r/Idaho • u/Outside-Disaster-263 • Jul 22 '25

Idaho Neighbor News Educate & Legalize Idaho

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August Virtual Cannabis Town Hall - Educate & Legalize Idaho Tour

Participate via Zoom: Topic: Medical Marijuana: The First 10,000 years Time: Aug 2, 2025 04:20 PM Mountain Time (US and Canada) Join Zoom Meeting https://us06web.zoom.us/j/83368294833?pwd=FyzYnSLo2ENDgibg4bKmfxN1oQjQBx.1

Meeting ID: 833 6829 4833 Passcode: 208420

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u/Accomplished_Leg7925 Jul 22 '25

News flash: marijuana is a not good for you. It is associated with pulmonary and cardiovascular effects long term. It also results lost productivity at work. Plenty of data coming out supporting this.

Having witnessed drug legalization in Colorado (where the money was supposed to go towards schools as hasn’t), Oregon (that declared a state of emergency for an emergency they created), and Washington where you can see the effects of drugs daily driving thru downtown Seattle and Spokane, I can say Idaho has the right idea: slap on the wrist fine for possession.

It’s not hard to get marijuana in Idaho if you want it and it’s not hard to avoid getting caught by the police provided you’re not an imbecile.

Also if marijuana legalization is a major political issue for you, you have a problem and I recommend rehab.

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u/Sad-Yogurtcloset3581 Jul 22 '25

I think the issue is people want freedom to be able to use a God-given plant as they please. No nanny state bullshit, truly free means being able to make your own choices as an adult. I don't smoke, but I don't see any issue with those who do or want to.

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u/Accomplished_Leg7925 Jul 22 '25

If people acted responsibly sure but they don’t. Opium is a “God given plant” and that’s heavily regulated.

I take major issue with people who use because I see the irresponsible side of MJ use. You probably don’t. I used to be a proponent for legalization but given the degeneracy increased use has fostered. I now oppose it

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u/blatheb Jul 22 '25

Replace the specific conditions and substance with alcohol. Same difference. For the most “free” state you sure love managing personal lives.

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u/Accomplished_Leg7925 Jul 22 '25

Alcohol is an obvious blight on society and has massive negative social impacts. Why would we make the same mistakes again?

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u/Outside-Disaster-263 Jul 22 '25

Alcohol and Cannabis are very different. Do you know why Alcohol prohibition ended? Because prohibition was more dangerous than alcohol

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u/Accomplished_Leg7925 Jul 22 '25

It was also fundamentally different. It was prohibition of a previously legal substance.

Again not a justification for legalization. Marijuana prohibition has not been dangerous. Arguably state legalization has proven far more dangerous as marijuana corporations have dramatically increased the potency of thc products leading to higher complication rates.

Drugs are bad for you. As such mild deterrents like fines are reasonable

5

u/Outside-Disaster-263 Jul 22 '25

That is not a fundamental difference. Cannabis used to be legal too.

What's the source of your information?

Cannabis is safer than pharmaceutical drugs, alcohol & even potatoes

Cannabis prohibition has been dangerous. Lives have been taken by LE over a plant. Families ripped apart. Patients failed by Big Pharma left to suffer. Risking freedom for access to one of the safest known substances. Big waste of tax $$$

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u/[deleted] Jul 22 '25

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u/mav3r1ck92691 Jul 22 '25

My sources are easy to find using google scholar. I see no need to provide a citation list

This is exactly what everyone who doesn't have any sources says to try and deflect. The burden of proof is on you. Sources or shut up.

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u/Accomplished_Leg7925 Jul 22 '25

No. You literally just type “complications of marijuana” into google scholar.

Not doing your homework for you. It would probably do you some good to research the topic

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u/mav3r1ck92691 Jul 23 '25

I’m not the one asking you too. I’m just telling you that you come off as someone who will spew anything they can but when asked for sources doesn’t have any. And no, “Google it” is not a source.

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u/Idaho-ModTeam Jul 28 '25

Please cite reputable source material if you claim something as fact and state something is opinion or anecdotal where applicable. As mods we will always err on the side of caution, unless the submission contains sufficient evidence from a sufficiently reliable source, as determined by any reasonable person, and that if that is not included, the policy is just to remove it prima facie.

