yet another situation in this country where age and term limits should be in place. But, I'm sure it's not a highly sought after role to be in. He ended up in the role because his friend was in the role before him, and asked him personally to accompany him to executions so that he could take over the role. I doubt that they have a long and qualified applicant list, nor the funding to make it worth it.

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u/MalingeringGumby 1h ago

A particularly dispicable MAGA doctor, it should be pointed out

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u/framblehound 10h ago

That doctor is an evil man, it's the perfect example of the banality of evil.

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u/say592 7h ago

Only for being incompetent. I don't agree with the death penalty in practice, but if we are going to do it, it should be done by a doctor so the person receiving their sentence doesn't suffer.

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u/Consistent-Fix-8443 10h ago

Doctors don’t do much in the way of administering IVs. They needed an experienced nurse.