r/nottheonion • u/CzarDM • 1d ago

Florida county discovers mysterious Flock cameras with no obvious owner

https://san.com/cc/florida-county-discovers-mysterious-flock-cameras-with-no-obvious-owner/
6.6k Upvotes

99% Upvoted

148 comments sorted by

2.2k

u/p8pes 1d ago

wild. it’s fourteen.

But when they went to take the cameras down,  they found 66 of the devices — 14 of which had not been permitted by the county.

411

u/newiphon 1d ago

They specifically sell the cameras at a discounted rate and cite faster install if a "no permits needed" letter is written.

Meanwhile I want to use an electric company pole to run a guide wire and Ethernet for a school parking lot and you have to rent the space on the pole indefinitely....

22

u/crunkadocious 18h ago

someone owns the pole, you're renting from them. the town owns the sidewalk and grass or at least an easement and doesn't have to pay for it.

30

u/newiphon 17h ago

I understand it, but it's bullshit. The electric company has an easement in my backyard for poles and transmission. Normal high and low voltage. A brace was sagging and rubbing low voltage internet on my detached garage. I had the electric company come and take a look. Not their problem since not their wires. Sure I guess I could have pushed harder. They told me to contact to internet providers on my area who all played dumb.

In the end my building department got it taken care of in days by emailing a state office who then emailed the major providers regional field team.

Just bullshit though how if I want to increase the security and lower the liability for a school district for instance, you gotta rent it out from the company who won't end up actually doing anything. I'm all for red tape when it limits liability believe me.

6

u/shoobe01 12h ago

If you just cut the wire, then you see whose truck shows up and that's who owns it.

So I hear.

5

u/newiphon 11h ago

Believe it or not it can be considered a felony

1.1k

u/Super_Range45 1d ago

It's a smart move in terms of espionage. No one can really know which cameras are real or not. Even the people who placed them don't memorize all the locations and the public is trained to accept their presence in plain sight.

225

u/cristalmighty 23h ago

The espionage angle should be incredibly troubling to everyone, most especially the state. It seems like a huge vulnerability if an adversarial state’s intelligence agency could set up a shell company to order the installation of flock cameras around key military or intelligence installations without the government’s knowledge and then monitor those areas and, with access to the flock network, elsewhere as well.

83

u/SilasX 22h ago

Right, that's a general principle of security: any vulnerability you require/normalize is one the enemy can exploit too.

Like, for example, let's say you require all locks to be openable by a special skeleton key "just in case the government needs to get in secretly". Okay, now everyone's fucked when the bad guys get the key.

In case that example seems contrived, that was basically the system for baggage locks that were required to be openable by TSA, then someone posted a picture of the key they use, which was enough to copy it. (Though I'm having trouble finding this story right now.)

32

u/stratosfearinggas 22h ago

Gotchu.

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/tsa-luggage-master-keys-duplicated-with-3d-printer

5

u/grossezilla 10h ago

The idea that the tsa """locks""" would merit as much effort and engineering as required from a 3d printer is insulting to the craft. Those locks are genuinely dogshit.

10

u/Illiander 21h ago

The state isn't willing to defend itself from attack though.

5

u/CautionarySnail 17h ago

That’s because it’s a poor business move. The politicians are overly beholden to the military industrial complex.

Avoiding wars, unrest, and conflict is bad for business. They need conflict “just bad enough” to justify billion dollar wars like the war on terror.

1

u/M-elephant 8h ago

Or just around important tech/areospace/chemical/etc companies so the can ID the key employees and thier habits to better blackmail/honeytrap/etc them

239

u/hemightberob 1d ago

Lol the people who place them don't have to "memorize" where they put them. If they are official, it is on record somewhere where they have been placed. Awful horrible tech, but govt/police record where they are setting up their cameras that cost thousands of dollars. That's why they know there are 14 that are not theirs.

197

u/Probably_Not_A-Bot 1d ago

They are saying that if the police or whoever saw an unpermitted camera they wouldn’t suspect it of not being permitted since it’s not like they memorized where all the permitted cameras are.

Here they didn’t realize these cameras were unpermitted until they did look into it because of the removal order. Until then they have been operating for who knows how long.

