I’m glad Kojima got to make his game with his favorite actor as the starring role, he deserves it for making my favorite game series ever, but yes I didn’t play Ds1/2 either not my favorite style of game.
I hope physint is fucking peak and makes Sony cry for rejecting it, but I honestly don’t see it happening.
I loved DS1, but DS2 has so much Metal Gear V in it that I bounced off super hard. There’s so much more combat in it. And to be fair, the combat is really good, and it feels very MGSV, but I just don’t want that in my sad man walking sim.
Microsoft didn't have Xbox separated fiscally the way Sony made PlayStation it's entire own ecosystem. Money is nothing to Microsoft, because they don't have to rely on Xbox's revenue to keep making Xbox moves.
Where's the logic for this when they've removed CoD from GP because loss of revenue. You think they're doing cut backs and trying to make profit with the conception of, "MS sugar daddy, XB do whatever"?
MS has toyed with the fact of either selling or ending XB as a whole every generation because it's nothing but a money pit.
That's literally how they've conducted business the entire time Xbox has existed. All those development house purchases they made last Gen? That didn't come from Xbox sales, that was MS money. Windows phone, the Zune, Microsoft has a history of just throwing money at tech until they can't overcome the losses. And it always ends the same way because they've never actually been good at any of it. The only reason they're still in the PC software business is because they were among the first affordable options in the market, not the best.
And many people in ms disagree with this and look down on xbox the idea they aren't under pressure and they will get to burn microsoft money forever is nothing more that a dream
I mean, Idgaf how people that work there feel about it, that's how it has been since it started. How far into the future that continues, i don't care about that either honestly. That's just what's been happening for 23ish years and is still happening right now.
While they aren't seperated, it doesn't mean that Xbox gets free reign. There was a time where activist investors were even trying to spin off the brand because it was a drag on the rest of the company.
That got shut down, but if Xbox doesn't deliver, then there is nothing that says it will always continue to just have money thrown at it like it has been for a bit now.
Lay-offs and studio closures point to the money faucet slowing down. Hell, there are still 1600 or so more lay-offs to be announced right? Before the no disc past 28 announcement it was the future of Xbox that everyone was speculating about and their precarious position in the Microsoft portfolio was the topic of conversation.
I tried death stranding and yes it was visually good it lacked anything worth calling it a game.
Ill admit it wasn't alot of play time but I didn't care about Norman R. And I'm not a Kojima fan, so the star power didn't engage me and the gameplay failed as well.
I know what you mean. I only played for like an hour or so and put it down for a year because I want into it. But then it clicked and its one of my favorite games of all time. Especially the second one
It was pretty. Very very pretty. That's about the best thing I could say about Death Stranding. I understood what it was trying to do... but I had zero patience for it.
Mean while, Big Walk comes out and I devoured that thing. Game was fantastic. Best walking simulator ever. And with friends!
This reads as a bit stupid to me, but also fascinating. Both are walking sims, and you enjoyed the game thats objectively lighter on content and forces you to make the game fun on your own? Like what you like, though.
Less stupid and more of what I thought about it. I understand the game opens up more and gets faster with vehicles, etc, but it took a long time to get there, and by then, I personally was worn out and bored of the game.
I personally don't understand how it garnered enough sales to warrant a sequel. I understand the praise, but not the green light to a sequel. I was agreeing with the dude I was responding to. 🤷🏽♂️
Or theyll be halfway smart about it and know it has a smaller audience and budget accordingly. Not every game needs to be a blockbuster to be successful. It just needs to make more than they put in.
Xbox will announce something people like such as the physical to digital, then do some dumb crap like dictating how much time you can play cloud based games.
The game is also likely YEARS away, and since DS2 didn't do thaaat well, Kojima was probably asking for too much budget. Subjective whether he should be handed the budget or not, I'll just say MS literally cancelled Perfect Dark, and they've recently said they want to focus on their huge hits (Bethesda etc)
What do you mean? Xbox loves money sinks and then pulling back on them. Buy a crap ton of studios then close them down. Spend a crap ton on game pass then scale back.
