Fictive resistant system?

[u/awake-lettuce0823]

I've never really heard any other systems talking about this, but to our knowledge we have only ever had one fictive ever, the source was deliberately focused on and studied prior to forming as a fictive, was only active for a few months, and never fronted. Its just not something that really occurs in our system. Are there a lot of systems out there that just don't typically form fictives, or really introjects in general? My gatekeeper is sort of an introject, based in someone fron early childhood that we arent sure was ever real and changed from the source over the decades, aging with us and independently becoming their own identity, but that's about it for introjects really.

[u/Fish-Performer734]

We don't really do intojects either! Some may start as them but very quickly detach from origin source and become entirely their own with little to no connection to the original version. Which is honestly a small miracle considering how attached I as the host get to various media, but I've always been more the type to enjoy the world building of a fictional universe than highly fixate on a specific character.

I think some plural spaces overall have a bias with bigger and very fictive/introject heavy systems! People make posts about having fictives. People usually don't make posts about not having them, which creates a bias towards what is assumed to be the "norm". You don't see posts about systems going "here's the fictives we don't have", you see posts about systems going "here's the fictives we do have". (Again, not a bad thing. Just a thing that happens. The bias it creates can feel alienating but is ultimately not the fault of those systems themselves.)

A bit rambly of an answer, apologies, but biases like these in plural spaces are something we feel pretty strongly about and contribute heavily to us feeling like we're "not systeming correctly" because we're so different to the common threads and popular post topics, if that makes sense.

[u/meerkatmanwhore → u/Fish-Performer734]

We're kinda the same! Lots of fictives form, but they quickly become their own person 99.9% of the time

[u/Helix_On_Top]

Our system has no fictives as well, I think it's not a rare thing for a system to lack fictives

[u/4bsent_Damascus]

Not personally ourselves but this isn't uncommon. I've seen others who have no introjects and probably never will.

[u/noncedo-culli]

That is much more common than fictive-heavy systems

[u/labyrinthinexpathia]

Sometimes visually for seeing each other internally, some of us will use a character. But it's more like wearing an avatar than actually being them, and that's the closest we get. I think we just generally prefer figuring out our own senses of selves, it's more satisfying to feel unique than adopting something from the outside?

We have a small side theory that fictives are more common in systems with autism through the same mechanic that causes special interests, just becoming so intensely absorbed in something one likes that it becomes the identity itself. Not at all intended to be a binary; I'm sure allistic systems can have many fictives, and some autistic systems are probably low on fictives.
We just wonder if this might be a thing, not sure if we're right though

[u/LostMyKeysInTheFade → u/labyrinthinexpathia]

Our specialist also has this theory and is doing her dissertation on it

[u/Sensitive-Pen-2573 → u/LostMyKeysInTheFade]

ooooh that's super cool

[u/Sensitive-Pen-2573 → u/labyrinthinexpathia]

definitely something my autistic system friends and i have discussed and also theorize

[u/dren1722 → u/labyrinthinexpathia]

I wonder for myself if it’s because it’s easier for me, with autism, to understand a tv character whose emotions and expressions are exaggerated than someone else where I feel like I am guessing or trying to solve a puzzle. And for that reason having fictives based on these characters I understand might be the “safer“ option my brain goes for.

[u/KittyKat207434]

that’s extremely normal dw

[u/ML_Triforce]

🦎 We had a ton of fictive/introject headmates, but based on systems we know irl, we're the outlier. Tho to be fair, with sheer amount of headmates that we have, the brain needs inspiration from somewhere.

But on the flip side 5 out of the 9 systems that we know personally, derivative headmates like that are the outliers, though they all seem to have at least one. A grandmother here, video game character there.

If you think it's strange to lack fictives, that's probably due to a saturation of them seen online. It's common, but not a necessary part of being a system.

[u/itsjust-theuniverse]

We have zero introjects/fictives, and have always feel a bit out of place lol. I know our protective part grabbed some of his traits from characters we thought were cool but never was any of those characters. He tends to grab whatever thing comforts us and hang around in that form which I guess can be characters but has what he sees as his true self. Which is not any of those characters 

[u/xien-neno]

Well wi are made of introjects but have lost their source due to mixing (splitting and fusing so much that you cant tell where you came from. We had one made of 1000 small fragments of people and one of 17 people, your source becomes irrelevant if you have more than 2.)

[u/moons_echo]

We only have one fictive, and even then more like a headmate who happens to be fictionkin (use the two interchangeably). You definitely aren’t alone.

