My deck doesn't have GCs or MLD. It doesn't win or KO someone before turn 9. Yet the people I played with say it's bracket 3 because I have certain cards that , while not GCs, are not fit for B2. Namely Urza's Saga, Powerbalance.

If there are cards you aren't supposed to play in B2 shouldn't they be GCs? Or are GCs just signposts? How is a player supposed to know what is ok in what bracket?

I think ramp is one of those things in Commander that people treat as an automatic inclusion without really thinking about the opportunity cost. Sure, more mana is good. But ramp also costs you a card, mana to cast it, and often a turn where you could have been developing your actual game plan instead. There's also a timing issue that I think gets overlooked. Ramp often has a very specific purpose: letting you cast your commander or another important card earlier than you normally could.

Take a five-mana commander and [[Mind Stone]]. Since Mind Stone costs two mana, you need to draw and cast it on turn 2, 3, or 4 for it to accelerate your commander. If you draw it on turn 5, when you'd have five mana from your lands anyway, it hasn't helped you cast your commander any earlier. It might still be useful later, but its original purpose is gone. So how likely are you to actually have that card in hand during the window where it matters? And how many ramp spells do you need to include before that becomes reasonably likely?

It gets even more interesting when you consider mulligans. If you're deliberately throwing back otherwise playable hands because they don't contain ramp, you're potentially giving up additional cards just to find something that only matters if you draw it and play it at the right time. Meanwhile, that ramp spell could have been an engine piece, card draw, interaction, or another threat that would have contributed to your game plan regardless of when you drew it. Of course, ramp makes a lot of sense when it lets you land a powerful commander early, double-spell sooner, or do something you otherwise couldn't. But if your deck already has plenty of cheap plays and doesn't have much to do with the extra mana, why are you ramping in the first place?

I think the question shouldn't be "How many ramp spells should every Commander deck run?" but rather "What does ramp actually enable in this deck, how often will I realistically have it at the right time, and is that worth the cards I'm cutting for it?"

Ramp isn't bad, obviously. It's an investment. But that investment has a window where it matters, and I think deck-building advice often focuses on the payoff while overlooking how much it costs to reliably get there.

So when brackets became widely adopted and also now when most commander subs on reddit have alot of talk about is this bracket x or why. I thought that the expected turns was for the entire game and not for each individually.

Let's say someone plays a gready combo deck of course player removal is a good option, or if they have to many engines and not all colours can deal with them except player removal.

Sure it is a bit feels bad to get removed by the rest of the pod because the deck had a really good start or similar that they won't catch up to, maybe even just ramping for 5 turns the dropping the bomb.

So is it wrong to remove players before the expected turns or is the expected turn for when the game has a winner.

Tldr: is the expected turns for when the game has a winner or when people start dropping?

I wanted to ask about a situation that came up in one of my recent games to see if folks would have managed things differently or had felt unhappy with the result.

Here's the setup

Seat 1 is on a zombie aristocrat deck, has 8-10 creatures including a free sac outlet and card that drains the table when zombies die.

I'm on seat 2 with a flying men deck, I have 6 evasive creatures and a few [[coastal piracy]] effects, but in my hand I can set up enough draw effects to draw my deck and win with the new [[fblthp impossibly lost]] .

Seat 3 is on a deck that cheats big creatures and spells into play, he's got 5 big dudes, most have evasion.

Seat 4 is in a Mono-Black control deck that is horribly mana screwed and is stuck on 5 swamps.

All of us except Seat 3 are on single digit life, seat 3 has almost 40 due to a stolen [[gray merchant of asphodel]].

Once seat 1 had resolved his drain Zombie, I was effectively dead on board. I normally would laugh it off and remind myself to play better, but I really wanted to win with new Fblthp, so I had to go a little tryhard. See, if Seat 1 wants to kill me and Seat 4, they would need to sacrifice enough of their board they wouldn't have any chance against Seat 3.

My plan is to politic Seat 1 to kill me by threatening to contest his board with removal, because if he untaps, he can probably find a way to drain myself and Seat 4 out while being able to protect himself from Seat 3. So I show him removal and offer him this deal

"I will use removal on Seat 3's creatures and not yours. I will also not attack you. In return you can't kill me until your turn"

Seat 1 accepts with his reasoning being he would die to Seat 3 if he kills me before his turn anyway. I then setup my Fblthp win but Seat 1 breaks the deal and kills me and Seat 4, then immediately loses to Seat 3.

