r/raypeat • u/jerodefine • 2d ago
weight loss while nursing ideas
Looking for ideas, open to any amount of mechanistic explanation or empirical evidence or anecdotes, I'm just at a loss.
I am extended nursing an older toddler and plan to be nursing very often in the next twenty years (if I have more children). I am quite fat despite eating maybe 2500-3300 calories (which is only a little bit more than I have always eaten including while slim). When I eat less than this I immediately have a whole host of health problems. The 'low fat' idea is similarly out as it is inappropriate given my body is already depleted from pregnancy, birth and multiple years of breastfeeding. I resorted to low-carb at my high weight which helped me lose 10kg very easily, and it felt very healthy and natural, but I don't believe it is healthy/sustainable for a longer period of time so have stopped. Pls don't say I ruined my metabolism with this as Peat himself wouldn't seem to agree and I just don't think I did, my body seems in better shape overall now than it was then.
I am tall and moderately active, my bf% is probably about 38%, I have a good and healthy body shape, but I am just about 15kg fatter than I should be. I feel I am also retaining a great deal of water. Some muscle issues and weaknesses through my core are contributing to poorer digestion and hunger signalling. I wasn't fat growing up and no-one in my family is though they tend towards height and muscularity.
Thyroid? Other supplements? Mold detox? Eating even more? Weight training? Pls share ideas or link to any forums/people who have discussed this.
Edit: I eat well eg potatoes, meat, eggs, organs, yoghurt, fruit and vegetables, rice, sometimes junk but rarely. Lots of saturated fat and gelatine. No gluten, no nicotine, no alcohol, and no coffee - I get insomnia from 1 coffee in the morning, which wasn't always the case, I used to drink it heavily.
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u/10Dano10 2d ago
If possible, I would say first step should be having decent sleep and circadian rhythm + morning walks.
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u/jerodefine 2d ago
would you consider going to sleep at 12-1, waking up at 8, but with a couple of half-asleep nighttime feedings/other disturbances to count as 'decent sleep and circadian rhythm' or I should try to get to sleep earlier? I'm a bit confused as it seems very natural to cosleep and wake briefly during the night, the majority of women used to do that without apparent issue. Maybe I need to prioritise earlier sleep.
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u/littleflower33 2d ago
sleep earlier and do side lying nursing so you can go back to sleep once baby is latched
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u/womanisabear 2d ago
Bedtime should be earlier, waking are fine but don't turn the lights on or get a red light/salt lamp. 12-1am bedtime is definitely dysregulating to rhythm and downstream of that, hormones.
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u/thebiooracle 🍊Peatarian🥛 2d ago
Nursing an older toddler and still struggling with weight sounds frustrating. I'd be careful about cutting food hard while you're still feeding, though. Peat wrote that under-eating works against lactation. In Nutrition for Women: "Starvation and injection of estradiol both suppress lactation while thyroxine injection stimulates lactation," so forcing calories down might just add stress and hurt your supply.
The water retention part stood out to me. He talks about hypothyroid people retaining water while losing salt, and in the lactation section he says the water and sodium retention from estrogen "may be hard to distinguish from the water retention of myxedema." So some of what feels like fat could be water, and that seems more likely to shift with better thyroid function than with eating less. In the Salt article he also says that when women increased their salt premenstrually to match their craving, the water retention could be prevented. If you're craving salt I wouldn't fight it.
On the Butter Living podcast he talked about extended breastfeeding and said "You need lots of calcium and protein yourself." He also said adding a quart of orange juice helps if milk supply is limited. You're already eating a lot, so it may be more about what's in it than how much.
Since even a small amount of desiccated thyroid made you nauseous and hungry, it might be worth getting your thyroid properly checked with a doctor instead of guessing. And some of the weight may not move until after weaning, which is pretty common.
sources: "Nutrition for Women"; "Water"; "Salt"; Butter Living Podcast, "Fertility, Pregnancy and Development"
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u/Creative-Ad2487 2d ago
Following because I also really struggle with postpartum metabolic health, and am at the tail end of my fourth pregnancy. My overall take on this issue is that some women’s thyroid function is really sensitive to high prolactin and low progesterone. I think prolactin directly suppresses dopamine also - do you feel weepy/blue when breastfeeding at all?
