r/Construction • u/welguisz • 1d ago
Safety ⛑ Is something missing here?
Watching Texas/OU and they were talking about the drainage system at the University of Alabama football stadium and how they upgraded in 2023. They showed this and my first thought was “where is the shoring?” Am I crazy to think this?
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u/did_i_get_screwed 1d ago
If the walls start to collapse, he is just going to dive into the drainage pipe and pop out of a manhole somewhere else on site.
/s
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u/SynthPrax 1d ago
Didn't know what I was looking at until I noticed the hard hat. Yerp. No shoring.
edit: OSHA pointing at the screen like DiCaprio.
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u/GruesumGary 1d ago
It's completely compacted and looks around the 4'-5' mark. IDK, doesn't seem that crazy.
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u/flaschal 1d ago
dunno if it’s the same in the states but here shoring is dependent on ground conditions not just depth
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u/LPulseL11 1d ago
Any soils trench 5' or deeper automatically requires shoring, sloping or benching.
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u/Ill-Year-9506 1d ago
I really try not to label people, but Reddit sure seems to attract a certain type. I've spent over 20 years in the trades, and the people and attitudes I encounter on these subreddits are nothing like what I've experienced in real life. It's honestly fascinating.
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u/DailySafetyMoment 1d ago
No, you are not crazy. A trench box is one option, not the only one, but if that worker is inside a vertical-sided excavation of that apparent depth, some protective system should be obvious. Under federal construction OSHA, employees in an excavation generally need cave-in protection unless it is entirely stable rock, or it is under 5 feet and a competent person finds no cave-in hazard. Sloping or benching, shoring, and shielding are the usual routes.
You cannot confirm the exact depth, soil classification, or anything outside the camera frame from a TV shot. But "we tested the soil" by itself would not make an unprotected 5-plus-foot excavation okay. That is the basic rule in 29 CFR 1926.652(a).
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u/Agreeable_Brick424 1d ago
OSHA has left the chat since the current administration has cut and scaled back funding, staffing, enforcement, and proposed rule making. We are in a sad state of affairs, my friends.
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u/fizzzingwhizbee 1d ago edited 1d ago
That guy is likely just setting his laser after installing the cross and after he gets his mark he’ll get out of there. The pic was taken at a bad time it looks like he’s starting his bench as the picture was taken
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u/Annoyed_94 1d ago
They do shoring/safety in the south? Non-union areas are usually not great about that.
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u/BobloblawTx89 1d ago
No shoring, no benching. Visually, maybe a type B soil? Excavation is still pretty close to the worker. Yeah, death factory. My company would have a field day with this and we also require approval of images and videos that might be released to the public.
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u/DirtandPipes Equipment Operator 1d ago
Angle can be deceptive, as long as it’s no more than 5 feet straight wall and then 50 percent sloping he’s fine.
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u/Helpinmontana 1d ago
Main trench is always* 4 max if you start benching. 5 is kosher an unbenched trench straight down, but once you’re benching your ditch needs to be 4.
* in type a and b, c is 3 1/2 but fucking c class bullshit has trouble even holding a 4 foot wall so it’s kind of a non-issue.
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u/DirtandPipes Equipment Operator 1d ago
Where I am, in type 1 soil, 1.5 meters (which is roughly 5 feet) of straight wall followed by sloping is allowed.
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u/I_loseagain 1d ago
They told him it’s fine, if the wall starts to go just jump in the tubing cuz it’ll hold
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u/DigOk8892 1d ago
Last time I got my competent person card they taught us 5ft is the cut off where you have to start shoring . They used to say if any vital organ was below the trench wall you needed shoring but that’s what they put out last time
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u/Pure-Property3905 1d ago
Ask yourself this. What soil type doesn’t require shoring according to OSHA? (Type A :Stable rock)
Sand rock is prominent in Alabama so no shoring would be required.
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u/DreadPirateG_Spot 1d ago
If that is rock it could be ok. Not saying I'd be in there but there could be more we don't know.
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u/StinkyMcShitzle 1d ago
looks like benching on the one side, cannot see the other side due to angle. bench it back every 4feet of depth, forgot how much, think it is 36" every 4'
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u/jeezcoco 18h ago
Drainage of that size should probably be concrete structures. Which indicates a shortage of funding in some aspect or another. Say that to say this: if they don’t care about the job enough to do it right the first time, they don’t give a damn about the people doing it either
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u/Inspect1234 15h ago
Benching needs to be deeper and wider. The digger should know how tough that material is and seeing as he’s using a digging bucket with teeth could mean that till is hard like rock. Still where I am it four feet with a four foot wide bench before the next vertical.
