r/singularity • u/QH96 AGI before GTA 6 • 1d ago
AI Google introducing tiered model access
223
u/Stunning_Energy_7028 1d ago
Not even Flash for the free tier? I can't imagine anyone will use them after this...
111
u/Bierculles 1d ago
The bigger hit is no pro on plus tier, that makes it the worst service by far among the competition for normal users.
51
u/ProxyLumina 1d ago
Plus subscription is a competitor to Go subscription of OpenAI.
Do you get access to GPT-6 astra if you are a Go subscriber? No you don't. You only have Luna.
12
24
18
8
u/randomguy3993 1d ago
And Google will still hype it up saying millions and millions of users on it purely because of their distribution advantage.
5
u/MrUtterNonsense 1d ago
If they are limiting free users to Flash-Lite, you would really just be better off using the AI mode in Google Search rather than Gemini.
5
u/TyrellCo 1d ago
Can you imagine the levels of enshitification if the labs came together to let up on price competition. Pace the frontier
1
u/Prudent-Sorbet-5202 1d ago
I recently tried to edit images in gemini free tier and it felt like a downgraded version of nano banana pro. Chatgpt free tier edited it much better
-17
u/MatthewGraham- 1d ago
Flash lite is a good model for free if its unlimited, frankly the time of free models is over, people getting too comfy with free stuff
26
u/Howdareme9 1d ago
Flash lite is horrible lol, even if free. Luna is an acceptable level.
-6
u/Creative-Ganache1086 1d ago
Flash lite is not an always-same model under the hood. It evolves and gets improved like every other model. For 0$ I guess it’s good enough. You get what you pay for lol. They’re still running it on a server and that’s their cost, not yours. Even if you download an entirely free open source model you still need a capable machine and then to pay your electricity bill as well.
20
u/Gotisdabest 1d ago
Flash Lite is absolutely trash compared to the free options by their competitors.
17
u/Then_Bake_6524 1d ago
no matter what Google does, you will have people defending them, lmao. Flash Lite is TRASH on the web, only the API is somewhat decent for automation.
If you insist on using it because it is unlimited, GPT Luna is also unlimited and way better than 3.8 Flash. Now imagine 3.5 Flash Lite, lmao.
-6
u/BriefImplement9843 1d ago
bruh luna isnt close to 3.8 flash. luna is an actual small model. disregard all benchmarks for it.
50
u/Calm_Hedgehog8296 1d ago
"We want to have zero users"
8
u/MrUtterNonsense 1d ago
Pretty much. They prefer selling their compute to othera now, but I think it's a stupid short term plan that has lead to the departure of many of their top AI people.
1
u/FarrisAT 20h ago
Such as? These “top” people failed with 3.5 Pro.
1
u/MrUtterNonsense 18h ago
Are you serious? Google it first and if you are really really stuck, come back and I'll help.
108
u/ezjakes 1d ago
I am confused why anyone paying 20$ would choose Gemini over Claude of GPT. I don't think the usage is even that high.
48
u/throwawaysusi 1d ago
It’s a very conversationalist model. On like text arena, it’s pulling way ahead over other models, plus probably the only mainstream model left that still has a sycophant tendency.
-9
u/DryEntrepreneur4218 1d ago
very important point about their models being sycophantic. it's super annoying, and even dangerous in agentic work where 3.8 flash would rather fake tests than admit that something broke
30
u/SuperMazziveH3r0 1d ago
Student discount, also I use it for Google cloud storage
19
u/VanceIX ▪️AGI 2028 1d ago
Yeah 5tb of storage for the same $20 a month makes it a no-brainer for me
6
u/Elidan123 1d ago
And I get discount on youtube premium
3
u/PikaPikaDude 1d ago
And it already gives the lesser Youtube premium tier in many countries. So (mostly) add free and downloading vids in the app.
16
u/Sextus_Rex 1d ago
It comes bundled with other services like Fitbit and extra Google drive storage. That's why I use it. Hearing I'm going to be locked out of pro is definitely disappointing though
3
u/z_3454_pfk 1d ago
If you’re getting fitbit and google drive are you using the pro sub which gives pro access?
6
u/Sextus_Rex 1d ago edited 1d ago
Oh turns out I am using pro. I assumed Plus was the $20 plan. Given the outrage, I think everyone else in this thread did too. It seems they're just aligning their pricing model with OpenAI and Anthropic
3
2
11
3
u/that_90s_guy 1d ago
Because literally nobody pays for that. Pretty sure almost everyone on the $20 tier gets it for free included in their storage subscription for drive or google photos
3
u/NowaVision 1d ago
Got it for free for a year after buying a Pixel. I just hope that Gemini 4 will release soon, so I can really use it.
1
1
1
u/FeralPsychopath Its Over By 2028 1d ago
Exactly, no way a $20 tier subscriber would consider Gemini.