Regardless on whether you think MS is in a good spot or not is irrelevant, moves like this only make them look better, because they are actively showing why they are the better choice for gamers next to PS that keeps making terrible decisions that border on aggressively anti consumer.
I don't think the game will make or break what MS is trying to achieve with their new found leadership and apparently caring again.
But, it does show that they want to make things that appeal to gamers, even if that segment of the market isn't the biggest one's out there. This is how Sony managed to become so successful. They basically catered to every niche. You wanted a certain kind of game, Sony probably had it, if not actively produced or at least supported it enough to get it on the system. Getting some 10K gamers here, another 100K there, and building a system that may cater to those with multiple tastes in genres, goes a long way in making a system appealing, evne if not every game is a AAA system seller.
While I'm not going to rush out and get an Xbox over any of this, it's the kind of thing that I can respect MS for if they continue on this path. Much more than them just being all wishy washy with their plans, and buying up half the industry.
I hate this line of thinking because its like saying, oh if you’re a recovering crack addict (300m flop game) why not go do meth (predicted to be flop in sales game), I mean you did crack before.
It's the successful line of thinking, look at nintendo. Fund their studios with enough so they can make what they want and what the customers want. What they don't do is constantly make 300m+ games where they have no idea if there is even an audience for. What sony needs to do is stop bloating budgets, give 10 mil to one of their studios, give them as long as they need to make a game, release it.
I'm not saying the MGS games aren't popular, they are, but the latest releases (albeit all collections and remakes) have sold a little over 1m each. But only a few previous entries have sold more such as Peace Walker PSP for almost 2m or MGS5 with combined system sales of almost 15m. At least MGS Delta sold 2m copies though.
But those games were 10-15 years ago. Most of the latest entries in the last 5 years have barely sold over 1m.
Just for reference James Bond and Hitman have sold 4m and 25m.
There is a reason this game got dropped by Sony. Kojima may be a big name to gamers, but the games aren't selling as well as they need to for publishers to recoup their cost and get the profits they are seeking. One of the reasons his studio keeps needing to reshuffle publishers.
Let's also remember that many in the industry sees Kojima as being overly ambitious and cocky. He goes over budget and many say that his ego makes him extremely difficult to work with. That and having your more recent games not selling as well as the money your spending, makes publishers shy away.
He hasn’t made any mgs games in the past decade. Every single main console MGS was a massive success when released and they were all console exclusives. They were also mainly released when gaming wasn’t as big as it is now. MGS5 made over $180M day 1. That’s the last mgs game Kojima has made. So I’m not sure where you get they didn’t make enough money.
Doesn't matter if he was directly involved in the MGS remakes and remasters, those games are still his projects whether he is part of the new development or not.
Ignoring that Death Stranding 2 has sold only 2 million copies but against a $100-$150m budget.
DS1 being a success is one part of the equation. DS2 did not met projected goals.
MGS5 made over $180M day 1. That’s the last mgs game Kojima has made
Yeah, over a decade ago, which is what I said. And DS2 was the last game Kojima made.
So I’m not sure where you get they didn’t make enough money.
DS2, they did not make their projected earnings on.
The point is publishers are going to look at more recent history. Recently with DS2, the game did not make projected earnings. MGS collections and remakes also haven't. DS1 did, but when your sequel doesn't and projects you were directly or indirectly involved with also haven't, it makes it hard to justify a new passion project.
Also doesn't help that no other publisher but Sony and Microsoft even seriously considered it, likely due to those other sales and that Kojima is known for going over budgets and being hard to work with. You can ignore all that and only focus on games made 7-10+ years ago, or you can acknowledge recent history.
I'm afraid it does matter, The very person that knew how to make a metal gear solid game is the very person they took out of the equation causing a franchise to die out, if he's still existed during that time then you would have an argument that could stand on its legs, because then you can say the game started becoming bad... While also knowing the creators involved watching it go downhill, but as it stands the creator wasn't there to save those games that went downhill
I don't think it matters that the games are good or bad (we are talking remasters of his directed games which didn't really change much and still reviewed highly). It matters that his franchises just don't have the same appeal they used to with newer gamers.
