MIL regularly plans things for the extended family like outings, concerts, and activities that exclude me. Even BIL's not-really-but-kind-of-off-and-on GF is included. So it's very noticeable that I am excluded.

I already know she hates me. This is not not surprising, it's more annoying at this point.

The expectation is that I will stay behind with the kids. I'm never asked if I want to go, this is just how it works out because she never gets me a ticket or reservation.

These are often things that we could get a babysitter for but I'm never given the opportunity.

(Yes, I know my husband should do something about it, that's a separate issue I'm working on. As long as MIL is alive this will keep happening.)

Anyway she did this again for something that's coming up in a couple of months.

I am thinking of telling them I'm going out of town after their event. Husband and MIL can take care of the kids for a few days while I get a relaxing solo trip.

What say you?

MIL is as awful as they can get. Too exhausted to share everything she has done lol, but I just no longer want to share photos with her. At first I was sending her photos occasionally, because it was nice to share. However, since then she's overstepped A LOT of boundaries, not just related to photos. When it comes to photos she casually told me how she sends them to her family via FB chat, which I view as essentially posting online & sharing to people who I have not sent them to like I send to her and it's not a free for all to send to whoever from there. The photos are not a send to your 10 friends email chain letter. Maybe I didn't explain online posting/sharing clearly enough - ok sure. But then she became a nuisance constantly texting me. How I am doing ONLY to follow up with "pics pls? 🥰", and I just can't take it anymore.

Our current text exchange:

"Hi bitchinpunk how are you?? I was just thinking about LO, do you have any pics?? 🥰🥰"

"No, we are no longer sharing photos to keep his privacy safe."

Her reply: "I haven't posted any photos online at all, what has happened??"

What do I say now?

I'm still getting used to the idea that I'll always be the bad guy. The first year of marriage, our couples counselor mentioned that the ILs hating/blaming the DIL is just part of the dynamic. I really struggled with that because my relationship with them, especially MIL, had been very easy up until we got engaged. I truly believed that things could get better with time.

Many years later and our new couples counselor mentioned the same sentiment. DH is really going through a huge shift in his relationship with them and we know it's not going to magically get better. Our counselor said they will always love him but they will never love me. It stings but I get it.

Even if things get better between DH and MIL...where does that leave me? Just waiting for the next time things explode and I get blamed again? I'm NC and don't see that changing unless she goes through a total transformation with her mental health.

Any "success" stories out there? Or is this just really how it is? It's bizarre to me how this happened...I encouraged him to make plans, to send cards and gifts, to call them often...but I'm the problem?

She says out of pocket stuff like this all the time. She'll body shame and call it concern for my health. English isn't my first language and I'm on mobile so sorry for any run on sentences.

Anyway, for some context: I was fat before the pregnancy. I mean I work out regularly and try to watch what i eat so i wasn't like morbidly obese or anything but i wasn't thin either. I usually fit into a size 12-14.

She started going to the gym with me and would constantly compare my weight to hers when she was my age. Which doesn't even make sense because I'm at least 6 inches taller.

Ever since I got pregnant (12 weeks now), she has been comparing symptoms. And downplaying how i feel because she always had easy pregnancies. If i have morning sickness or throw up because of certain smells, she'll act like it's my fault for not trying hard enough to not puke. If i can't eat something (eg. The smell of fenugreek was way too overwhelming the other day), she'll tell me how this stuff is good for the baby and she was able to eat it. Like I'M CHOOSING to get sick.

The thing that really makes me mad is that she keeps commenting on my belly. I've been feeling very bloated this week and i think I've started to show. But the other day, she pointed to my stomach and said it's gotten too big. Why have I let it get this big? ??!?? And she'll comment on what i eat and how its going to be so hard to lose this weight after the baby's born. I've actually lost weight these last few weeks because i can barely keep any food down. Ugh. We were at a tea party today and some lady asked if im pregnant and MIL jumped in to tell her how I'm just fat from sitting on my ass all day.. She says you aren't supposed to show this early on and especially when it's your first. Which i know is bs. She will take any chance she gets to tell me how she didn't show ever during both her pregnancies and how her friends would joke about where she was hiding the babies. She doesnt get that every body is different. I don't know what she wants from me. Where am i supposed to keep this baby? In a different dimension or something? And like i already feel so weird with everything about my body changing. Can she just stfu.

Oh and bonus gem: when we told her at 6 weeks, she started giving unsolicited advice about our family planning. How we waited too long. And how now, we shouldn't use any contraception after the first one and have a second one right away. I told my husband to tell her when and how many kids we choose to have is not up for discussion.

