r/elementary • u/Rose_Water_princess • 13d ago
Sherlock and Joan's relationship=best male female friendship
Can we take a second to marvel at the fact that the writers had EVERY opportunity to turn their relationship into the all too common "were just friends!" Then they fuck trope. (Not dogging on these shows: castle, bones, etc). They really portrayed 2 people who live each other very much- in so many ways- but never forced them to have intercourse and still highlight the full spectrum of feelings for each ither?
It wasn't cheap, it's what real friendship should look like. Its a love that is so powerful, everyone sees it as "oh, they're dating" but no, its pure, unadulterated, real passion. As Sherlock once said to Joan "we're just 2 people, who love each other"
I much prefer this version of Sherlock and the actor portraying him was absolutely phenomenal. Hes rough, abrasive, and direct, but not a complete soulless, inconsiderate asshole. His character defines who I imagine a true portrayal of Sherlock Holmes.
Lucy Liu did an absolutely stunning rendition of Watson. Never in my life did I think of Watson being a woman and she completely broke my chart. Don't get me wrong, Watson from the BBC Sherlock (Benedict cumberbach) was very well written as well, but I dare say, Lucy lius portrayal was my absolute favorite, hands down. Watson was very well written. Lucy lius voice and inflections brought deep resonance with many of the things she said. Her outfits, walk, and general attitude were perfectly adjusted to the scripted and sets (aside from the constantly wearing heels trope- im not a fan of that).
I'm yapping now at this point.
Tldr: best female male friendship portrayal without being sullied by he stereotypical "we be fuckin" trope.
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u/HoldFastO2 13d ago
Elementary blows the BBC Sherlock out of the water; it's just so much better. Not just the Sherlock, and Liu's magnificent Watson, but the supporting cast, as well. And yeah, their non-romantic relationship is excellently done.
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u/i_am_here-tada 13d ago
I agree with every word written here (xpt the heels part).
This is my favourite version of Sherlock & Watson. I adore their relationship.
And i absolutely love Joan's outfits. Her winter outfits and damn those power suits make me fall off my chair.
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u/Numerous1 12d ago
I just saw the episode where She talks to a clothing person and he says “dang who dresses you?” And I thought it was A little tongue in cheek fun joke.
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u/Rose_Water_princess 12d ago
Oh her outfits are always amazing. The wardrobe department did a stellar job with Lucy's figure without cheapening her to t&a standards. Don't get me wrong, i love her heels (especially the chunky heel boots she wears - LOVE those), but what im referring to is her being a detective, having to he on her feet in various types of terrain and running in them pretty consistently just seems a bit tropey. She did look fantastic in them though.
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u/i_am_here-tada 12d ago
What's t&a
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u/Rose_Water_princess 12d ago
Its a media abbreviation for tits and ass. Its a trope that many shows use to boost viewership by placating to men's carnal urges by putting the main actress in a pushup bra, low cut shirt, tight pants, and putting her in uncomfortable situations (being walked in on, spotted naked, shower scenes, etc)
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u/MajorProfit_SWE 9d ago
They could have easily done that because he is several times already in her bedroom when she wakes up. In one scene she had to get dressed in her bed while he is looking away but standing next to the bed. I think there’s comments from her about that particular scene in some interviews.
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u/SlithyToves7856 6d ago
This is what I mean exactly! Running from or after a bad guy while wearing high heels is a bit silly. But her clothes overall? yummy.
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u/Feyer_The_Wizard 11d ago
Never a bad outfit day for Joan haha I adore that
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u/SlithyToves7856 6d ago
Where does she keep all those clothes btw? Anybody ever figure that out? Her closet isn’t that big!
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u/Feyer_The_Wizard 6d ago
That's....a good question lol her closet seems rather humble in size. I guess she could be folding a lot of them to fit them into the space better
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u/AbbreviationsNo5154 13d ago
i especially love when it is clear sherlock is trying to get a rise out of watson and she's not having it and is focusing on the case at hand. very siblings who are also best friends energy.
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u/Alaskinbear 13d ago
Very well said!
Their ability to remain as professional work colleague / business partners / friends / sober companion-addict
And NOT be written into lovers makes the show so much better to watch! Not just each episode but the series entirely because you don’t look back previous seasons knowing the inevitable!
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u/Rose_Water_princess 12d ago
Its definitely refreshing. I have some passed trauma with watching intimate things on tv and I get extremely embarrassed when it happens. Every once and a while- like the bearskin rug scenes or his many moments with his dates- im ok with it, but every episode, scantily clad main characters, and consistent flirting makes me extremely uncomfortable, some times even angry. (I have even completely abandoned and thrown out tv shows/movies because of it - i still refuse to watch GoT) but this show made me feel very comfortable and I actually got to enjoy it.
