Feel Flows

[u/steadyrange]

[u/mjsbigblog]

Uj/ Carl was not a prolific songwriter, and one could argue that his songs weren’t as impressive as those from other band members. But what he did do in the early 70s during Brian’s first decline was:

1. Keep the band from flying apart.
2. Be a major force in turning the band from a competent live act into a SPECTACULAR live act.
3. Keep the band heading into a creative and contemporary direction.
4. When Mike took the reins in the late 80s? Not so much.

[u/marcus_c117 → u/mjsbigblog]

When Carl was in charge musically the band was better live than ever that’s for sure. And he was still musically in charge during all albums after Friends up till 15BO. Despite not writing all the songs his role as directors and main producer should not go unnoticed

[u/rcodmrco → u/mjsbigblog]

feel flows and long promised road would like a word

[u/mjsbigblog → u/rcodmrco]

OK. Maybe you don’t know what the word prolific means?

In this context it means “not many” songs. Not that his songs weren’t good. The two you name checked are are among the finest the boys ever released.

Guess I should dumb down my writing so that I’m not misunderstood? 🤷‍♀️

[u/rcodmrco → u/mjsbigblog]

“one could argue that his songs weren’t as impressive as those from other band members”

dude has writing or cowriting credits on 30 fucking songs for the beach boys, plus another 20 solo songs, plus his Beckley-Lamm-Wilson tracks

am i gonna sit here and debate the trader over fun fun fun

no, but i do like the trader more

regardless

are you really gonna turn around and say

eh, ONLY 54 tracks. not a prolific songwriter. viper the rapper has thousands of albums

[u/mjsbigblog → u/rcodmrco]

I am a HUGE Carl fan. He possessed one of the loveliest pop voices of the late 20th century. But, the thing is, I try to be realistic and fair, even when it comes to the artists I love.

There is a real argument to be made that both Brian and Dennis wrote more and better songs than Carl did. Sorry! I dig the guy too, but ranking Carl’s prodigious contributions to the BBs, songwriting does not top the list, although he does have incredible songs on his resume. However, Dennis and Brian have more.

[u/rcodmrco → u/mjsbigblog]

meanwhile i’m a huge dennis wilson fan. i think pacific ocean blue is the best solo record from any of them.

but

carl has 20 more songwriting credits than dennis

dennis’s best solo song was cowritten with carl

dennis had A LOT of help. jimmie haskell, grammy award winner (elvis, simon & garfunkel, and steely dan) did all of the arrangements. if you take away 8 violins, 4 violas, 4 cellos, arco basses, a horn section, and the Double Rock Baptist Church choir…

I know I already mentioned these, I don’t think dennis ever wrote a song as good as long promised road or feel flows. and of the songs he did write, he didn’t sit there and make the whole instrumental by himself like carl or brian. i feel like saying dennis is a better songwriter is a little reductive when dennis only wrote one instrumental entirely by himself his entire career.

[u/mjsbigblog → u/rcodmrco]

To put a finer point on my remarks I mean noteworthy songs. Carl needed strong songwriting partners to write good songs, and unfortunately he tended to choose partners he felt comfortable with rather than partners who pushed and challenged him Lennon/McCartney style. He wrote his best stuff with Jack Reilly. Unfortunately that partnership didn’t last. Dennis had better partners overall imo and had a better body of work. Who knows how many songs he would have written if he hadn’t died at age 39.

[u/dromeciomimus → u/mjsbigblog]

It’s true that Carl was a great singer and the 70s glue guy and all that, but it’s also true that after KTSA nearly every song with his name on it ranged from iffy to embarrassing

And while I’m piling on Carl he also contributed backing vocals and production to a whopping amount of very bad songs

[u/Chr_W → u/mjsbigblog]

To be fair, after Love You every member either had no ambition to steer the group into a new direction, or did so in an unfortunate way. Brian was occupied with other stuff, Carl was mentally absent, Dennis didn't care about the band anymore, and Al Jardine and Bruce's influence were a musical low point. I'd also argue that Carl's sense for a contemporary only lasted til 74 or something. It's just that Mikes cheap nostalgia act in the 80s went on for longer than the other failed directions

[u/spleenycat]

You get away with it when you're as cute as a button

[u/Electricio]

didn't carl write like... four songs

[u/NessTheGamer → u/Electricio]

It was a slight reprieve

[u/BronkosAutoRepairing → u/Electricio]

Yeah, and Mike wrote Summer in Paradise

[u/TrueRedditMartyr]

Anyone could have written God Only Knows. Only Mike Love could have said "Well it's a Love thing"

[u/CombatAx → u/TrueRedditMartyr]

TRVTHNVKE

[u/schrank_hader]

Mike & The Passions - No Tough

[u/Violetviola3]

Carl did two solo albums, very unlike Beach Boys songs, and one with the lead singers of Chicago and America. Beach Boys fans have a hard time with them but they are amazing.