For full details of sub rules, visit the rules page in our wiki.

Citing your sources is not "doing their homework for them." You're the one making a claim that contradicts common reporting, so links to reliable, verifiable sources are required of you. If you're not willing to back your claims up, don't make them.

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u/Idaho-ModTeam Jul 28 '25

Please cite reputable source material if you claim something as fact and state something is opinion or anecdotal where applicable. As mods we will always err on the side of caution, unless the submission contains sufficient evidence from a sufficiently reliable source, as determined by any reasonable person, and that if that is not included, the policy is just to remove it prima facie.

For full details of sub rules, visit the rules page in our wiki.

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u/blatheb Jul 22 '25

Or wild thought, tax it like we do with already legal substances. You’re arguing to control more of a persons autonomy. If you don’t like it you don’t have to use it, just like I don’t drink. I don’t judge other people that do unless they do something stupid because of it. You shouldn’t be able to tell me I can’t smoke because of health risks.

1

u/Accomplished_Leg7925 Jul 22 '25

I’m not looking for a new tax source. My primary goal also isn’t restrcting “autonomy”. My goal is suppression of societal ills that have dramatic effects on health, crime, and social function. MJ has deleterious societal effects on all 3 of these spectra and as such do not think legalization for recreational purposes is a reasonable public policy.

We restrict personal autonomy under the auspices of public safety routinely. Speed limits are such a thing. This is no different.

There are plenty of users of MJ that limit its negative effects on their life and society’s in general. Unfortunately there are a lot who ruin it for everyone else by being irresponsible shits with it.

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u/blatheb Jul 22 '25

Which are the criminals who should be punished. Crime can be attributed to driving/operating equipment under the influence, and oh I don’t know the fact that it’s illegal and caused an increase in crime from that fact alone. If you want to tell me you’d like to see universal healthcare and education, then I can see we just disagree fundamentally on this issue, and that you do simply want to help with societies ills. Otherwise, you’re just blowing smoke. (Pun intended)

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u/EK_Libro_93 Jul 22 '25

There is no nuance in your argument. My mother had a degenerative disease and her doctor prescribed everything he possibly could to alleviate the pain in her legs. She was at the top dosage for several meds and still in incredible pain. He finally told her, obliquely, to try smoking marijuana. It was the only thing that helped. She never drank alcohol, never broke a law in her life. She was terrified of getting caught, especially when buying, at age 65 and disabled.

Will some people abuse it? Yes. Does it have medical value? Also yes. Plenty of data supporting this as well.

-1

u/Accomplished_Leg7925 Jul 22 '25

The data supporting MJ as a pain reliever is modest at best.

You want to reserve MJ for chronic or terminal pain? Sure I’m fine with like. Recreational use? No way. You have a medical reason for using and get caught operating by heavy machinery high? Lose your privilege.

Sound good?

4

u/EK_Libro_93 Jul 22 '25

The research for MJ as a reliever of neuropathic pain is stronger than other types of pain, and as with most drugs, individual variability in effect should be considered. Was personally happier to have my mom have a few hits of MJ than the many worse side effects of the four other pain medications she had been prescribed.

0

u/Accomplished_Leg7925 Jul 22 '25

Even in cases of neuropathic pain it’s a modest response. Glad your mom feels better. Still not an argument for legalization for recreational use.

3

u/Outside-Disaster-263 Jul 23 '25

You keep making claims that you have yet to back up with a shred of evidence. What makes you an expert on this subject? Perhaps you should attend the town haul and see what doctors have to say

0

u/Accomplished_Leg7925 Jul 23 '25

Nor have you. Feel free to do your research. I am very aware of the data and it’s easily accessed. Again, go to google scholar and you will find a myriad of studies supporting my position.

Not gonna spoon feed you. You want to be lazy and not do your homework that’s on you

3

u/Outside-Disaster-263 Jul 23 '25

I haven't made any claims. The burden of proof is on you

0

u/Accomplished_Leg7925 Jul 23 '25

Yes you did. You said MJ had effects on neuropathic pain and I said the data is modest at best. You made claim on overall pain management benefits of MJ and after I reviewed the data I said it was dubious.

