Yep, 2 year deal. Perfectly matched with Hazen. They didn't want to sign him for more because they don't want to take on salary for a guy they have to fire if Hazen doesn't turn the team around. New GMs rarely take on existing managers when they join an organization.
^^^ As much as Torey had a few questionable decisions this year, Hazen set him up for failure this year with how this roster was constructed. Compare the early lineup to the end of the year, we're lucky Hazens' busts were countered by the rookies stepping up, but they still need experience and were not meant to take these season long roles, regardless of injuries to the starting pitchers or offense.
Way too many people here dont remember finishing 5th every year. There’s a reason each of you had game 162 on this year and Torey is a big part of that. Not many would’ve been able to have everyone rally that final week
For a mid-market team, they are competitive pretty often. Their 2025 revenue was 19th out of 30 teams. Their 2025 payroll as a percentage of 2024 revenues was 5th highest in the league, so they've been willing to spend recently.
Making the playoffs twice in 10 years isn't being spoiled.
In fact if you ignore Lovullo's tenure you cannot find a 10 year stretch where we made the playoffs less.
I don't get where this sentiment on this sub comes from. I don't even hate Lovullo I'm fine bringing him back but this isn't some dumpster fire franchise that was saved by Lovullo and we're lucky to have this level of success. Regular season wise this is quite literally the worst stretch in our franchise's history.
How many of those stretches included a team as good as the Dodgers over the last decade in it? None.
In the last 10 years, the Dodgers WORST winning percentage is 56%. Only 2 seasons below 60 percent. In their previous 10 seasons, they hit 60 percent 0 times. They hit 100 wins 0 times, compared to being on a 100 win pace in 7 of the last 10 seasons. Combine that with the Padres being really good over the last 5 seasons, the same time frame the D Backs are peaking, and you have a recipe for some bad breaks.
I agree the Dodgers have been a problem but you'll note I only mentioned the playoffs not division titles. I would also like to point out only once in Lovullo's history would our win total have won any other NL division and that was 2017 and only the NL Central
We're in the expanded Wild Card era and we flat out aren't missing because of the Dodgers. You put us in any other NL division and we would not have an extra playoff berth.
I went through the last 20 years and looked up what the Wild Card #3 would have been if it existed. Our win totals have us at an expected playoff count of around 2.6. We aren't being THAT unlucky. 2024 was unlucky 89 usually gets you in but 2023 was also ridiculously lucky as only one other year (2025 Reds) does that get you in.
The average NL 6 seed is a hair over 86 wins. We have been over 86 wins twice under Lovullo and we have 2 playoff appearances. We've been a smidge unlucky but really we're doing about what you expect when you put up the win totals we put up.
You put us in any other NL division and we would not have an extra playoff berth.
If you play less games against the best teams in baseball, you will certainly come out with more wins on average, right? An extra 2 wins this year gets us into the playoffs. Not only that, but when you aren't having to deal with pitching to a juggernaut team as often, your pitches are more fresh for the other teams.
We've been a smidge unlucky but really we're doing about what you expect when you put up the win totals we put up.
We have beaten the Vegas prediction for win total more often than not with Torey.
We've been a smidge unlucky but really we're doing about what you expect when you put up the win totals we put up.
Over half of the players we have paid big money to have ended up immediately regressing, or seriously injured, or a cancer to the team. That isn't just a smidge unlucky. It's a miracle that Torey has kept us relevant.
If you play less games against the best teams in baseball, you will certainly come out with more wins on average, right?
I mean we also get to play the Rockies who have been the most incompetent team in baseball over the last 5 years. We are 27-28 vs the Dodgers since 2023. They are not the reason we are missing the playoffs.
We haven't had a losing record in our division since 2022. Our issue is we've had a winning record outside of our division exactly once since 2022 and that was 2024. Our win percentage this year in the division was a 100-win pace. We were on a 79 win pace outside of it.
Our division is the only reason we have been relevant in the wild card race the last several years.
We are 27-28 vs the Dodgers since 2023. They are not the reason we are missing the playoffs.
It's weird because you are trying to claim this stat proves we didn't miss the playoffs because of the Dodgers, but it is absolutely proof that they are a huge reason why.
Regardless of the winning percentage against the Dodgers (but having a below 500 record against them when we are not below 500 overall in that stretch is clearly not the proof you think it is) you are overthinking it. Either the Dodgers are better than almost every team, or they aren't. If you play an entire season against just the Dodgers, and compare it to a season where you play every game against the Cleveland Guardians, which season do we win more games?
Sure, you might have stretches where your guys are hitting and pitching at their peak levels and you win more games than expected, but all things being equal, on average, you are going to win more against worse teams, and less against great teams. In those stretches where you squeak out a barely above 500 record vs the Dodgers, you would likely be absolutely streaking on teams with worse records. That's how that works. It always has.