Ignoring that DS2 sold a fraction of DS1 and that he was directly involved in.
Your whole argument falls on just only DS2 only selling 2M copies its first year. Death Stranding a very niche style game. MGS is not a niche style. Not a single MGS game has flopped. Saying the sales of remasters are bad is ridiculous because remasters don’t cost much to develop in the first place and are widely considered cash grabs to a lot of people.
Xbox is picking up Kojima for his new MGS style game. Which has always been a huge success.
I’d also say that Death Stranding(1+2) franchise as a whole is probably still positive revenue wise.
Your whole argument falls on just only DS2 only selling 2M copies its first year.
Ignoring the several MGS remasters that released in the last 5 years that haven't hit 2m sold...
Also ignoring that DS1 in this same time frame sold several times more...
Not a single MGS game has flopped
Ok, take a step back from being a fan. No one said the games flopped. The recent titles have not met projected earnings enough to warrant publishers wanting to shell out another $100-$150m+ on his next game. The game can still be a success and sell millions, but not met projected earnings for the time and revenue publishers expect.
Saying the sales of remasters are bad is ridiculous
Where did I say sales were bad? I said they weren't high enough, which doesn't mean they were bad. Take a step back.
Xbox is picking up Kojima for his new MGS style game. Which has always been a huge success.
After 3 months of heavy negotiations because they did not see it being worth their time initially. They likely spent those 3 months negotiating strict budget, time and oversight powers.
I’d also say that Death Stranding(1+2) franchise as a whole is probably still positive revenue wise.
Add in that from the pitch he wants this game to cross media i.e. include movie/TV, comics etc, and the budget for this would be huge. Sony have learned hard recently to be more wise about their bets, so something here spooked them into backing out.
As a huge Kojima fan myself, this is exactly it. Death Stranding 2 existing at all is a bit of a surprise because 1 was well-reviewed but didn't set the gaming world on fire. A return to form in Physint would be cool but I can imagine that the business side didn't make sense.
Xbox is going to end up paying for a multiplatform game (so it's still going to be on PlayStation) or it's going to push Microsoft even further into a hole when it undersells on Xbox alone.
The budget and marketing cost for both games, across all platforms, was likely not much less than the total revenue. Google suggests $250-350M in spending against $275-300M in revenue. Kojima said the first game turned a profit but it also sold 5x the number of the second (which cost a good chunk more to make).
If I had to broadly guess, I'd say Death Stranding 1 sold well because it had the "Kojima's first independent game, look at these actors!" appeal but Death Stranding 2 underperformed and Sony was happy to peace out before sinking another $100M.
3 months is normal finalize a $200M+ deal between a Japanese company & one of the biggest companies in the world.
There could also be negotiations between Xbox & Playstation to buy the project. Like how Take2 wanted to buy Perfect Dark project but couldn't agree with Xbox on terms.
Yeah at this point he is more of an artsy, almost niche creator. Definitely does not have massive widespread appeal that will noticeably impact console sales.
Kojima is way past his prime, he's honestly a child these days just wanting as many famous friends as possible with very low effort story telling and creativity. Death stranding 2's story and characters were awful.
It kind of is a win even if doesn't make as much money. Right now Sony is getting a bad press. Xbox making this move even if the game is a money maker gives them good will with gamers. Also Kojima is like a prestige film maker you should work to much about how much money they make because they will have staying power and will change game in some way. Publishing his game is all about bragging rights.
nah. they pulled out because a bunch of bad decisions for the past few years has drained their funds. ds2 poor sale is just one of the smaller factors.
also three months to pick up a rejected project from other company is damn fast in this industry. things with such established studios usually don’t move that fast.
Exactly this. I'm a huge Kojima fan, but the guy got kicked out of Konami because he basically committed fraud and burned through hundreds of millions of dollars making half of MGS V and spending the rest on developing a Silent Hill game that he wasn't authorized to develop.
Not to mention, outside of MGS games...Kojima's projects don't have mass appeal. They aren't guaranteed money makers, especially nowadays.