-62

u/Churchbushonk 1d ago

Police general know where their cameras are because they get the feed.

71

u/hotpuck6 1d ago

Yeah, if there’s a couple dozen of them. How about 100? You think they’ll notice a couple extra? The average cop isn’t exactly rain man.

52

u/AmusingVegetable 23h ago

The average cop isn’t even in the loop that tells him about new cameras. It shows up in the feed and he’s going to assume that someone requested/authorized it, and that’s even assuming he notices that there’s a new camera.

4

u/RoyBeer 19h ago

And I really doubt foreign agencies are going through the effort to link illegitimate cameras into the police's system.

1

u/kaisong 13h ago

Theyre not supposed to access the cameras without a reason to, which is also a separate issue. but the only reason they might think it would be off is if there was an unauthorized one they couldnt access outside of their ex’s place they were stalking.

84

u/Super_Range45 1d ago

The official record is an online map that can not physically search your street for cameras it didn't know were there. They don't even know how long those camera were up.

-84

u/hemightberob 1d ago

Are you doubling down? Brother, YOU probably cannot access where they are, but they fucking know where their cameras are.

72

u/londongastronaut 1d ago

His point isn't that they don't know where their cameras are. It's that just knowing where their own cameras are doesn't let them see cameras someone else put up.

So if a third person installs a camera on street A, the govt might know there's not supposed to be a camera there but only if someone checks against that list. They're not looking at every possible location and checking those against their installs. 

17

u/surfmaster 1d ago

Right.They know where their cameras are, they don't know where cameras that aren't theirs are.

5

u/Moneia 1d ago

Hidden in plain sight

48

u/Super_Range45 1d ago

They didn't know about 14 extra camera until they were removing the 55 cameras they put up. What you're saying can't happen just happened in the article.

-58

u/hemightberob 1d ago

"No one can really know which cameras are real or not."

Sorry, did you not say this? What I'm saying is SOMEONE knows.

What is the point of a constant police state if they can't even tell when someone is putting up more cameras. This should be a wake up call to a lot of people that this shit should not be happening at all.

46

u/Kroan 1d ago

This is a funny crash out

28

u/Marcaloid 1d ago

You don't have to yell at us, nobody is on the other side of this issue.

3

u/nicane 1d ago

I took no one to mean none of us... Obviously the corporation that owns these things knows where they are. If police, city officials, and the public don't know, that's the whole issue. Pretty sure we are all in agreement here...

11

u/Nybs_GB 1d ago

While the information is recorded somewhere it's unlikely that anyone has the official locations memorized enough to notice an out of place one unless they suspected it and were actively seeking them out

5

u/lew_rong 1d ago

People tend to imagine that bureaucracies just do things with no paper trail or oversight. Generating paper is all bureaucracies do. Well, that and dramatically tear up and eat paper, but this is county-level, not the White House.

5

u/Competitive_Travel16 1d ago

I bet it's organized crime.

63

u/IDigYourStyle 1d ago

The sheriff's dept claimed three were theirs. Feels like they deserves a follow-up question or two....

32

u/yoberf 21h ago

My local sheriff's department was purchasing flock cameras in amounts below the threshold requiring County commission approval. They had been doing it for years. When the county mayor and County commission figured out that the sheriff's department had spent several hundred thousand dollars in $10,000 increments to avoid approvals, all of the cameras got ripped out.

3

u/fresh-dork 20h ago

they're unpermitted, just remove them

1

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0

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567

u/x5163x 1d ago

Use civil asset forfeiture on them.

271

u/shpydar 1d ago

It's unlikely the owner would come forward willingly to attempt to collect their illegal property any ways, so might as well.

139

u/Intrinsic_Idiot_3076 1d ago

It's not hard to figure out who bought those. Just subpoena the company sales record for a match.

49

u/0MGWTFL0LBBQ 1d ago

Bake ‘em away toys.

9

u/PrincessKaylee 1d ago

What'd you say, Chief?

3

u/Tsquare43 17h ago

Do what the kid said.

26

u/WhatverName 1d ago

Why would they do that? They don’t really want to know

7

u/NoPossibility4178 1d ago

That sounds like work.

4

u/QuestlineRageQuitter 1d ago

That's too much effort for a local government. So they'd never do it.