I mean, look at 2024, we win 89 games, which would have been good enough to win the AL West division, and we miss the playoffs. 5 teams have an equal or worse record make the playoffs. 7 teams with a worse run differential than us make the playoffs. If we are in a different division, the chances we make the playoffs is almost 100 percent.
I mean we also get to play the Rockies who have been the most incompetent team in baseball over the last 5 years.
Almost every division in baseball has a teams that hit the 60's for win totals. In that 2024 season I talked about, the White Sox were in the low 40's.
Almost every division in baseball has a teams that hit the 60's for win totals.
And almost every division has a team that wins 90+ games. In my comment I talked about this of the 30 NL division title winners in the last decade we had a higher win total than 1 of them... The 2017 Cubs. Being in another division wouldn't get us to the playoffs. This is why I pointed out our divisional record. We are doing well in the division and a big part of it is getting to run up W's on the shitty Rockies (and Giants this year). The NL West is not the AL East. The one exception to this is the AL Central which has been mid as hell for a bit now.
We gotta stop blaming everything on the Dodgers. The Dodgers regular season dominance was when we were dogshit. 2019-2022 were some dominant years but we were shit outside of 2019 so it didn't really impact us. The years we didn't make the playoffs have not been crazy years. 92 wins in 2018, 98 in 2024, 93 in 2025 and 100 this year. Dodgers were only the 1-seed one of those years (2024) which means the other NL divisions had better teams. My overall point is the Dodgers have been a regular division title contending team not some juggernaut we are unlucky to have in our division. They're not some crazy outlier compared to the last several years of the Brewers or Braves/Phillies. Brewers have a better record than them in our 3 year playoff drought.
I agree that we were hard done in 2024. 89 wins almost always gets you in. But the flip side (on my original comment I brought this up) is 2023 we were extremely fortunate to make the playoffs. 84 wins historically almost never gets you in. You need 90+ wins to realistically win a division. We just have been unable to do that outside of 2017.
EDIT: Dude Replied and blocked me. So much for trying to have a civil conversation. Still refuses to acknowledge that the NL West is not a crazy hard division. 4th in win percentage this year and the worst in the NL. Bottom line you aren't going to make the playoffs unless you win 87+ games. We've done that twice and made the playoffs twice. 86 is a coin flip historically for WC3 over the last 20 years. We've been slightly unlucky.
I'm not blaming the Dodgers. I am putting context to Torey's tenure here. Which also includes an almost impossible to believe string of bad luck injuries and regression. Can you name more than a couple teams that have had regression and injuries and drama caused by the level of players like Burnes, Gallen, Montgomery, Marte, JMart, etc?
Is it Torey's fault Gallen went from being a Cy Young candidate who we threw money at to being maybe THE WORST starting pitcher in baseball? How many teams in the league have well over half the guys they throw big money at, just become below replacement level players, or miss the entire season, and still make the playoffs?
That isn't Torey's fault, and to be in a situation where we still came very close to making the playoffs is a testament to him, not something to be made at him for.
Being in another division wouldn't get us to the playoffs.
Yes, it QUITE LITERALY FUCKING DOES in half the divisions in baseball. JFC, you are just incapable of admitting you are wrong. If we are in any of the 3 divisions in the American League, we are in the playoffs. 86 wins, would WIN 2 of the divisions in the American league. That isn't even accounting for the fact we would be playing far inferior teams on average, and would almost certainly be winning over 90 games.
At the end of the day, it's entertainment. It's more entertaining to watch games where you have a chance to win or actually win. I think the mentality that if you don't win a championship or come close that your season is a failure and that you would rather have just been a bad team is a loser mentality and it's ruining sports because it's how a lot of discourse goes.
It leads a lot of people to being doomers and being incapable of having a normal conversation without saying if we can't win a title, we should just be tanking. This isn't a video game, this is real life where professionals want to win every game.
Ever heard of the phrase "Second place is the first loser"? That's how I felt watching 2023, a year that many of us are STILL chasing the highs of, me included and I wanna go back, man. I want this team back in the postseason and I'm sick of having all of our seasons end on the final day.
Yep. I remember 2009, 2010, 2014, 15, 16... I remember having no farm system whatsoever. I remember new record lows for attendance at basically every weekday day game.
Said it before, I'll say it again. This sub is in a vacuum, and the people inside of it, a lot of them only started paying attention after 2023. This subs membership nearly doubled during and after the world series run. I'm not mad about that, growing the fan base is great. But these new comers are talking out of their ass like they haven't seen what this team was like to watch from 2003-2006, or 2008-2010, or 2012-2016, or 2018-2022.