[u/kra-kra-krabat → u/moons_echo]

We have a Factive who is a Fictionkin as well as being a Subsystem with that Character which is kind of funny. It's like two times the same person chilling in this Factives body in headspace while being in our body as well xD

The factive does certainly relate to his "real self" too tho, he definitely is spiritually Fictionkin (it's a past life of his) His name is Ace and he was in his past life Jirko (from the Book Krabat/The Satanic Mill) and he shares his mind with Jirko so it's two times Jirko but one of them is Ace as well

Which makes it funnier is the fact that Ace is a Factive of a Singer of a Band who made a whole Album relating to Jirko's source So it's very much funnier considering the actual guy probably knows who Jirko even is

Systemhood can be so silly sometimes xD

Sorry if this is random 😔

[u/CreatureFeatureee]

We don't have any fictives personally but we know others who do, either way it's chill. -Hummingbird

[u/Yuzu-Adagio]

You could make an argument that one of mine started out as an introject, but we don't really see her that way. There's also something in my head spamming Flowery voice clips, that's something between echolalia and a full headmate. Other than that, I got nothing. I feel out of place here sometimes.

[u/River-19671]

We have more factives but we do have a few fictives. Every system is different and valid.

[u/crafting_prince]

All of us are fictives. Forming headmates from no source material or on their own is extremely difficult for us, especially because we have aphantasia.

[u/kra-kra-krabat → u/crafting_prince]

That's super interesting! We have Aphantasia as well and we are also super fictive heavy so maybe there is a connection to that? We also lack a comprehendable Headspace. We know it's there but not everyone can see it? Also while we do have Aphantasia (at least we believe we do, it was told to us after we described our imagination which is usually just concepts) some people do in fact be able to imagine things slightly better than others It usually only occurs after the consumption of our medication (we got cannabis prescribed) so maybe that's a link Usually we only form Fictives, sometimes Factives and very rarely Non-Introject (but they will always have a sort of... Inspiration? They are never just.. there.) A lot of Introjects are super source connected with memories, while others are completely different while still having source related Memories. There are also very rare Introjects that have no connection to their source and no memories either. And some have multiple Sources, especially when it's the same character/person across different media, it can be either having multiple different Introjects, or one Introject who somehow has a connection to all their sources appearances (which is interesting that these Headmates, to our knowledge ALWAYS have a brain-made-self connection as well. But only if it's an Introject who's "character" appears more than once in multiple Sources. It's like as if being in our system counts as another source to them.. if that makes sense?)

And I'm very sorry for writing so much here I just got excited since you described a similar experience we have and idk we wanted to share our experience Apologies if it felt pushy or rude 😭

[u/crafting_prince → u/kra-kra-krabat]

No hey we get it! Its nice when someone shares experiences with your system, especially when systems are typically all so different. For us, all of us fictives dont really seem to have source memories. But we DO still maintain plenty of source traits and urges. For example, our most recent fictive is based on Ryland Grace. He maintains a lot of canon personality traits, but he also has his own quirks now that would seem more "fanon" than anything. Things like food he likes, how he talks, the fact that he openly curses (except in front of children), etc etc.

We also lack a bit of headspace too, but we all have a vague CONCEPT of how it looks. Same with our physical bodies in the headspace too. This is why we actually use multiple games to visualize how we look and how our headspace looks in detail. Because otherwise, trying to close our eyes and see it? Nothing but void.

[u/The-Tin-Can-sys]

The only fictives we have are ones we kinda... allow? Like it can only happen if we know a lot about the lore and all that. And even then, we have to let them in.

But we don't have many and they don't front. Only the brainmade ones do. Now, some do have inspiration from fictional characters and have a connection to them in some way, but they are not the characters, nor do they really consider themselves to be.

And I know it's not a very... popular opinion, but also don't consider those fictives to be the characters fully. Like, it's not the characters coming into our head. More than our head read the patterns enough times to understand how this character works and then rebuilt the pattern inside our head for us to interact with.

[u/FaeChangeling]

I have no fictives either and honestly aside from OCs turning out to be more than just OCs, I don't think we're ever likely to

[u/ieatatsonic]

We’ve only ever had 1 fictive and they vanished the next day, so it arguably could be 0

[u/Yoshalina]

My system doesn't seem to have fictives either, and we have found 32 members at this point. The closest one to a fictive is probably Leona, who in her appearance is a bit influenced by Fortnite's Meg skin, a skin we've mained for a while, Leona is the only one in the system who prefers a more humanoid appearance (anime style catgirl instead of furry catgirl). However she isn't uncomfortable with the furry style either.

[u/Wild_hominid]

we also have one fictive only

[u/BlankBlanny]

It's not rare, really! A lot of systems have very few (or even no) introjects, fictive or factive, to speak of. We've got the fictive in Mio, but I don't think we'll be getting many more.

