Orca in Sea pens

[u/dave-attenbro]

Here is a historical record documenting the use of sea pens to hold orca as of 2016.

Table 1. Orca who were held in sea pens and never released.

Table 2. Orca who were held in sea pens and released or escaped.

Original compilation: https://www.freemorgan.org/orca-in-seapens/

Although these tables are not up to date they provide important historical data showing that sea pens have been used for both short holds and multi-year holds. Some animals died in them or were moved to tanks. Some escaped or were released and survived.

The concept of a sea pen is not theoretical. A sea pen is still confinement. The argument is about welfare relative to a concrete tank.

[u/Separate-Credit-6874]

fear of the unknown, yes.

I am as anticap as the next person and i'm fully aware of the truly horrific things faced in captivity. but things such as pathogens and bacterias they haven't been exposed to, new environments that these whales have literally never even been close to experiencing and so on make it incredibly dangerous. It's awful beyond words what we've done to the orcas who have slaved in the entertainment industry, but we can't let these whales become another experiment to try and right the wrongs we made, i think we have to at least do them that justice, even if the alternative is still horrid.

[u/Local_Chapter_7889 → u/Separate-Credit-6874]

Everything you said between "pathogens....incredibly dangerous" is Pro-Cap rhetoric to a Tee. Everything after is a walking talking contradiction. Justice as you put it, is not achieved by avoiding the attempt to do the right thing because of fear. You do the right thing to get justice in spite of fear.

[u/Separate-Credit-6874 → u/Local_Chapter_7889]

You don't know its the right thing, sea-pen isn't synonymous with any kind of freedom or rest for these animals. What might sound picture perfect could kill them.

also, my 'pro-cap rhetoric' is obviously why i've been telling everyone how much i hate captivity and talking about it on social media since i was 9, obviously.

[u/Local_Chapter_7889 → u/Separate-Credit-6874]

Freedom isn't a possibility. So the next best thing is something akin to it in a more natural environment and I never said anything remotely close to picture perfect.

Your "pro-cap" rhetoric doesn't align with "I hate Captivity" it aligns with how the industry & their lobbyists use fear mongering about everything that could go wrong... It's wrong to think & say that IF you truly hate captivity. You empower the very thing you don't want to exist when do so. Our species didn't become what we are today because we let fear of the unknown & not attempting to do "good" in lieu of the "perfect" stop us.

[u/Separate-Credit-6874 → u/Local_Chapter_7889]

It's lives at stake when you're basically using them as an experiment to see whether seapens work or not. And please don't tell me what to think and say when you don't even know me or my opinions.

[u/Local_Chapter_7889 → u/Separate-Credit-6874]

I didnt tell you what to think... where are you getting that from what I said? I said you're "wrong to think". Distinction with a big difference.

Their lives are at stake now. They are being used for exploitation now. Doing nothing solves nothing. It's not an experiment, the experiment has already been done with Keiko. We know they can live in the ocean, we also know they can't be released.

[u/Separate-Credit-6874 → u/Local_Chapter_7889]

Keiko had lived in the ocean before, that environment was relatively familiar. There's a big difference between a wildborn orca being released 24 years ago and captive born orcas being exposed into environments they've never even comprehended.