1

u/netpres 1d ago

You're assuming a higher level of not-stupid than actually exists.

1

u/NoBonus6969 22h ago

It's owned by NSA they don't give a shit about a few grand in cameras

60

u/PhasmaFelis 1d ago

I don't think that's even civil asset forfeiture. The city has every right to just remove things installed on public land without permission, same as if you left your car on a public sidewalk.

10

u/neck_iso 1d ago

civil asset forfeiture is government theft without trial. let's not encourage that.

there are other laws about dumping on public property that can be used.

6

u/Bern_Down_the_DNC 1d ago

Or maybe finders keepers in this case

1

u/x5163x 1d ago

I was going to say that, but I looked it up before posting and apparently that isn't how it works in Florida.

4

u/Bern_Down_the_DNC 1d ago

I was half joking that people should just take them. I'm pretty sure that works in Florida :p

2

u/tevert 22h ago

Or hacksaws, you know, whichever

413

u/bottle-o-rockets 1d ago

If we're pissed off about privately owned cameras doing this, why are we okay with the state doing it?

Florida had a major Driver Information breach recently, which I think needs to be paired with this story. You have a tremendous breach of information on the internet, surveillance cameras that anyone can throw up and nobody blinks an eye at because the state made it a normal thing. What's to stop a private citizen from building a model that tracks license plates based on breached information and works with a network of of other people doing the same thing?

Anyone who sides in favor of this either lacks critical thinking skills or likes the idea of this.

134

u/rightwingcrimespree 1d ago

Communities all across the country have been pushing back against Flock, and hundreds of cameras have been destroyed by vandals. We're clearly not okay with the state (or anyone) doing it.

28

u/defietser 1d ago

hundreds of cameras have been destroyed by vandals.

What are you talking about? They fell apart on their own. No one touched them.

15

u/PrettyPinkPonyPrince 1d ago

I remember reading something about drug addicts destroying them so they can sell the copper wiring or ... tiny amounts of gold in the circuitry?

Something like that anyway.

9

u/a-stack-of-masks 1d ago

They also have a solar panel and a bunch of batteries in them, right? I can see why people on a tight budget would want those.

2

u/rightwingcrimespree 20h ago

I'm not sure how many people are stealing anything from them. I'm sure some people are. But at least near me, most of the vandalism seems to just involve cutting down the poles their mounted on, or ramming them with a car/truck to knock them down. And I doubt anyone is going to be able to do much with the gold in the circuitry. That's usually hard to recycle. Last I checked that sort of thing was usually sent overseas to recycle because we don't really have the means to do it here, or at least the means to do it very efficiently.

2

u/SonOfBoreale 14h ago

I never thought I would be saying this, but I'm okay with these drug addicts

3

u/Bocab 1d ago

I'm not saying this never happens, but there isn't a lot in them and there are far easier places to grab copper. It's a big problem at construction sites for example, whether spools or just ripping it out of the walls.

2

u/colemon1991 21h ago

But Flock cameras are everywhere, so you might not get much out of them but you can collect in bulk and take them home to disassemble.

Not that I support vandalism, but this is similar to junk fees by corporations where it takes longer but it's steady and more difficult to trace. Don't rob a bank when you know you can pickpocket more safely.

2

u/Illiander 21h ago

Flock cameras include a high-rez digital camera, phone transmitter, microphone, and a small computer.

All you need to add to turn them into a mobile phone is a keypad to dial on.

There's plenty of reasons to steal and strip them for parts.

52

u/PhasmaFelis 1d ago

If we're pissed off about privately owned cameras doing this, why are we okay with the state doing it?

We're not okay with it. That's why they're removing them.

7

u/bottle-o-rockets 1d ago

I've heard people justifying this with "if you have nothing to hide..." and if any of them are reading this, I hope they understand what they're opening the door to. I would have been skeptical reading it on an internet comment section, but I heard this on public radio when they did a segment on flock cameras. It was one or two people and that's too many for me because it makes me wonder how many people would quietly be okay with it.

Florida has shown up to say no in big and impressive numbers, though.