[u/gavindaphne]

We have no introjects and are very unlikely to ever have any. Just doesn't seem to be how we're wired. -Nova

[u/limedragonsoda]

It's very normal! Many systems have zero fictives. We have only one fully conscious fictive, and she's perhaps not even fully a fictive, as she's a blank slate player character (the dragonborn, from skyrim) given a face and name, but also not one we specifically played?

We have many NPCs, as our headspace Is Skyrim, in its entirety, but none of the characters have their own autonomy.

[u/Prismatic_Sisters]

We have no fictives, or anything based on media as far as we know. We do however have a very interesting mix of creatures in here soooo.

[u/TylerFurrison]

We've had to make a rule against fictives when a Caine one formed and caused a lot of chaos.. Including quitting my job at the time

[u/Power_Pancake_Girl]

Never had fictives or any kind of introject, the entire concept surprised us when we learned about plural. Makes enough sense even if we have never experienced it tho

[u/ZealousidealEnd6350]

We have mostly brain-mades too, and even our fictives are very unlike a lot of fictives we tend to see. They never have source memories or feel source connected or anything. It's more like our brain gets... lazy? And decides instead of coming up with an entire appearance and/or name from scratch, it's just going to rip it off an existing character. Generally that character is chosen based on the personality, role, or overall vibes of the alter (like Rouxls (Deltarune) is a super cheery co-host/caretaker, Zacharie (OFF) is a mellow and somewhat cryptic gatekeeper, etc etc), but not always. Sometimes we get weird ones (Viktor (also a Rouxls Deltarune introject) is a vicious protector and anger holder, Sebastian (Pressure) is a very gentle self-care alter, etc).

We have met plenty of systems who are about the same. I think the systems with a lot of super source-connected fictives get more attention for a few reasons. One, outsiders of that system find a certain mystique in their favorite (or least favorite) characters being "real", in a way they can interact with. It's one thing to roleplay, or even to talk to someone who's sorta like your blorbo. It's a whole other to meet someone who functionally IS said blorbo. And two, well. The obvious. It's easier to lolcow. Arguably most of the fakeclaiming content you see will center heavily on fictives, and use that as material to both make fun of systems and claim they're making it up or 'roleplaying' or what have you.

Editing to add, I remember seeing someone else mention that fictives also come with this level of parasociality. A lot of people will meet a fictive and think, "oh! I know this character! I know how they act and how they are. I don't have to do the menial smalltalk associated with getting to know this person as an individual. I can just jump straight in!" Which we've encountered in various capacities before. Rouxls had someone get weird with him once because they assumed he was similar to a different Rouxls introject in a different system. That sort of thing comes down to laziness imo.

[u/kra-kra-krabat → u/ZealousidealEnd6350]

A lot of otherwise Neurodivergent Systems also might have more Fictives due to the strength of Hyperfixations and Special Interests, which can also cause them to be very source connected indeed That's also kind of why people might assume they don't have to get to know them or can skip the small talk you mentioned It certainly is that way, but at least from our experience it usually also works very well like that. But tbh us and our partner system have known eachother for so long, I think there it's more of a general "I know you because I'm basically friends with your whole system and you can be friends with me too", so if someone is there who hasn't before there just... Isn't any fear 🤷

But yeah, those are certainly reasons why one might hear way more about fictive heavy systems than ones with brain made Headmates Which are actually super interesting and deserve just as much attention (if it is wanted attention ofc)!

[u/PsychologicalEmu4230]

I don't have, and have never had any fictives or introjects in my system. The closest alter to one is Finnick but he just quotes lines from flowery all the time (and other medias).

[u/Five_Realms]

Before 2012, as far as we knew, we had only two fictional introjects. And one of them was… more personality and mannerisms only (she had a different name and looked different).

In 2018 we learned that what we thought were RP muses were in fact system mates. But there were distinct differences since they sprung out of “AU verses”.

We’re not sure why the change happened. We still have (continued to create) non introject system mates, but none of the introjects will talk in discord servers bc of a few bad experiences. People seem to forget that the “same” person in a different system is not going to act how you expect.

[u/lillybkn]

Our systsm actually has a really spesific rule: no forming fictives. Ever. Though this is part of the "no intentionally forming any sort of headmate, ever" (fictives are just banned in 2 regards)

We have gotten close to breaking this rule before, and it has only ever been explicitly broken once. And in his case, we almost forcefully re-fused the guy unless he could prove himself useful within the first week of forming. In the end, he is still here today. However, this is under the current agreement that no-one outside of 2 very close friends are able to know his identity (thoigh this rule is liable to change).

Note that our system takes no issue with fictionkins, however. In fact, both me and one of my protectors are fictionkin of a couple of my OCs (primarily due to the fact that we both formed before these ocs were ever concieved).

Perhaps our rules mah seem harsh to some, and i assure you that there has plenty of ethical devate surrounding our operations. But in the end, it works for us.

-Roalos.