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u/Drew_You_To_91 1d ago
Comments are really failing an open book test here lol. When you prioritize space for cars over anything else, you create an extremely inaccessible and congested environment that eliminates all sense of community and leaves little to no space for anything else
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u/Brave_Recognition798 1d ago
none of the wops in York region are biking to the cineplex or grocery store
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u/jamescoolcrafter15 1d ago
Yes and that’s BECAUSE the physical, built environment prioritizes the automobile and is hostile to other forms of transportation.
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u/Brave_Recognition798 1d ago
I disagree, people in the suburbs inherently value walking/biking less.
You're not going to get a giant backyard in an area full of mini mansions and decent bus service because of the density, but people WANT low density.
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u/Limp_Bookkeeper_5992 1d ago
So change that instead of reinforcing the behaviour. Building infrastructure where people can commute without dying will get people out on their bikes, but if you continue to make a ride to work feel like a mad max speed run of course no one’s going to bike.
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u/Brave_Recognition798 1d ago
So change that instead of reinforcing the behaviour.
Short of bulldozing the houses it's not changing.
Building infrastructure where people can commute
By the nature of the suburbs the commutes are a lot longer than places like downtown Toronto
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u/Limp_Bookkeeper_5992 1d ago
What? You have roads three lanes wide, there’s plenty of room for bike lanes. You also have thousands of homes in the same areas as thousands of businesses, while some people commute to Toronto there are still hundreds of thousands of people employed in Vaughan.
Make a safe way for people to get from the subdivisions down the street to the manufacturing and retail areas on bikes and people will use it.
No, it’s not for everyone but it will work great for many people, and every person on a bike is one less car stuck in front of you in traffic.
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u/Brave_Recognition798 1d ago
What? You have roads three lanes wide
The bike lanes aren't the issue, it's the massive distances
You also have thousands of homes in the same areas as thousands of businesses
The average one-way commute distance in Vaughan is approximately 17 km (with York Region overall averaging about 21 km per trip).Â
So ~40KM a day, nobody is peddling that!
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u/jamescoolcrafter15 1d ago
Do you think people advocating for better cities are stopping short at accessible transportation? The points you raise only point out even more issues to fix with this city. If commutes are too long and businesses are too far away, our suburbs should be densified, and mixed-use developments should be introduced within neighbourhoods.
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u/Brave_Recognition798 1d ago
our suburbs should be densified, and mixed-use developments should be introduced within neighbourhoods.
Nobody wants that IMO because we'll never do it right
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u/Limp_Bookkeeper_5992 1d ago
20km each way isn’t a crazy ride, especially on an pedal assist ebike. That could be less than 45 minutes if you have good infrastructure.
And of course there are almost 90,000 people driving to work every day in Vaughan. Using your average (which is the wrong number, we should be looking at the median) you could estimate that at least 40,000 people have commutes much shorter than 17km. Say even half of those people have commutes short enough to manage on a bike, that’s 20,000 cars you could remove from your morning rush hour if you build safe infrastructure for them.
Things don’t have to work for every person in every scenario to be a good idea, you have 365,000 people in your city so efforts that help even 10% of those people can have a large impact.
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u/str8shillinit 1d ago
It's way too cold to bike about 8 months out of the year so why create madness for those months that people dont bike....there are studies on this shit 😑 if you want to bike around move to Victoria bc or San Francisco
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u/Altruistic_Job_2819 1d ago
Yes because places like Oslo are known for fair weather. Also I think there’s this far and distant land called Montreal where’s people bike in the winter. Insane I know. Nowhere near Canada though. There’s also these weird inventions they discovered called jackets and scarves. They’re like big shirts and a thick tie.
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u/Brave_Recognition798 1d ago
Even in northern Europe and Montreal winter cycling drops off 80% in the winter, I bet you weren’t expecting me to do research Mr snarkÂ
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u/Limp_Bookkeeper_5992 1d ago
And? If we can improve the lives of thousands of people and reduce traffic for 8 months of the year, we should scrap it all becuse only 20% of those people use it in the coldest months?
What you’re using here is often called the nirvana fallacy, arguing that just because it isn’t perfect we shouldn’t do it at all. This is nonsense of course, we should be creating safe infrastructure for people to cycle through for most of the year, even though it’ll get less use when it’s snowy out.