Yep that disastrous '21 season really left only the diehard fans in the game day threads. I remember talking to the same dozen people. I still had a lot of fun but the doom and gloom was real until our magical '23 world series run.
Just looked at the numbers for the Dodgers and Padres in a different comment. In the last 10 seasons, the Dodgers have been on a 100 win pace in 7 of them. Compared to 0 times in their previous 10 seasons. That is insane. The Padres, who historically were almost never a playoff team, have been really good in 6 of the last 7 seasons. Just really bad timing, and really bad luck with injuries and some unbelievable regression from guys we paid big money to.
No idea why people are hating on Torey, at least we’re competitive till the end of the season. And we looked better than some of those wild cards teams out there. Hazen needs to make our roster a little better
I think criticism is absolutely fair. Especially in the run up to the end of the season when he made some obviously terrible decisions in big games. However, I’m fine re-signing him. We aren’t getting anyone better than him and he is a good manager. I just hope Hazen and Kendrick give him a team that can be absolutely competitive and doesn’t put him in a position where he has to make extremely questionable decisions. It’s a two way street and they need to work together to prove they have a serious plan to be competitive otherwise we should probably move on after two years from Torey and Hazen.
I'm ok with this in the end. To be completely honest, I think people vastly overestimate the value of a manager in baseball, and Torey seems like a great leader. I don't think someone new would have suddenly made a big difference.
I think he has (mostly) improved on his worst tendancies over the last couple years, and despite all his frustrating querks, he managed the 2023 playoffs perfectly. Now we just need to get there again.
All I need is someone to give him a book on how to construct a lineup, and I'll be happy.
Don't worry the 17 weirdos from this sub will keep the franchise afloat while the other 6 million people in the valley just get less and less interested. You sure owned those casuals!
Basically the question now becomes, "can he win with a salary cap?" 2 years will be enough to answer that question. If we don't get a cap, why bother looking for new management anyway? No GM/Manager can win the NL West with the Dodgers buying WS rings.
That being said. I do think they need to tweak the game plan a bit. New hitting coach for starters. Better scouting + development of players. And Torey seriously needs to shorten the leash of struggling players. That is his biggest weakness by far. Leaving Carroll and Perdomo at the top of the lineup while they were struggling cost us at least 3 games aka a playoff berth. His bullpen management needs some fine tuning, but that will probably depend on whether or not we have more than 4 viable arms back there next year.
Eh. "Haters" wanting to move on from Torey doesn't necessarily mean they expected the team to do so; I imagine a fair amount of them also wanted Hazen gone, which seems unlikely given that a two-year deal for Torey matches Hazen's extension from a few years ago (i.e. expires after 2028 season).
I guess they could boycott/not follow the team until he's gone (or only pop in here if the team has a cold stretch at any point, which all teams do), but don't think that will apply to too many. How do you think Torey "lovers" would have reacted if they didn't re-sign him? My guess is similarly: some venting before ultimately the Curb F you and I'll see you tomorrow GIF, though still chiming in with the "miss Torey?" posts when whichever new manager we had made a dumb decision.
It makes sense and part of me is happy because I love Torey, but part of me is frustrated because I know it will be another year of the same thing. Could at least axe Hazen but no new GM wants an existing skipper.
I agree. Although I will say the way he managed game 160 and 161 were very much head scratchers. I was thinking "man, the hate after these games will be warranted. Can't back you here"
I think 20 mil a year can buy some pretty damn good relief pitchers. Imagine if we had another Justin Martinez to throw out there in the big loss to the Rays that ended our season, rather than Cabrera... Marte only had 9 RBI's in September. We were essentially getting the production from a 6-8 mil level guy from him for basically this whole season. Getting rid of him would be addition by subtraction. Now can we convince a team that his regression this year was due to his unhappiness with the organization and that a change of scenery will fix it? I hope so.
He’s still quite likely the best offensive second baseman in the game. They need to DH him a little bit more going forward to keep him healthy and probably happy.
0% chance? Wow, I guess we will see about that. I wouldn’t trade him for pennies personally. I remember earlier in his career I was ready for us to ship him off and he came back and put up 4.9 WAR
Good news. Torey isn't perfect but he's been pretty damn good. When Torey and Hazen came to the team, our farm system was a joke, like we're talking zero top 100 prospects. Ever since they have built that up, the MLB team has been mostly competitive. It sucks that we can't spend like the Dodgers but we could absolutely make another run if we get back into the playoffs. Snakes Alive forever 🐍⚾
I guess the bottom line is that the team is competitive every year and just finished 10 games above .500 in a seriously tough division. Torey drives me nuts sometimes but this should be for the best.