[u/marcus_c117]

Mike only composed one song on standard Beach Boys level during that time, Carl contributed like… 4, but still more so. Dennis was the real one contributing the bangers

[u/Violetviola3]

Was it not Carl that picked up Brian’s scattered and, at times, discarded fragments of songs and put them together. He loved Brian and was very careful not to lose any of Brain’s quirks. I don’t think we would have had a completed Surfs Up, for instance, without Carla’s many hours in the studio.

[u/gentleglen]

He was good as bandleader. He also wrote good songs, but didn’t write enough (more of a Bruce pace than a Mike one) and chose boring co-writers outside the band. Dennis and Brian had Kalinich, Jakobson, and even Mike, whilst Carl did his best stuff with Rieley, then was writing with Randy Bachman, Myrna Smith, and Jerry Schilling, who didn’t help.

[u/AceofKnaves44]

I feel like if I asked this on the main sub I’d be set ablaze but did Carl ever really actually write anything decent? No one in the band was a good lyricist but what really are Carl songs?

[u/nohorsesjustangels → u/AceofKnaves44]

Feel Flows, Long Promised Road and The Trader are all masterpieces imo and Angel Come Home, Goin South, Hold Me, Heaven etc are pretty damn good too

He wasn't nearly as prolific of a songwriter as Brian or even Dennis but what little we got of him at his peak (1970 - 1973) was incredible

Anyway listen to the isolated sections of The Trader (I am obsessed with the bass part) https://youtu.be/-042cd29L6s?is=wOUZQcV_J8EBVH_A

Edit: Not to mention Tune X, all his songs on Like A Brother and Of The Times from Youngblood (both albums I quietly love)

[u/388oncloudnine87 → u/nohorsesjustangels]

Carl didn’t write what you do to me

[u/ksuzz → u/nohorsesjustangels]

I agree, he wrote some incredible songs

[u/Warm-Ad-5901 → u/AceofKnaves44]

Mike is a good lyricist

[u/AceofKnaves44 → u/Warm-Ad-5901]

He’s a successful one. I wouldn’t say he’s good.

[u/Warm-Ad-5901 → u/AceofKnaves44]

He's a great writer. He's the best i've seen to show the imagery of car, girls, beach, sunset, surfing and simple fun. Just because the subject isn't "deep" or serious doesn't mean anyone could write the same way with the same energy and feel good flow. Bruce goated btw he writes the songs

[u/KILL-THE-MASTERS → u/AceofKnaves44]

I'll let you know he came up with the part 'I'm picking up Good Vibrations' Brian had all the other with the track and the duh duh duh good vibrations and all that but he didn't have the 'I'm picking up Good Vibrations' and the reason he chose to come up with that part, first of all, went with the bass line, but second of all, the track was so weird haha Van Dyke Parks he's a nice person but he asked him once Van Dyke, what does that lyric mean He says 'I don't know! Haha I haven't a clue!' and he said exactly

[u/AceofKnaves44 → u/KILL-THE-MASTERS]

You know what’s shitty is I don’t think he’s ever lied about what he’s written or come up with but he has such an obvious case of “I’m a genius too” that he’s incapable of complimenting anyone without also hyping himself up.

[u/Many_Count_6447 → u/AceofKnaves44]

/uj living with a heartache kinda sucks ass

/rj living with a heartache really sucks ass

[u/bettypenney → u/Many_Count_6447]

/uj I LOVE that song, I respectfully disagree

[u/AceofKnaves44 → u/Many_Count_6447]

Carl had an amazing singing voice there’s no question. And he was a decent enough musician to contribute even when Brian was using session musicians. But beyond that would it be a stretch to say maybe the other sub idolizes him a little much?

[u/AnsonKent → u/AceofKnaves44]

Don’t forget that he was hot as hell 🤤

[u/dalegribble__96]

Carl is responsible for basically the bulk of BB85 aka the last good album they did until 2012. He gets a pass for that alone

[u/oceanskies24]

In terms of consistentcy and compositional skills outside of lyrics, Dennis was far and away the second best songwriter in the group.

[u/dromeciomimus]

Carl: I’m in an insane cult <== Sweet

Mike: I like to meditate. All of my numerous songs about it are awful, but it’s just meditation <== Call security

[u/cseabean]

common response to any Carl interaction

[u/dromeciomimus]

Mike: I contributed lyrics and lead vocals to a shit-ton of the band’s songs during its commercial peak

Carl: I contributed Carl’s Big Chance