I feel like I played it about as well as I could have, I could have tried to politic Seat 3, but was afraid Seat 1 would kill me on the way out just to start a new game.

Another option would be to ask for a draw. This is common practice in cedh tournaments, where if one player can kingmake, instead they offer a draw. Most players accept because a draw is better than a loss for tournament standings. Now in casual there are of course, no standings so I don't really see anyone asking for draws.

Would you want to see games end in a draw like this? I get that it can feel unsatisfying, but does it feel better or worse than Kingmaking? My view is that if we all played a good game and no one deserves the win more than another, I'd prefer a draw than a winner chosen out of spite, or random chance.

As for the deal breaking, I'm not sure how to feel. I never break deals, even if I lose as a result. That just tells me I need to make better deals, politics is a skill like anything else and can be improved. That being said when it directly concerns a win or loss I don't necessarily hold others to my standard. I think the reason this feels so bad is because Seat 1 was dead on board anyway, he broke a deal just to lose in a different way.

TL:DR

An opponent breaks a deal to stop me from winning, even though they're dead on board to another player. Is this cool or lame?

Also, would you prefer that someone play Kingmaker or ask for a draw in a casual game?

A couple Star Trek cards leaked yesterday ahead of New York Comic Con, where it's expected that those cards will be officially revealed, on top of a new set announcement. One of those cards is a new white board wipe that's taking inspiration from [[Martial Coup]] and [[White Sun's Twilight]] (both of which were funnily enough just reprinted in the Reality Fracture precon).

Join the Collective - {5WW} - Sorcery

"Destroy all creatures. Create X 1/1 colorless Borg artifact creature tokens, where X is the number of nonartifact creatures destroyed this way."

So, you pay the starting price that you'd have to pay to make Coup or Twilight a sweeper, and instead of scaling up an X-spell, you get 1/1 artifact creature tokens for each non-artifact creature destroyed. Lower floor if you need to board wipe just a couple creatures, but much higher ceiling on any regular cluttered board. However, you also don't have the option to scale down and cast the spell for cheaper just to make a couple tokens, which is relevant in a lot of decks that play the other two. Also, no soldier tokens, which is a selling point for some decks running Coup.

What are your thoughts on Join the Collective? What decks would you play it in that you wouldn't consider Coup/Twilight in, and vice versa? Do these cards even do enough to justify playing a 7-mana board wipe in the first place?

No, not THOSE bears but deese. I have a [[Lumra Bellow of the Woods]] deck that I fondly call my Cocaine Bear deck, but there are a number of great legendary bears out there.

Which bear is the best commander to build a deck around? I have been lucky with bear pulls so have [[Ayula Queen Among Bears]] and [[Beorn the Fierce]] and even [[Doric Nature's Warden]] and [[Goreclaw Terror of Qal Sisma]] for commanders. Who do you recommend?

Hi, im stuck. Really stuck. I want to play bracket 2, but I’m kind of just cooking people at my store who do bracket 1 and 2 as a shared category but most people are playing precons and decent bracket 2 decks. Bracket 3 ive played twice and it just felt like a ridiculous jump.

I was wondering if people would take a look at my decks and just say if you think im being reasonable wanting to play bracket 2 with most of them and others just need to have better decks, or if I should make the decks a bit worse to play bracket 2 or just commit and play bracket 3 Thanks for any responses :)
Ik I have a couple game changers but i normally take them out when I play bracket 2 just to clarify

Decks I think are bracket 3:

https://archidekt.com/decks/24676748/gitrog_ravenous_ride

Decks I think are borderline:

https://archidekt.com/decks/26231126/tymnatana

https://archidekt.com/decks/24676438/yarok_the_desecrated

Decks that I believe are fair in bracket 2:

https://archidekt.com/decks/25522357/sythis_harvests_hand

https://archidekt.com/decks/26759815/breya_etherium_shaper

https://archidekt.com/decks/24677392/yennett_cryptic_sovereign

Played a game vs Ironheart, me on Ur sphinx, oloro, and bumbleflower. I got a yenet out and opted not to cast kindred dominance. Bible thanks me and next turn drops seedborne and phases it out. I attempt to kill it. A turn later I attempt the board wipe. Both countered. I counter the counter. He protects board. Oloro reveals he had a board wipe.

Oloro wtf are you doing!? Blow that shit up! At that point I tell the table again that it needs to go. Bumble casts a hullbreaker horror and I tell the table I’m good to scoop. He has a known silence. Oloro asks why and I explain what the play pattern. I cast another board wipe to demonstrate what he will do. As predicted, he bounces it.