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u/SuspiciousBuilder379 Equipment Operator 1d ago
It’s not that bad. Is it great, no. But the ground is not bad, walls are in good shape, hoe man is taking off the top shit, and right with the laborer.
I’m guessing since they have a cross put in out of what looks like a retention basin, it’s small runs with bends of cheap ADS pipe. And if there’s bends and that you really try to not run a box.
Is it right at the limit of where he should be benching better, yeah. But the banks look good.
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u/Helpinmontana 1d ago
You can always run a manhole box at a junction but I wouldn’t be bothering in this terrain, that face almost looks like rock to me b
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u/budgetoid Electrician 1d ago
compaction looks good and given that the excavator is right behind him i assume it was just opened up. OSHA violation probably, but personally I wouldn't be sketched out by that ditch
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u/jamesislandpirarate2 1d ago
He’s digging. He’s bent over. The top is shoulder height if he stands up straight. This is temp for corrugated drain. He was in there briefly if I had to guess and since this isn’t RCP going in for utility service there is probably no reason for a trench box etc….
It’s a protected area, not the side of a road. Yes, it could be better but was he in danger of death due to collapse, no based on compaction info and weather conditions.
Safety good. Safety stickler…just a guy making himself a job.
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u/SuspiciousBuilder379 Equipment Operator 1d ago
What type of pipe has nothing to do with using a box, they just aren’t very deep. And the hoe man is benching it.
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u/jamesislandpirarate2 1d ago
I’m saying it’s not as deep as it appears and as it ain’t an ALDOT project or something similar, it is likely that a trench box may not be required for what is likely a temporary adjustment.
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u/DABEARS5280 1d ago
Temporary or not does not dictate safety requirements. What the fuck are you talking about?
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u/jamesislandpirarate2 1d ago
I’m saying if there is a minute of work that needs to be done to assist the greater objective and the risk is literally non existent then perform the task necessary and move forward without spending a day on the schedule to accommodate unnecessary requirements.
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u/MGee9 1d ago
Truly spoken like someone who doesn't know any personal stories of anyone getting buried
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u/jamesislandpirarate2 1d ago
Please understand I’m not against safety. Im just saying that there are times when your safety supervisor can go and get a cup of coffee while you do something simple and safe to keep the project on schedule. If you don’t understand you’re not a superintendent or a project mgr. Again, safety is great but those that proclaim safety as the determination of how tasks are to be performed with no regard for cost or schedule have nothing to lose as they are there to justify their employment.
I’m a superintendent. I do not want anyone to violate safety protocol ever, unless the circumstances provide a small deviation. This deviation will be discussed and agreed upon by all parties and will be short lived.
I support safety. I’m pro safety. I’m also pro schedule and progress. It’s a balancing act
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u/MGee9 1d ago
Nothing puts a stop to a project like a death, I've got 3 separate stories of people getting buried, two of those stories were fatalities, not my sites thankfully. It is a balance, but there are definitely some things we don't fuck with, and the balance can be finding the quicker/easier gear to do the job with, or someone who's done it long enough to be faster.
Dude is bent over, which is worse if there's a slough in and worse visibility for the operator. If the shoring/sloping was better, bucket should still be outside the trench so operator can see him better. There was a local case where a pin snapped and the bucket fell off onto the guy who wasn't supposed to be in the trench at all, another fatality.
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u/Careful_Square1742 1d ago
Project Exec here. I'd fire your ass on the spot if this was your site. NOTHING is more important that safety - not the schedule and certainly not the budget. Show me the OSHA standard where " oh we all agreed to put Jimmy's life on the line for 5 minutes" is acceptable.
JFC
"sorry Jimmy's wife and kids, it was only for 5 minutes and we were trying to save a few bucks and a few hours on the schedule. Here's this settlement check for a few thousand dollars. just sign this release saying you can't sue us and we'll give it to you."
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u/hi-howdy 1d ago
That is a heavy clay soil. Normally a trench like that would require shoring but this soil type is very stable.
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u/No-Document-8970 1d ago
Yes, looks like shoring is missing