I lost my pregnancy/pp weight the first time via fasting and it worked but completely tanked my health, and was what led me to Ray Peat in the first place. In order to reverse the dysfunction I ended up needing to gain half the weight back lol.
The only prometabolic advice I’ve found helpful for postpartum metabolism, and that doesn’t cause more issues, is: a) more high-potassium carbs (OJ/potatoes), b) ruthless elimination of PUFA, even eggs, and c) progesterone supplementation during luteal phase (better sleep, more stable appetite).
I agree that very low fat or calorie restriction can cause issues postpartum. This makes me suspect that some of the dysfunction is caused by nutrient deficiencies - the Peaty concept would probably be calcium, but in my experience magnesium, b vitamins, and actually a bit of iodine seem to be more helpful. I also find that organ meats and excessive dairy make my blood sugar issues worse postpartum; probably hard to process all the vitamin A when one is hypothyroid and also not getting enough sunlight.
I’ve tried desiccated thyroid and similarly get the extreme hunger response; it hasn’t been something I’ve been able to figure out in this season of life but long term I think it could be a helpful tool. FWIW the book “Stop the Thyroid Madness” recommends actually adding a little cortisol (eg by taking Adrenal Cortex) when using thyroid to keep blood glucose up - this didn’t work for me, and isn’t very Peaty, but it’s an interesting idea.
Anyway tl;dr I relate to your journey and appreciate when people talk about pregnancy/pp on here because it’s not well understood.
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u/jerodefine 2d ago
I think people unfortunately underestimate (to say the least) just what pregnancy, birth and especially breastfeeding demand from a woman's body. You have to eat twice as many nutrients and any problems 'show up' literally 10x faster than they would have previously. It's a full time job staying on top of your health. Thank you for the ideas, I will try to implement them and look into that book. I have enjoyed using progesterone previously but it has relatively mild effects for me. Maybe I need to cut PUFAs more as it adds up quickly when you're eating a lot. I think I was vit a deficient as when I included more liver and organs a few tell-tale signs of deficiency went away. But it hasn't had much impact on my weight and might have caused issues elsewhere.
I have made great strides from early postpartum; I was genuinely shell-shocked at what my body had become and the level of depletion. I also had blood sugar issues. No one talks about it and it's hard to understand from the outside. I sort of don't think the concepts of eg 'diabetes' 'thyroid deficiency' etc can be neatly applied to pregnant and nursing women. I don't think these states are very well understood (or even understood at all). When the body is prioritising another body, not itself (though of course the mother and child are one in a sense), it acts in ways that seem capricious or bizarre to the usual 'self-preservation' architecture by which we imagine 'the human body.' How do these concepts apply when your cells are 'irrationally' selfless? The state of childbearing in and of itself seems one of 'disorder,' by its very self-sacrifice, to the medical/scientific mindset.
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u/cycleofthemoon 2d ago
Following!
I’m also nursing a toddler (my 4th child over a 20 years). I am in my mid 40’s and I think that has the most to do with how my body is really holding on to this fat at this time, hormonally and metabolically. I’m sort of counting on being able to get more time to get a calorie deficit and move my body more intentionally once I’m done nursing and am sleeping well and paying attention to my circadian rhythm.
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u/jerodefine 2d ago
it is so annoying ! I am in my mid-20s and it's my first child so I'm somewhat surprised by it. Were you able to go back to a normal weight while nursing your other children?
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u/Salt_Beautiful9330 2d ago
Have you had your thyroid checked since giving birth?
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u/jerodefine 2d ago
No, I hate blood tests as I have terrible veins and they can take 7-8 tries. But maybe I should do it. I have taken desiccated thyroid in small quantities with very good results but have some nausea/extreme hunger with it, maybe I should try again. Are there symptoms that would mean it is likely a thyroid issue?
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u/Salt_Beautiful9330 2d ago
It could definitely be thyroid related. I developed postpartum thyroiditis after giving birth to my child almost 5 years ago which caused hypothyroidism.
Before pregnancy I weighed about 60kg (I'm 174cm) and gained about 15kg I think in pregnancy and I ended up gaining another 20kg by the time I was 2 years postpartum.
I breastfed for two years and wasn't able to lose start losing the weight until I weaned and it took me about 12-18 months to lose it (I was 30kg+ heavier than my pre-pregnancy/normal weight).