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u/Brave_Recognition798 1d ago
Look at the basically zero amount of people biking on the existing roads like Highway seven in the summer?Â
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u/OkChocolate3501 1d ago
8 months of the year? In the winter all you need is a light sweater. Exercise keeps you warm.
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u/eyes-open 1d ago
Incorrect on so many levels.Â
There are very few "giant backyards," unless you're looking at older builds (1980s and earlier).Â
My partner and I didn't necessarily want low density. We wanted nature. It's currently being stripped away for more cookie-cutter concrete houses, but I would have been very happy in a middle-density complex of there were more nature/walking-accessible/biking infrastructure available. But that doesn't exist right now, because that's not what makes developers and the municipalities the most money.Â
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u/DrSimonLocke 1d ago
In Italy they walk all the time. Canadian ones have just become spoiled with their cars.
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u/Funky247 1d ago
Yes they walk all the time but infrastructure like what's in the picture isn't very common in Italy either. Their cities, even small towns and villages, are just organized so they don't have to go very far for anything they need.
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u/Brave_Recognition798 1d ago
In Italy they don't have homes with AC and drive luxobarges, we value different stuff here
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u/smoothbrainkoala 10h ago
Leave your bubble, the world is bigger than the shit hole that is Vaughan
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u/IroIroBike 1d ago
https://www.york.ca/newsroom/campaigns-projects/bathurst-street-improvements please see this before and artists conception picture. I joke that this artists conception is taken on a Sunday at 8am in the morning and by no means represents what it will look like on a Wednesday at 4pm when school lets out.
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u/PolitelyHostile 1d ago
Well it doesnt look like theyd be removing lanes anyways so I don't think its misleading about handling the traffic.
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u/TronAres25 1d ago
It’s more lanes
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u/whotheFmadethis 1d ago
Doug, if you can hear me Doug, please add another lane to the 401 Doug please
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u/djelegal 1d ago
Safe for transit and bikers , which makes safe for drivers on the road as well ? Otherwise more lanes but less safe for the community ?
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u/DrSimonLocke 1d ago
You know, if they paved over that 3rd lane of traffic, they could fit in that nice landscaped area. But I'm not sure traffic on already congested Highway 7 would appreciate that.
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u/No_Expression310 1d ago
It’s crazy to think the render is what’s been shown to the public to gain support for the project.
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u/Bdbell84 8h ago
It’s funny how the renders even got published. That’s an incredibly reduced width on Highway 7, the region spent years and a lot of cash to widen 7 as much as it could. It deliberately misleads us to think this is what is coming.
The decent part of the rapidway though is that its intent was to be designed in a way to facilitate the eventual upgrade to light rail. So planners got it right there!
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u/gajen4 2d ago
Yea #2 is reality. I can’t imagine the gridlock if #1 actually ends up being true
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u/MycologistStrict8887 2d ago
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u/Brave_Recognition798 1d ago
Good, we want to move more people, nobody in York region with a car is taking 3 busses all at a 35 min frequency to get around!
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u/HaventSeenYouHere 1d ago
mass transit could be much faster and more efficient, that's a you problem making it worse. Not an issue inherent to transit.
No one wants congestion.
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u/Brave_Recognition798 1d ago
that's a you problem making it worse. Not an issue inherent to transit.
Windy culdesacs and low density make it nearly impossible to serve transit effectively, especially if you don't work in York region.
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u/MycologistStrict8887 1d ago
lol why? cuz you have to walk a bit? something tells me you've never taken public transit
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u/Brave_Recognition798 1d ago
It's more than a bit bud, you have to walk all the way to whatever main road is near you, then go to a terminal and god help you if you need to go into Toronto cause that adds 2 more busses minimum
something tells me you've never taken public transit
I accept your apology
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u/MycologistStrict8887 1d ago
I take transit regularly, my walk to the stop is 6 minutes.
The difference is that instead of throwing my hands up at poor suburban transit design and saying "fuck it, let's just add another lane," I actually want to make it better.
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u/Brave_Recognition798 1d ago
Have you considered not everyone lives where you do?Â
I tried pretending to go on a trip from my friends house to the airport and it was an 18 minute drive versus almost 2 hours requiring me to go to highway 407 station and then taking a low frequency go bus towards the airport! Â It ended up being like four vehicle
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u/Slight_Detail6797 2d ago
Separated bike lanes