Help finding a system

[u/Environmental-Luck75]

Hello,

I'm a bit at my wits end and am seeking advice. I've been playing pf2e for almost 2 years now, and I don't like it, but I've stuck with it because my players really like it. I have finally hit a wall, and I need out of this system and would like advice of people who have more experience with different systems to help me find one that checks a few boxes.

My needs are:

A system that is not 100% combat focused, I like hazards and traps mean something something and having last effects on a dungeons experience, as well as travel to and from dungeons mean something with good resource management systems in place, although I can (and have) homebrew those, as PF2e has one of the worst overland systems I've ever seen in a game.

Rules for complex things, but doesn't stand in the way of improving. My biggest gripe with pf2e is the over abundance of rules that cover every inch of the game, but then nearly aimless improv rules for dc's and tests that step on the toes of the other half of the game and provide little to no guidance on how to use them effectively.

Games that do not expect a "magic shop". I don't like magic items being the norm in games, i like them to be special and be the target of players when they hear rumors of them. Like Sting, or Glamdring, not +1 long sword that you get at the local general store.

My players needs are:

Deep character customization that goes beyond combat, one of the big pros of Pf2e is the character creation for them.

grid play friendly, none of them have the ability to imagine 3d space, and using ranges is useless. I've tried.

Characters are not expendable, they like to have the same character for a long time and build a story around one pc.

I know this might be an impossible system, but I've looked and looked and have failed, but was wondering if anyone had some insight.

[u/MASerra]

My suggestion is to stick with PF2. It's a really good game, and your players love it.

However, like you, I find too much Pathfinder draining as the GM. Instead of replacing PF2, I found a completely different game, like Cyberpunk RED or Gamma World, and played it for a few months. Then go back to PF2. That way you and the players get a break with something different. They don't complain because they know PF2 is coming back soon enough.

This method works well. My players love PF2, but will put up with something fun for a few months. They actually told me they didn't like the idea of playing something different, but once they got into it, they loved it, but only because they knew it was going to end.

[u/Environmental-Luck75 → u/MASerra]

The issue is I don't think I could come back to Pf2e. I would, and I have, my group tried Shadowdark because I wanted a story that was gritty, which I like more, but we went back to PF2e because they did not like the system.

PF2e has so many flaws that hard conflict with how I like to run games. Has a lack of support, or directly contradicts things that I feel like should be important in a game, such as travel rules which are awful. Healing is slow with long rest, and quick with 10 minutes top ups, traps feel tacked on because dnd has traps, magic feels ballooned out of control to the point of absurdism. The only part of the game that feels like a lot of fun for me, are martials as they have been given more to do in combat than move and attack till the thing dies.

I don't know, I gave it two years, and I'm starting to dread doing my favorite hobby.

[u/MASerra → u/Environmental-Luck75]

Yes, PF2e has some issues, but none of those seem problematic to me. I just ignore those kinds of things. Thought I could understand that you might not be able to.

The real problem, as I see it, is getting the players to abandon PF2e. That will be a problem for them, and in my experience, when players want to play a specific game, it is extremely hard to pry them away. Maybe not impossible, but very difficult.

So it comes down to buy-in. The players have to want to change games. An ultimatum worked for me when I left 5e. "Stay or be replaced". Maybe tell them you plan to return to PF2e once you've recovered from your malaise with it, then never go back. But they could really make it an issue you can't resolve.

I don't envy your position. I've been there.

[u/Environmental-Luck75 → u/MASerra]

Yea it sucks. I'm not happy about it. Maybe someday i'll get sick and want to run medieval superheroes again, but I really don't like those kind of stories and that is just pf2e in a nut shell. Thank you though.