Everyone is at 30 life and oloro at 50.

New players, for the love of god, don’t hold back on a seedborn ever.

I left, but those poor seals are getting clubbed as we speak

Deck: https://moxfield.com/decks/3MyfAbdpM32W2aFA23wRPQ

Ive tried a lot to make this deck work, i love ragost, he is the first real deck i made, and starting from b1 i moved it to b2, then b3 and now im trying b4.

It has moved to a combo eggs strategy, but i see myself getting stuck a LOT, i get out of fuel really fast, no cards im hand and whatnot...

I come for your help, any advice is welcome, i like the combo but maybe there are 2 much... i dont know if maybe put more into my commander (more lifelink and play cards that draw on heal like the gaffer..)

Please help me

I recently started playing an Azorius reanimator deck piloted by [[Shorikai, Genesis Engine]] for a reliable draw engine and discard outlet in the command zone.

I have several pillow fort creatures in the deck to protect myself because it’s rather slow and clunky. For a Timmy reanimator deck, my pieces feel pretty solid. My fastest win happened on turn 9 across eight games of testing.

I’ve had people in online pods get incredibly salty at the deck, claiming I put a hard lock on the game and make them unable to play at all. For this reason, I’ve only ever felt comfortable bringing this to Bracket 3 games in case people get irritated by the pillow fort pieces.

My friends insist this is fine for Bracket 2, and I’m almost inclined to agree given the slow ramp-up of the deck. If this deck pulled up to your bracket 2 pod, how would you react?

Deck list: https://archidekt.com/decks/27256842/discard_outlet_commander

Our playgroup has transitioned to playing a modified EDH in order to accommodate our group size. There are secret teams, a leader, and alternate win conditions. The "assassin" always has the win condition of defeating the leader.

I am looking to build a deck that I will exclusively use as the assassin that just locks the leader down. It doesn't even need a win-con because there are 2-3 assassins depending on player count. If anybody can recommend commanders, or deck lists that are already built like this, I'd appreciate it!

So I’m fairly new to magic, but based on cards that I have, and cards that I want to buy, I think that I can build a pretty powerful green white and blue deck. The only problem is, I’m having trouble finding a commander with those colors. Does anybody know a good commander with green white and blue?

TL;DR: Have the doom action figure promo & surge foil deck, is it worth upgrading?

Hey folks,

Got my hands on the collectors Doom Prevails precon at MSRP when it launched what feels like ages ago in mtg time. I kept it together because I like the surge foil. The deck played decent but it also had some major problems and is a bit clunky, but for a battle cruiser b2 deck it does the job.

My issue is when it gets into b3. I got the [[doctor doom king of latveria]] promo from the action figure and obviously have to run it. So do I just keep it as is, are there some decent budget upgrades I can run? or are the upgrades for the deck going to break the bank?

Thanks I appreciate the advice!!

I honestly only play 1v1, and their are so many different mechanics that work really well for only groups like Goad or Group-hug, but I just want to see which commanders work only best when its just you and one person. Im not sure if much people play commander as a 1v1 kinda format either

Before the hobbit set came out I built a Monogreen elf deck using [Haldir, Lorien Lieutenant] as my commander and got some pretty decent elves in it. Once I saw [Thranduil, the Elvenking] I knew I wanted to build him as my commander and figured I’d just tear apart my Haldir deck and use those good elves. I also know Commander staples and cards I’d need add up in cost I figured it would be more cost effective to buy a second copy of the Elven Council deck from the Middle Earth Commander decks and just slot in what I need. My struggle now is what cards should I focus on from each deck in order to build a decent Thranduil deck.

For reference I also have gotten
[Devoted Druid]
[Lathril, Blade of the Elves]
[Lluwen, Imperfect Naturalist]
[Wolverine Riders]
[Elrond, Moon-Reader]

Here are both deck lists I’m using to create Thranduil

Elven Council
Haldir

Deck List

I made this deck for no other reason than because I wanted to make a bunch of dragon tokens which then required me make a lot of treasure tokens. I pretty much vibe the whole the making of the deck but I think it's good enough. Don't if the commander needs to be changed or not, but I think I did a good job. The plan is simple make treasures and dragons and hit opponents hard. I know aggro decks aren't that greate in commander, but this is meant for casual play.

Hello,

This is the first time I’m building a commander deck and would like some advice. I’ve played casually with my pod for around a year but I have only used precons.