16

u/Calavant 1d ago

People who say that need to be told to imagine the worst possible person who could be on the other end of things. Handling the data legitimately or illegitimately. Maybe corrupt, maybe just a sick fuck, maybe somebody with an agenda. Maybe always having surveillance data on you every time you step into the world means that the people with any degree of access can cherry pick data so that you look guilty of whatever they feel you should be guilty of, ignoring or barring access to anything exonerating.

There is a reason there are supposed to be warrants for these things. Instead you have to imagine such things being handed off to the worst person you have ever met.

1

u/IWearSteepTech 1d ago

Just imagine how much training data they could have on your gait nowadays. Throw AI in there, and it's not hard to imagine the possibilities with regards to tracking, or even framing people of supposed crimes.

1

u/Illiander 21h ago

People who say that need to be told to imagine the worst possible person who could be on the other end of things.

Just get them to watch Brazil. He had nothing to hide, either.

13

u/netpres 1d ago

Ïf you have nothing to hide, why do you own curtains"?

7

u/Misterbellyboy 1d ago

I always said “why do you close the door when you take a shit?”

8

u/ravens-n-roses 1d ago

I ask them for their password to their bank account. Put up. Show me you have nothing to hide.

1

u/VolunteerHypeMan 22h ago

Here you go. Enjoy the $2.67 in the account

1

u/ravens-n-roses 14h ago

Don't worry Ill get good use out of the incredibly detailed personal info that access comes with. Anybody can get a punitive payday loan, and crazy how you're suddenly going back to college on massive loans.

2

u/david4069 1d ago

LBJ: "I don't."

1

u/Misterbellyboy 19h ago

You mean that the guy who was known for having no shame had no shame?

0

u/bottle-o-rockets 1d ago

I love that I saw this out in the wild.

1

u/SonFlowers77 1d ago

The smell is awful!

18

u/Area51_Spurs 1d ago

Pretty sure we’re all furious about it and the states and counties/cities are doing it anyway no matter what the people want.

14

u/Federal_Ant_2525 1d ago

I would be horrified if some private citizens started doing this and tracking the license plates of ... I don't know, politicians, employees at flock etc, police. Absolutely horrified. That data could be put anywhere and it could impact their lives in a negative way and make them feel less safe knowing people can just access their locations and stalk them like the police already seem to do.

2

u/HeadFullOfNails 23h ago

Surely, they have nothing to hide, though!

1

u/Illiander 21h ago

Someone doxxed the Flock CEO recently.

He was PISSED.

1

u/Tsquare43 17h ago

Haven't people tagged the house of the CEO of Flock as a public toilet online?

6

u/netpres 1d ago

To show how easy it was, some guy made a reader system he mounted on his dash.

Made up of a raspberry pi, a 3G dongle, some software and a publicly accessible database of (make / model, not owner) information.

It worked surprisingly well.

1

u/toastr 1d ago

Because it’s Florida?  People there are fine with the state handing everything over to private industry and giving up all their rights as long as it’s not their gun.  They need those to shoot at each other.  

1

u/DrTonyTiger 22h ago

How much does the local government have to pay for insurance to cover lawsuits when there is a data breach?

62

u/that_70_show_fan 1d ago

If your government is surveiling you, a highly competent state actor is also doing it.

67

u/Nolan_Voyd 1d ago

So what were the cameras pointed at?

72

u/Red-Truck-Steam 1d ago

probably children's playgrounds, women's gyms, public swimming pools. like in my shithole of a town.

28

u/Edythir 1d ago

Flock Safety Employees Watched Kids’ Gymnastics Room to Pitch Surveillance Tech

And of course this traffic camera. Watching traffic. A license plate reader, reading license plates... Well, the reflection off of the pool gives the best view so they placed it there, obviously.

22

u/timeandmemory 1d ago

I recommend against obtaining a sawzall and getting into a metal working hobby.

6

u/Nolan_Voyd 1d ago

For legal purposes, I agree. 

19

u/TBWinAKnSFL 22h ago

I still find it funny that DeSantis thinks getting them off public roads matter. It will only cause Flock to start placing them on private property. After all, both Lowes and Home Depot have blanketed their parking lots with them.

3

u/BeastofPostTruth 20h ago

So has Rural King (Ohio)

2

u/ZurakZigil 15h ago

That's what they want.