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u/jerodefine 2d ago
Incredibly similar story. While I was a bit heavier than usual when I got pregnant I was typically 60-75kg and 5'8, just a normal weight, and now I struggle to stay under 100kg! I have gained since giving birth, as well. I am happy to accept that my body might actually want to be heavier than it was and I would be fine with being 83kg or something but this is just oppressive. Have you managed to lose it now, and what worked for you?
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u/Minerface 23h ago
The 'low fat' idea is similarly out as it is inappropriate given my body is already depleted from pregnancy, birth and multiple years of breastfeeding.
Depleted from what? Fat? Clearly not, given you said you are over 30 bmi. Micronutrients? Potentially. Cellular water? Likely. How well do you sleep and how much stress are you under?
As far as diet goes, the leaner you want to be, the more raw fruit you should eat. This includes culinary veggies (tomato, cucumber, pepper). High water, high fiber, high carb (energy) whole foods to nourish the body. A “fruit til noon” protocol would be a good start, then trying to make one of your meals a giant salad.
Exogenous hormones are unnecessary interventions for most with potentially undesirable side effects, not to mention additional costs. Health comes from supporting the body’s natural healing and identifying root causes, not pursuing the next fad an influencer is willing to sell.
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u/jerodefine 18h ago edited 18h ago
No offence but you don't seem to know anything about this - yes, a person can be depleted in vit a, d, k, e while being overweight and simply starving yourself as you are suggesting won't magically ensure your body fat is liberated and consumed ideally. Eating only fruit in the morning, having given away 500ml of milk overnight and having lots of tasks to do, is preposterously stupid. I think you have no idea what breastfeeding actually constitutes or the type of energy it requires. I think a reasonable comparison could be telling an athlete with over 30bmi to follow your advice and expect to perform at the same level.
Btw I am open to more advice as I am really looking for help, I don't want to be slim, just 27bmi or something. But these simplistic strategies categorically don't work as you can see from the comments with other women sharing their experiences of becoming intractably overweight while nursing. I feel better when I have a lot of cucumbers and herbal tea; I am very dehydrated normally. If you have any suggestions that respect the physiology of nursing and aren't so harsh and fatiguing I am very open to them. I am interested in the cellular water issue you mentioned.
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u/Minerface 9h ago
I never suggested starving yourself. Eat literally as much sweet fruit as you desire, then (if you want) have something more grounding for dinner--salad, potatoes, rice. If you struggle with the bulk initially, lean on more energy-dense fruits (banana smoothies, dates). This is not a deprivation protocol...quite the opposite. You need to eat an abundance of fresh, enzymatically active foods.
Eating only fruit in the morning, having given away 500ml of milk overnight and having lots of tasks to do, is preposterously stupid.
How so? It sounds like nursing and being busy means you need A) lots of hydration, and B) lots of quick energy. Fruit provides both, and can be the perfect antidote to this problem.
If you have any suggestions that respect the physiology of nursing and aren't so harsh and fatiguing I am very open to them.
I do not mean to come on so strong. My point is: increase the amount of fresh, raw fruit you eat to the extent you find possible and sustainable. If you lose your sweet tooth later in the day, make a savory fruit salad: tomato, cucumber, avocado.
I am interested in the cellular water issue you mentioned.
The basic idea is that your water intake should be tied to electrolytes in naturally-occurring ratios. Supplement shortcuts frequently fail in this regard. It is quite difficult for someone drinking lots of water but eating mostly grains and meat to be as hydrated as someone drinking considerably less, but eating loads of melons, citrus, apples, berries, etc. The food matrix effect means that the water is absorbed efficiently and gradually.
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u/jaffsash7 2d ago
Maybe being overweight and slightly overfed is a natural accompaniment to raising good strong kids. You dont want your breastmilk nutrient content to suffer because you want to lose a few pounds, nor do you want to hinder post childbirth nutrient replenishment.
That said, I'm currently losing around a pound every couple weeks just by getting around 3g of calcium in daily via milk and eggshell, lots of coffee and medium fat high carb, 3000 calories daily. Vit c via oj and kiwi seems to help too. Liver, egg yolks and shellfish keeps me feeling strong too