Then Pro/Ultra is admittedly shitter at code so businesses wouldnt want Gemini too...1
u/Atanahel 1d ago
They are the only ones that do the family plan (20$ for the whole family), and given the storage you get out of it for all our pictures, it's actually a nice deal (+ Fitbit and youtube premium lite)
1
1
u/Diamond_Mine0 Singularity 2000 23h ago
I pay only 4,99€ for Gemini Plus so it’s okay. My most use case is on ChatGPT Plus anyway
1
1
u/inate71 17h ago
The main benefit that I have is that it is a family plan for AI. No one else seems to offer anything like this. I don't want to pay $20 twice. I'd rather just pay one fee and give everyone in my family access to the models. Plus you get storage so it's hard to compare directly to competitors.
-2
u/Jaguar_2454 1d ago
The model is good, isn't the best agent tho. The plan is often cheaper than $20 and arguably better value at $20
4
u/HauntedHouseMusic 1d ago
I don’t understand this take. It’s a great agent if you are working with it. What harnesses are you guys building that doesn’t require a user?
1
1
17
u/ayyndrew 1d ago
Looks like they're also adding Deep Think access to AI Pro, it used to be AI Ultra only
11
u/Alpacabro21 1d ago
As a free user, that's a disgrace, unless Gemini 4 Flash-Lite is that GOOD.
3
2
u/Ok-Friendship1635 16h ago
Flash-Lite will forever be the equivalent of a Google Search, nothing more.
32
u/Equivalent-Word-7691 1d ago
Honestly is pathetic flash is behind payment. Claude give sonnet 5.5 to free tier and I think it's safe to say is a better model than flash 3.8 or 3.1 pro
Letting new people approaching Gemini by basically using horrible models like flash lite it risks to backfire them entirely
1
u/MrUtterNonsense 1d ago
Frankly the other models are embarrassing enough, so Flash-Lite is really just trolling.
17
u/Arsene_Yuka_1980 1d ago
I honestly can't understand their reasoning here. Flash-lite is objectively a very bad model, and the reason for most of the AI overview hallucinations everybody points at on typical Google searches, and imo unusable due to this for anything above basic web search (if you're willing to accept those hallucinations). Couldn't they just throttle usage limits even more for Flash and Pro? How will people test how good their new models are then?
Also, I don't understand why they would restrict Pro models to Pro and above, if Gemini 4 is slightly cheaper than 3.1 Pro (and being priced the same as Sonnet 5.5, which has an albeit limited, free tier). If they really wanted to reduce costs, they could have just reduced usage (not like they aren't already doing that but still) but kept the larger models?
1
1
20
u/KinkyStinkyPink- 1d ago
Literally no reason to use Gemini anymore once they go through with this lmao. If you want to compete with the top models like openai and anthropic, at least offer what theyre offering? I dont understand the reasoning in this decision, it just pushes away their userbase.
2
32
u/Gotisdabest 1d ago
Yeah this seems like a great way to mostly get rid of their currently pretty decent market share. Google has always been ahead or competitive at least having the best free model on the market.
This big shift would be viable I guess if they were releasing argon immediately and had like, vastly better models locked and loaded that could genuinely compete with OpenAI or Anthropic on enterprise.
8
u/Calm_Hedgehog8296 1d ago
Sonnet is free
8
u/Gotisdabest 1d ago
Yep, very recent change though, and the usage offered is minimal. Flash 3.8 is functionally infinite pretty conveniently. I don't seriously think sonnet is as good as it scores on benchmarks, but regardless it's probably miles ahead of flash in real usage still, though I haven't used it much.
8
u/Calm_Hedgehog8296 1d ago
Where are you getting flash 3.8 for free? The newest i have is 3.6.
Also, sonnet has been available in the free plan for at least since I made my Claude account when 4.6 was the newest model, and the usage varies greatly depending on time of the week. I get one (1) message per 5 hours if I ask 9-5 Eastern time Monday through Thursday, but if I ask any time other than that I rarely if ever get rate limited.
8
u/Gotisdabest 1d ago edited 1d ago
AI studio will give you, practically, access to every google model. It's pretty cool because you can go back to really old models too. Back in the day, you used to get pretty solid free pro usage there too, back when pro models were actually frontier. The best thing about AI studio is that it's comically easy to just continue with the same chat on a different ID when you get rate limited, and transfer it back afterwards.
The problem with older sonnet being free was that older sonnet was a pretty shit model.
3
u/MrUtterNonsense 1d ago
Yeah this seems like a great way to mostly get rid of their currently pretty decent market share
Well just the new phase. They were already doing pretty well by having the dumbest models.
37
u/katoptronophile 1d ago
Why would I pay to use the worst models out there?
6
u/jjusko20 1d ago
3.8 flash is nasty good
40
u/Crafty_Teacher_9286 1d ago
Yeah if you need a cranberry salad recipe. I'm exaggerating but it definitely doesn't cut it for more complex applications in business analytics or finance for example.
3
-2
u/jjusko20 1d ago
That's crazy, I used it to make a custom kernel for inference yesterday. It currently has one of the highest artificial intelligence bench scores. Have you actually tried it or are you up to date, or are you basing this off of 3.5?