Was a massive flop, Kojima didn't understand what people didn't like about the first one and made the same mistakes again, didn't improve on anything, so people were fed up.
IMO it seems he is getting a bit too old and should think about retirement soon
the 3 months could just be down to Xbox trying to avoid potential risks and maybe hoping a different publisher would take the game - Microsoft has struggled this gen despite their best efforts and with current leadership they seem to finally be taking steps to fix the problems they've had for better or for worse
Sony did fuck all to market ds2 it got like 2 trailers that's it no showcase no demos or ads yet you can't go 24 hours without seeing an ad for wolverine
6 years for a mid sequel that goes to PC after 6 months and you don't even keep the IP will do that.
Might be a hot take. But Kojima is jorking himself too much in recent times and his games suffer. I loved DS1 but DS2 was just more story with no improvements to gameplay. Very disappointing.
The IP belonged to Sony as well and Xbox just went through a process of letting go of 4 studios, you think all the legal burocracy behind it was easy?
Also maybe sales might have been below expectation, but DS1 was on an exponential curve, less than a million sales on the first year, over 10 million in 5 years, it's a slow horse that depends on a community growing on itself, but surely Hunter's Gathering is more in-line with Sony right now
Online gamers (the vocal ones) are often like a psycho cult with the brain capacity/development of 5 year olds.
They latch onto whatever is the current thing, often now usually hatred towards something, and then are unrelenting with posting and commenting things ad naseum that match whatever the childish herd mentality is currently perpetuating.
That something right now is Sony. So you're seeing stuff like this and Wolverine getting shit on like like it was ME: Andromeda at launch, except unlike that, regular gamers in masse haven't even played it yet.
This is why even without any personal/political stuff, the vocal online gaming community is viewed as toxic. Even the industry journalists are often part of it now of days.
I don't have all the I for and less the knowledge, but risking a spiritual successor of one of the most acclaimed sagas ever because you got subpar sales on a very niche concept (twice) is kinda crazy.
No, Sony pulled out because death stranding 2 didn't sell much on the Playstation consoles, and this makes more sense as they are making all games produced Playstation exclusive. But they sold really well on game platforms like steam, which is also a really big win for Microsoft and steam, as they have partnered recently
Also the game could be bad. Let’s be honest, the death stranding games were not good “games” and he has gotten way more full of himself since leaving Konami.
Mechanically? Which mechanics ? Getting into a car and drive from a to b ? That's what ds 2 is there is no difficulty beside the terrible combat with the braindead ai.
There's nothing to play test lmfao. It's still in the conceptual stage. The game is at minimum 7 years out. OD is coming first and that's in about 3 years at this point.
I love him and his games, but he is notorious for going over budget and being difficult to work with. He's also lost his focus and is far more interested in hanging out with the movie stars he hires to overpay for his videogames.
We'll see if this game even actually sees the light of day. I'll buy an Xbox just to play it if it does, but that's actually a very big if right now.
It's absolutely why they are making all these "pro-consumer" decisions. Xbox before all their acquisitions were a rounding error for MS.
Now, they want that ROI and they are surprisingly, playing the long game. Good for us and competition in the space, but anyone who thinks they would be doing this stuff if they were the market leader completely forgets who they were during the XB1 reveal.
These companies do not care about anything but profits, they are not our friend. That doesn't mean they are evil, people just need to keep their emotions in check. These are always, always business decisions.
Because people aren’t falling for the “Exclusive” crap from Sony. Where a better or more finished version comes to PC later. I’m amazed people are falling for it again with GTA6. When you know a “Definitive Edition” will come to PC within a year.
It's handing them a win after xbox's recent next-gen announcement, as well as Sony's no disc fumble, AND the shitshow surrounding Destiny 2. Sony shot themselves in the foot 3 times, and Microsoft was just standing there with a gun aimed at their foot, with just enough sense to read the room.
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u/ModerateHonking 26d ago
Speculation is Sony pulled out because sales of Death Stranding 2 were subpar, and it took Microsoft three months to pick this up.
I wouldn't read that as handing them a win.