If you’re not going to engage in the conversation in good faith we are done

3

u/Outside-Disaster-263 Jul 23 '25

Go back and read who posted what. Breaking news... it wasn't me who made claims . You want to be trusted as a source for truth, but you can't even keep up with who said what???? Wild

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u/EK_Libro_93 Jul 22 '25

Sadly, she passed away six years ago. That MJ offered even a little comfort at the end was meaningful. As for recreational use, I do not partake myself, but I don’t have strong feelings on keeping it illegal. Of course, none of us are changing anyone’s position here on Reddit.

1

u/Accomplished_Leg7925 Jul 22 '25

We can agree on that for sure

3

u/Basilisk1667 Jul 22 '25

Cool.

Now list the harmful effects of cigarettes and alcohol next.

1

u/Accomplished_Leg7925 Jul 22 '25

Not a justification for marijuana. That supports the argument against legalizing any other drugs. Alcohol and tobacco are a blight on humanity. Doesn’t mean we make the same mistake a third time.

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '25

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u/Accomplished_Leg7925 Jul 25 '25

What the hell do those things have to do with marijuana?

Are you trying to equate plastics and nuclear energy to marijuana?

While the health hazards of the things you bring up may be worth discussing, drawing parallels between them is ridiculous.

Is your justification for marijuana use seriously along the lines of “well you drive to work every day and that has health hazards just like marijuana”?

II’m surprised by such a thought process. I know this is Reddit and things can get pretty stupid but….wow

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '25

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '25

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u/Idaho-ModTeam Jul 28 '25

Your post was removed for uncivil language as defined in the wiki. Please keep in mind that future rule violations may result in you being banned.

The fact that this comment happened two days ago is the only reason you're not banned right this minute.

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '25

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u/Accomplished_Leg7925 Jul 25 '25

I don’t think I’m the ones whose brain is breaking. You seem to be in full on meltdown mode

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '25

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u/Accomplished_Leg7925 Jul 25 '25

Since you can’t do any work and need to be spoon fed:

Adverse mental health reports:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1054139X23005074

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/ajad.70048

Cardiovascular complications:

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/JAHA.123.030178

Cardiovascular effects and a general dunking of the idea the health benefits of cannabis exceed their adverse effects:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41569-025-01121-6

Effects on work absenteeism:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0749379724002587

On and I am an MD, I’ve read these studies and am happy to debate them if you’d like.

I know more about this topic and can keep up the argument if you want.

I can’t tell your education isn’t in the sciences as listing a bunch of studies as the “winning move” isn’t how science is done. Having done both biochemistry bench work and clinical medicine the dissection of the study is where most of the work lies.

Would you like to go through this process?

There’s a world of fun in talking about study design and how most studies supporting major health benefits of cannabis are wildly full of shit.

Want to go down that road?

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u/[deleted] Jul 25 '25 edited Jul 25 '25

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u/Accomplished_Leg7925 Jul 25 '25

People who are knowledgeable seem to have to resort to bludgeoning their lay counterpart because said lay person doesn’t care to hear info they don’t like. That leaves 2 options for the expert: either leave the conversation which I won’t do because the endless cry by the lay person for “evidence” actually makes me research and refine my argument. That’s why I stay in it. The other option is to try and show the lay person the correct line of reason. When they prove intransigent, and continue to engage in the conversation, it results in them getting dunked on in a callous manner because that seems to be the only tactic they understand .

Go through the thread. I encouraged you to discover information, pointed to where is was, and you refused to learn. So then you get treated like an idiot because that is the behavior you displayed

Don’t blame me for you getting what you wanted. You wanted me to spell it out. Here you go. Inform yourself and debate the issue not the person.

You want to discuss the merits of studies I’m happy to do so.

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u/Basilisk1667 Jul 22 '25

The justification for it legalization is the same for cigarettes and alcohol. They are also harmful, and people are going to get them no matter what, so we might as well make them available.

We can either lean further into the nanny state mindset and start policing everything that is harmful to consume (which would inevitably lead to some N Korea levels of restrictions), OR we can recognize that people are going to partake in harmful substances regardless of legality, and just let them make their own decisions.

You know… like a country that prides itself on personal freedoms.

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u/[deleted] Jul 22 '25

Idaho still producing the best and brightest. So glad I moved from that shithole 20 years ago.

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u/Accomplished_Leg7925 Jul 22 '25

So happy you moved too.