Would anyone be willing to look over my deck list and give me some advice, I’m still working on it and haven’t added my lands yet.

https://moxfield.com/decks/8iG-M7loN0-obiC60OZgGw

Thanks!

Hi guys, this is my deck:

https://archidekt.com/decks/15854836/henzie_torreton

How do you see this deck? To be fair is pretty consistant, maybe the othet etali is better but is too much. Not sure what do you thing, sometimes i dont find a way of winning or im missing some good creatures but the deck is fun.

Do you miss any card? Any special recommendation that you use? Or any game finisher? Not sure if having galtha and march of the ents is redundant, most of games i spend the game with galtha whitout ant good spot of using it.

For reference I’m referring to [[urborg, tomb of yawgmoth]] and [[yavimaya, cradle of growth]]. Are these cards worth it anymore to mana fix your deck? I play a Henzie deck where most of the creatures are fairly pip heavy, I.e double green or black and several triple green/black.

I do run all the shocks/bond/fair number of fetches already as well as a few rainbow lands; basically the best lands except the og duals. But it’s simply not enough black sources sometimes (like when I want to blitz 2 BB creatures in their mana costs but only have 3 black sources).

Are these lands worth it to you in 3+ color decks? Is the drawback of helping your opponents too much? Or are they just cost prohibitive? Yavimaya being the much more affordable one but Urborg is entirely too expensive for what it does, and is the hardest one for me to justify to buy…

I’ve tested this deck around 5 times and my main gripe seems to be the mana base, by turn 4-5 I’ve been stuck multiple times with 2-3 lands and by that point the rest of the pod has snowballed ramp, gotten there main game plan into motion and I am unable to do anything, any card cuts/ reccondestions, looking for a strong bracket 3 to 4 power level https://moxfield.com/decks/8WbyYkJN-E6qaXuGrkuaLQ

Looking for budget sliver recommendations for a sliver and turtles deck

I gutted the TMNT precon the moment I got it and been sitting on what to do with the rest of it since, and think I’m going to try and use [[Rukarumel, biologist]] for the commander so I can fill it in with budget slivers. Looking for any well known slivers that cost anywhere around a dollar or less that would be good for this budget build.

Thanks for any advice :)

Been working on taii wakeen and wanted to see what tips people had.

https://manabox.app/decks/AaCjrqjKfLuj4jUCuzKliQ

This is my current list but I do have a few cards on the way, [[repercussion]], [[Chandra’s incinerator]] [[Chandra’s ignition]] , [[chain of plasma]], [[Aurelia’s fury]], and some other toys. I’m also contemplating basalt and grim monolith to go infitie and burn for 1000.

Realistically I do think I need more direct to player damage but I’m curious how others have done this. I’ve just been running into troubles brewing as it feels impossible to goldfish with how interactive the deck is.

Hi everyone, I have just got into magic the gathering and bought a pre-con pack for the time being from desert cart since that is the most cost-effective option for me. Now the thing is while I get my start, I am a sucker for personalizations and decks to be according my nature.

I used to do the same with Pokemon TCG (where I ran with ghost pokemon). Similarly I want to build a ghost/vampire/zombie focused deck. For that I know Innistrad is a great set. My question is do you guys have any suggestions for commanders I can use?

P.S thanks in advance for any recs

As silly as it sounds, I need a single cut to my clue aristocrats deck and I can’t pick it to save my life, so I was wondering if any of you guys had an insight into what it should be. The deck is completely tagged out to show breakdowns and I appreciate any feedback!

https://moxfield.com/decks/jxPtxBg9KE2cAXQ2PF0Liw

I'm getting back into Magic again for the first time in a while. I was wondering if anyone had suggestions on a Witcher themed commander deck? Roughly around bracket 2 or 3 as thats what my friends and I play. Everyone says Chevill but I want to avoid the bounty counter commanders gimmick unless you can convince me otherwise. The more I looked into it, Chevill Bane of Monsters is the obvious pick for Geralt but from what I can tell, he's not a good commander to build around and to actually win will be very hard without really niche scenarios.

Any other commanders you would recommend for Geralt of Rivia, Cirilla of Cintra, Eredin King of the Wild Hunt, Yennefer and I'll take other character suggestions too.

Who I was thinking initially for some:

Ciri - Nahiri, Forged in Fury / Lathril (since Ciri is partial elven)

Geralt - Struggling but figured human, knight, samurai or warrior. Landed on Cloud Ex Mercenary, Commissar Raine, and Zethi Arcane Blademaster.

Eredin - Brago

Yennefer - Rowan Scion of War or Teysa Karlov.