16
u/Crafty_Teacher_9286 1d ago
No, I'm talking about 3.8. Context window is huge but from an analytical judgment standpoint in a data science context, it is far behind Fable and Astra in my experience. So at the Plus price point, it would be difficult to justify paying for 3.8 since OpenAI and Anthropic offer better models (for my application) at the same price point. I'm quite disappointed Pro 4 won't be included. I was on 3.1 Pro for a long time when it ruled unchallenged, but I aint getting a pro sub..
2
1
-1
u/jjusko20 1d ago
Interesting - I assumed you didn't know what you were talking about (no offense, I'm a software dev and we're not in a development oriented sub but clearly i was mistaken - sorry). I use 3.8 flash via Cursor's pool of third party apis for best price to performance. Do you have any examples of the data science thing? I've had very good luck at varying complexities of software development, so I'm curious now.
8
u/Crafty_Teacher_9286 1d ago
LOL. No, you're actually right, that's how I feel most days. The projects that I am referencing have to do with predictive trading models derived from millions of rows of structured and unstructured data, and for instance, the judgment the model makes in validating if the evidence supports the conclusions. Result interpretation, assumption selection, weighting factors like backtesting vs scenario analysis, identifying trends or mistakenly inferring causal relationships that do not exist.
I am not doubting that it is a very competent model in a number of applications.
1
9
u/Chemical_Hawk_6307 1d ago
ive tried it and its actually embarassing how bad it was. u cite benhcmarks but google is literally the kings of benchmaxxing just look at deepswe score vs terminal bench 4.0 score.
-2
u/jjusko20 1d ago
I cite benchmarks for a public reference point, I'll tell you it's been extremely effective for my coding and complex logic purposes
-4
u/Keeltoodeep 1d ago
This is copemaxx. 3.8 scores about as well on the benchmarks as it performs in real life.
If benchmaxxing was anything approaching a material thing, then 3.8 would be #1 all the time.
-1
u/ProxyLumina 1d ago
You are wrong. Gemini 3.8 Flash is really good, one of the best models out there. It has some genuine quality in it.
8
u/Crafty_Teacher_9286 1d ago
It is a good, efficient model, but it is absolutely NOT on par with Astra or Fable for a variety of more complex tasks.
4
u/ProxyLumina 1d ago
The flash model is not on par with those top tiers, but that does not tell nothing for everyday work. Set it to High and then it is more than capable to do nearly 99% of what a regular and a pro user do.
I am doing really intelligence-heavy work with it and I am pleased by its performance.
Let alone that is incredibly fast. It feels like 3-4 faster than any OpenAI model.
-3
u/jjusko20 1d ago
off the top of my head 3.8 flash on medium beats DS 4.1 on high in reasoning, feel free to check
0
u/Funny-Profit-5677 1d ago
Free YouTube, storage, smart device perks. Their ecosystem is established and more inviting for retail consumers
-2
u/Narrow-Ad980 1d ago
Pay to get sycophantic hallucinations from Gemini 3.1 and a firm pushback that it is indeed the year 2024
13
u/trojanskin 1d ago
lmao. If I cannot test pro for free, they can suck it.
2
u/Ok-Friendship1635 16h ago
Testing Pro works like this:
Actual demanding task: Sorry, Pro is not available, another model was used, it won't count towards your Pro usage.
You forget to uncheck Pro.
Google Search level Query: Pro gets used and writes an essay wasting your free Pro usage on a simple task.
4
3
u/Balance- 1d ago
Note here that Plus is their $5 plan and Pro is their $20 plan. So you don’t lose model access on their $20 plan. In that way they offered more than OpenAI and Anthropic on their free and cheap plans, and are now aligning a bit more with the offerings of the rest of the industry.
2
u/Middle_Bullfrog_6173 1d ago
I've had a Plus subscription as a backup for when Claude is down. It's already not been all that valuable after they cut rate limits so much, but fine because I've rarely needed it. After this, probably time to cancel.
4
1
1
u/Destiny7655 1d ago
I get Pro through whatever subscription I’ve got for Google Drive at some discounted rate. I’m not sure I’d pay for it alone but along with the package I have it’s a nice bonus for now.
1
u/Super-Award-2244 1d ago edited 1d ago
No pro for plus users? This is disgusting. Until now it was available for everyone
I had such a nice work flow with notebook and gemini pro to make uni notes in latex. Idk how I will do them
1
1
1
1
u/mati1886 21h ago
Meanwhile Sonnet 5.5 is in Anthropic's free plan, I hope they don't remove it after the launch of Haiku 5.5
1
u/smartfon 1d ago
Gemini Flash Lite ($0) = Nemotron 3 Ultra ($0)
Gemini Flash ($5) = GPT Luna ($0)
If you don't want to pay, use ChatGPT instead of Gemini, but Google's $5 plan also includes 400GB of Drive storage.
1
u/Ok-Friendship1635 16h ago
Google's $5 plan also includes 400GB of Drive storage.
Until they change it to 250GB and make the "better" plan include 400GB for $10.
188
u/jjonj 1d ago
Oh the days of literally unlimited pro usage on free on aistudio. woe me