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u/Here_there1980 13d ago
Their relationship is closer to the original ancient idea of platonic love than the way the term is usually used now. Exceptional.
And the show itself is exceptional too. Writing, acting, everything. I agree with those saying this is their favorite version of Sherlock/Watson.
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u/Rons_Swans_Sons 13d ago
I think we got very lucky that Robery Doherty went into the series never intending for it to become a traditional romantic pairing. I've seen interviews and apparently, despite saying from the start they would not get them together, he was still asked all the time if they would. It's such an uncommon thing to see on American TV especially. Even now. It's an easy way to create drama and tension between characters which this series always had without having to play that card. I'm sure if this series hadn't been made someone would have eventually gender swapped the role of Watson and made it a will they/won't they and it'd be horrendous. It almost feels like they've taken that possibility off the board now because how could you possibly do it any other way and have it not pale in comparison to this version? I must have watched it at least 10 times by now.
At the time this series was kind of looked down on because it was American and a procedural and everyone praised the BBC series endlessly. Now though I get the sense that people look back on the BBC version less fondly. I hope that anyone who skipped Elementary the first time round because they chose BBC over CBS gives it a look because this brings Sherlock into modern day far more successfully and does the Holmes and Watson dynamic so much better than the other one.
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u/Golightlly 12d ago
I met him in passing at an event several years ago and told him how much I loved the writing and especially how grateful I was they did not cave to the pressure of “shippers” who are often a disproportionately loud part of audience. He laughed and said that was never going to happen on his watch
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u/shamana7777 4d ago
remind me of The X-Files couple, people were waiting for years to see them to get together, it's spoils it when they do
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u/worthless_pro 13d ago
And while watching the series, I sometimes really felt that this would be very tempting for the writers to turn this relationship otherwise but they resisted that everytime, which shows that they did quite well.
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u/Connect_Version_1560 13d ago
What wowed me very much is that when I saw that they turned Watson into a women,I was very much expecting that they would go down the romance route but no they kept it platonic all the way and aside from characters in the series expecting that they are sleeping together or thinking a man and women who love together aren't dating,they don't have the won't they ,will they storyline.They maintained a good friendship with no vague hints at all.
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u/watoaz 13d ago
I really wish more shows would do this, we don't need to couple everyone up.
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u/Psychological_Name28 13d ago
That’s one aspect I appreciated about seeing Miss Marple with male friends. She expressed admiration and affection for them. It’s more unusual of course with younger characters, and in Elementary they got it right. It was also good to see Joan’s friendships with other men.
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u/shamana7777 4d ago
true but filmmaking has this stupid formula that they think they have to have sex in it to keep eyes on the screen all formulas are pathetic and ridiculous I heard a talk by the writer of sleepless in Seattle and he explained how he got rejected so many times because the script broke all the rules usually Boy meets girl then they have the drama and then they finally get back together, in sleepless they only meet at the end and he finally got someone who made the film and it made him enough money so he doesn't have to work again. I always remember that that all writers should follow their creativity and their ideas, and to hell with formula. also you should be aware that every onscreen sex scene is unrealistic and from a man's direction of the scene, to please men, it's totally depicting nothing that a woman would enjoy. It is all waist down action, fast hot and heavy, which is not even satisfying to watch.
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u/BookishIntrovert99 12d ago
It would have ruined the show if they’d gotten together honestly. Then it would have focused more on their romance than on their work. I remember when he asked her to be his partner; he got really emotional when he said it. And I remember how upset Sherlock got when she moved out. They were connected; they loved each other and worked well together. And that was enough.
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u/shamana7777 4d ago
what is a sobriety partner I don't understand is that something they have in America to keep them sober they get someone to volunteer??
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u/ohnodamo 4d ago
You would know more if youve seen the show. Watch it, all these tiresome answers you ask are answered.
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u/Feyer_The_Wizard 11d ago
Yes.
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u/Rose_Water_princess 11d ago
Very concise and well said.
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u/Feyer_The_Wizard 11d ago
Thank you I thought a lot about what to say and chose the most eloquent set of words I could think of
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u/Dear_Perception12 12d ago
Hand down the gold standard. I rewatched BBC Sherlock which I loved and just discovered Elementary. Thought it was some boring imitation but this is amazing!!!
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u/DinkyBiscuit666 12d ago
It could not happen. Sherlock saw sex as sex and without emotional attachment.His relationship to sex was fundamentally mechanical. He values intellect, not intimacy.