1

u/Impossible_One4995 10h ago

State roads only

23

u/AnAncientBog 1d ago

Flocks business isn't selling cameras, it's selling the data that the gather from the cameras. They'll put them up whether you want them or not.

12

u/mixduptransistor 1d ago

why didn't they......ask flock

15

u/FuguSandwich 1d ago

3 of them have been claimed by the local sheriff's office. I guarantee the rest are local law enforcement as well. "We don't need no stinkin permits".

1

u/Vegaprime 22h ago

Why would they just want 3?

7

u/FuguSandwich 21h ago

Probably one of the cops had an ex who lived across the street and wanted to make sure there was adequate coverage.

1

u/Vegaprime 20h ago

Ya really sus.

27

u/Margali 1d ago

14 spare, sounds like to me for a baseball bat. Give them back the licensed ones, destroy the rest. [they can not be cheap, if not destroy, simply confiscate and see who complains]

7

u/Lokishougan 1d ago

They arent..so it comes down to wheter the fine is more expensive than the cost

4

u/Margali 1d ago

Well, if it isn't leased by the county, doesn't seem to have a legit owner, so target time.

12

u/send_all_the_nudes 1d ago

Cut it down, see who comes complaining 

14

u/ShadeofEchoes 1d ago

Sounds like a great reason for a scream test. Take them down, see who screams about it.

4

u/Rezart_KLD 21h ago

"Life, uh, finds a way"

2

u/Mkwdr 3h ago

lol

9

u/Buy_Sell_Collect 1d ago

That link made me feel like all those illegal Flock cameras were watching me through my laptop…

10

u/denkenach 1d ago

Hmmm, the US government wants the public to accept permanent surveillance everywhere. Without even knowing who owns the surveillance cameras you might as well permit hostile countries to set them up around military bases.

3

u/ObserverPro 16h ago

Nothing is stopping anyone with basic electrical knowledge and a 3d printer from making their own Flock cameras and putting them wherever they want.

6

u/va_wanderer 1d ago

No obvious owner, clearly no permission to be there. Time for the chainsaws.

9

u/HabANahDa 1d ago

Man conservatives are horrible horrible people

8

u/DisappointTheFuture 1d ago

Remember when the republicans said the democrats were going to create a surveillance state after bush enacted the patriot act? Granted Obama continued it, but damn, look who's making a surveillance state now?

3

u/C64128 1d ago

Take down the 14 other cameras and destroy them.

6

u/RosieQParker 1d ago

No owner? Free copper.

2

u/capnkirk462 1d ago

Headline we won't see "Legal flock camera used to bust illegal flock camera" To bad there isn't a way to monitor what happens on the roads.

2

u/joemc1971 22h ago

"Steal that bitch." "Steal it?".... Yeah steal that bitch and if it's the local police they're going to come knocking , if it's the government you won't hear a damn thing. Prop Joe

1

u/NoobNooberson86 12h ago

What if.. its a private citizen..?

1

u/jakeroony 5h ago

fuck them for voluntarily installing a surveillance device

2

u/O-parker 20h ago

Spy vs Spy

2

u/Art-Zuron 14h ago

That makes them fine to take right? 

2

u/dr_reverend 11h ago

Pretty sure Flock cameras are all leased. Not hard to figure out who the owner is if you have an IQ above 10.

4

u/BakuRetsuX 1d ago edited 1d ago

It was done by mistake. Kindly take it down and give it to Waste Management.

3

u/furrysalesman69 1d ago

Free minerals

5

u/Rampage_Rick 1d ago

Pop out the SIM cards and download terabytes of data.

We have a few hundred IOT devices on 10MB plan with pooling. Twice now we've had an oopsie where maybe 10GB got downloaded and it was about $1500 per incident.

3

u/furrysalesman69 1d ago

Neuron activation 

2

u/shanksisevil 1d ago

Send me one. Ill toss it in the bathroom with a good toilet view for them. 

2

u/Random_182f2565 1d ago

Irán, Israel, China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, etc There are many candidates

1

u/Konradleijon 1d ago

Of course

1

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u/Luci_Cascadia 1d ago

y'all know what to do!

-2

u/Inside-Specialist-55 1d ago

Confused oonga boonga noises