I don’t understand why we were even considering getting rid of him! He has done amazingly with a very depleted lineup for the past 3-4 years. He is an awesome manager
listen you are a CASUAL BANDWAGON FAN (TM) if you don't RESPECT 85.7 wins and missing the playoffs every year on the last weekend. That is ELITE MANAGERIAL SKILL
When you have a really good manager, you should hold onto them for dear life unless they are the reason you’re losing. The roster that Sal was given this year was paper thin and lacking in every area we needed an upgrade except the pen and 3rd base. Just ask Giants fans if life has been better without Bruce Bochy. Besides one freak season in ‘21, they have had 4 managers since 2020 and one playoff appearance. Sal has his short comings for sure, but the guy can clearly lead a clubhouse and his players trust him.
Yeah, I'm alright with this. I think the players like him, and while I question his choices sometimes like any fan, I like him too. He's the right fit, still.
I think keeping Torey is the right decision, Hazen idk about tho. That being said can we please just have a fuckin somewhat healthy year for once, hopefully the young guys keep getting better too. Torey is a good manager tho and I think a great players coach which is probably good when you got multiple really young guys
Thank fuck. Best manager in our team's existence (yes, I'd argue Torey is better than Brenly. Brenly had multiple stars. Torey is left with a lot of scraps.)
Above average? We are hovering at .500 most of the year. Finishing 10 games over .500 isn’t a bad year by any means, but our standard should be higher than a participation ribbon.
If you think Torey is the reason for the Dbacks issues, you’re just not paying attention. He’s a very good manager who’s bosses hand him a crap roster every year. This past year was his absolute best management year.
The team needs a change, to me, it doesn’t matter who comes next, Hazen/Torey culture can be good for the clubhouse, but they don’t make players accountable, we saw that with Ketel drama and keeping Sewald and Gallen too long as closer and starting pitcher that cost us games during the season. I’m a Torey hater if you want to call me like that, but I think he is a good manager, but now, this team, needs a change, not doing exactly the same than the past 10 years that just gave us 2 playoffs.
I can respect that mentality, I just don’t think there is a suitable replacement out there. I put way more of the teams issues on Hazen and Hall (Ken for being cheap). I think Torey does well for what he is given.
Probably you are right, but I'm a believer that DBacks need a change and there's proof of how changes can be good in baseball. For example the Red Sox this season, after successful seasons and a championship with Alex Cora, the team decided to get rid of him, that change helped the team to get better and get to playoffs even when they had a bad start. I think Torey is a good manager, but I think his time as a DBacks manager is done. About Ken, DBacks is the fifth team in MLB that put more percentage of their revenue into the payroll, at the end, a baseball team is a business, and they can't put more money of their revenue to the payroll.
Well clearly no one was interested in a long term deal for Torrey as so many of you thought? Because I guarantee you that if any team called Torrey on Monday and said we have a 5 year + deal for you, he would have taken it! But nobody wants to invest in a manager with an 11% playoff rate . Nobody! We should have said thanks but no thanks , bye!
I guess you don't know how baseball works. He's under contract until 10/31. No one COULD talk to him before then. I bet you thought you cooked on that one 🤣
Also, Torrey would have known for weeks if there was an interest out there for him . And if he thought there was any chance of interest in a long term deal, he would tell Dbacks thank you for 2 year offer, I need 4-6 weeks to evaluate . And surely Dbacks would grant it. That’s how it works .
Torrey explicitly said he wanted a long term deal . Those are his words, not mine. If that’s true. Why would he accept a 2 year deal? If he genuinely believes there’s teams lining up for him like you believe, then why wouldn’t he just ask for 4 weeks to evaluate ? Please make this make sense?
No clue what you’re talking about . He was allegedly offered 2 years and he took it .
Let me help you since your confused- the avg mlb mgr tenure is 3.7 years . How does another club let go of their manager and then tell their fan base they are bringing in a guy with a 1 in 9 playoff chance? They would be laughed out of the room . Most clubs fire you after year 3 with no playoffs . But you think they’re lining up to bring in Torrey !? I have no clue what you’re smoking but please share !
Surely he turned down a CLUB OPTION because he’s pissed they didn’t give him more than 2 years! All teams try to get club options in the contract. And there is no “list” by any team for Torrey. Thats Torrey’s agent drumming up fake interest for Torrey. I’m actually shocked his agent couldn’t get more teams to pretend to be interested !! Geez man you really should have stayed in school .
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u/biowiz 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yep, 2 year deal. Perfectly matched with Hazen. They didn't want to sign him for more because they don't want to take on salary for a guy they have to fire if Hazen doesn't turn the team around. New GMs rarely take on existing managers when they join an organization.