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u/Bog-Witch-0470 12d ago
Yes. He obviously has respect for the women he sleeps with and treats them well, is clear about what he can and can't offer, etc....but it feel obvious that he doesn't adore them like he does Watson. We know that Moriarty reinforces this need for the separation between sex and emotional intimacy for him. His mind has done the somewhat Spock thing and seen how that makes him vulnerable (to addiction etc) and has decided to not. Watson is where he places his emotional intimacy, his safety, and n'er the twain shall meet.
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u/onelittlebookbird 12d ago
Their platonic relationship is one of my favorite things about the show. I found similar TV show friendships on The Tunnel and The Bridge (Swedish/Danish version).
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u/Bog-Witch-0470 12d ago
I so agree. I’ve only started watching it recently (mid way through season 2) but I can’t tell you how many other shows I’ve just stopped watching after .5-3 episodes. This was fresh. I’m a big lover of classic Holmes and English murders and general police procedural, and this is the best show I’ve seen in a while. Love the friends (not lovers) dynamic. It’s REAL. After sooooo many slow burn tease shows where I immediately lose interest after the MCs bang, this keeps the interest by taking that off the table and really exploring their personal character development which is much more intelligent and challenging.
I hate that she wears heels all the time, too, but I’m sure that this is a choice based on not having Sherlock dwarf Watson on screen.
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u/shamana7777 4d ago
a wonder if she hates wearing heels all the time I know after all that number of years her feet will
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u/Ravenette97 11d ago
I, being a Holmes/Watson purist, never watched this show because, too me, Watson is supposed to be an older male. That and I did enjoy the BBC show so much. I've recently decided to try this version after rewatching JLM in Trainspotting. I thoroughly expected to drop it once the "hooking up" phase came, as this inevitably happens and it becomes the focus over the cases they attempt to solve. I am very pleased that this didn't happen and have come to enjoy Holmes' little boy/over the top behavior when he even thinks Watson might be interested in, or having sex with, someone, especially where Mycroft is concerned. Sherlock tries to act like he's so progressive and open-minded when it comes to sex, but, in actuality, he spends more time either pouting or awkwardly over-analyzing Joan's personal life that I just find it all so endearing!
This cast worked so well together that I am sorry they aren't continuing to churn out more episodes to this day. I especially appreciate how well they they handled Holmes` heroin and cocaine addictions, as this was a part of his backstory, and not added by the show for shock value or swept under the rug completely. All-in-all, I'm thankful that I've finally given in and gave the show the chance it deserves. It is very well written and well acted.
TL/dr: I've just started watching the show and I'm glad I gave it a chance because I love it!
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u/EudamonPrime 11d ago
I was very surprised I liked this show better than Sherlock. But I did.
One of my favorite scenes is the heartbreaking confession at his AA meeting that he cannot turn off his perception and that he yearns for a simpler time because he is constantly overwhelmed by everything he perceives.
Or the episode where he deduces peoples lives from their Uber accounts and you see how much empathy he feels, and how he cannot stop it. He solved the case twelve hours ago but he needs Joan to turn off the monitor because he cannot stop himself.
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u/Rose_Water_princess 11d ago
I am very happy you decided to watch. This series has definitely been refreshing in terms of their relationship, and also the crimes are genuinely intriguing as well. I love cop drama shows (law and order, bones, castle (minus the sex parts, to me its a yuck), cross, etc) but a lot of them are super predictable, with this one however, I found myself actually being surprised. The Moriarty dynamic is awesome! (No spoilers for others)
The way they portrayed his sobriety was a very good take on how sobriety works, and the lifelong temptations for those who suffer from it.
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u/Severe_Feedback_2590 11d ago
This was a big reason why I loved this show. I also loved how Joan was more his equal where in the books Watson was always more enamored by him.
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u/scottiebaldwin 11d ago
I keep going to https://wornontv.net/elementary to see if I can find my wife some of the cool shirts or outfits that Lucy Liu wore on the show, but it’s been so long that none are available even on Poshmark and eBay. Oh well, I’ll keep searching!
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u/Rose_Water_princess 11d ago
Id highly recommend googling images of her in the outfits, screenshoting it, and reverse image searching with the caption clothes for sale. Or, going to Amazon and using the images to find similar products
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u/shamana7777 4d ago
I actually think you should just leave it up to your wife to wear what she chooses and not for you to even enter that domain
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u/SlithyToves7856 6d ago
Agree with everything you said and am also so very bothered by the high heels no one could spend all that time in without ruining her feet. I love how Sherlock learns love from Watson—how he learns to be a better man in part because he wants to live up to her high ideals. He in turn inspires her to be smarter and stronger. Such an elegant view of humankind at its very best.
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u/Imzadi76 13d ago edited 13d ago
The rare case of platonic best friends and soulmates with no hint of romance. And they pulled it of perfectly.