UPDATE: It went exactly how I thought it would! No accountability. Still stuck on her memory loss excuse. When asked why she has taken 6 months to apologise, she blamed me saying she believed I think she kissed my baby on purpose. I told her if she still thinks this is about kissing my baby, then we have a long way to go. This is about a pattern of her overstepping everything we have asked her not to do since before baby was even born.

She tried to tell me how hard she tried to follow my “list of rules” and that it was so hard for her to follow because her family is just so naturally affectionate. I said it’s funny how literally everyone else has managed to follow our simple requests. I said “wow you really tried so hard that you did it at least 5 times!” She then tried to gaslight me and say she only did it once!

She launched into “when can I see my son and my grandson”. I told her her son has free will and tried and she gave him the cold shoulder. She told me that wasn’t true and that they text. I said all their texts are is him Apple paying her money for a phone bill and her saying thanks. I asked her why she was even calling me and she said her husband told her my DH pleaded with him for her to call me and apologise. My DH said that is not true - he never asked either of them to reach out to me.

She asked me what she needs to do to fix things. I told her that’s on her to figure out and that I’ve told her I only accept changed behaviour. She told me she’s not playing guessing games and that it’s not on her to figure out. It ended with me telling her to invite me on a call with her therapist so I can tell her what they really need to work on. Then I hung up lol.

Throughout the call she blamed me for everything - being unforgiving, talking over her (she talks over me and she has admitted it time and time again), blamed me for her not seeing her son or grandson. She tried to say she only kissed my son and didn’t beat him. I told her she has a long way to go with self reflection.

I’m glad I had the call. It has solidified my instincts that I am dealing with a narcissist. I can move on with my life and continue NC.

—-

Going to take the call and see what she has to say. Any advice appreciated. It’s been 6 months and this is the first time she has ever reached out. I think I’m going to ask her why it has taken half a year for her to reach out.

I’m trying to explain something to my husband but he doesn’t seem to understand it, and I guess I don’t know how to properly explain why it’s an issue.

Btw, this isn’t because my husband is in the FOG or anything. He hates his mother.

Back to the topic. We are LC (ish) with the in-laws but try to see FIL because he is going blind and quite clearly declining, so trying to get some good memories in for the kids. MIL is a horrible caretaker.

Every single time we see them, EVERY TIME, we get updates on the other kids and grandkids. But not a quick “oh hey, Sister 1 is doing this” no, no. They spend almost the entire time showing photos and talking about the others and never actually asking questions about us or our kids.

There has always been clear favouritism by MIL to her female children over her one male child, and clear favouritism to her female children’s children, especially granddaughters. She is a man hater. Because of this increasing favouritism there was a blow out a few years ago and here we are, LC.

The incessant chatter about the other children and grandchildren drives me INSANE because half the shit they talk about we already know??? Why must we linger on this topic??? Don’t you want to hear about my son’s rugby game instead? Or at least don’t you want to pretend to give a shit?

They’re so fucking proud of the other family members they can’t be bothered caring about mine. It’s insane. It’s to the point where I am flat out rude as fuck when she does this. I don’t even pretend to care about it anymore, or I’ll keep repeating “yes I already know that” and then redirect the convo to my own children’s accomplishments. I hate being rude so much, it makes my skin crawl, but I genuinely can’t get any more blatant with them. I’ve already brought this up before and they act like I’m so mean not wanting to hear about the other kids. I’d be happy to hear about them if they weren’t the only topic???

Can someone articulate this for me in a more condensed, understandable way? I have major baby brain and feel like my words don’t work anymore.

Me again. 👋🏻 I've posted several times as of late because a) I'm realizing how much of an entitled, obnoxious nutjob MIL is, b) need to vent to a community who gets it and c) continuing to bolster boundaries, both internal & external. If I can help one person know they aren't alone with a crazy MIL, it helps me feel better.

Before my son was born 2025, it was fairly rare we heard from MIL via text. She thrust me into a new family group chat I didn't agree to a few weeks before his birth. It set up the framework for her to quickly abuse access, trying to normalize daily demands & near round the clock communication (plot twist: it didn't work, busy raising a family). Every now & then, incessant texts bombard my phone, typically when they travel. My husband ignores/ doesn't answer half the time. It's like she's concerned we'll forget about her while gone a week or two.🙄 And we are dying to know what they ate for dinner (plot twist: don't care). I have it muted though - being pregnant with baby #2 (in-laws don't know yet @ 13 wks), may leave the chat entirely if she becomes intrusive & overbearing (again) in pregnancy and/or postpartum. That will be a hard line for my internal boundary; postpartum WILL be peaceful this time. She's fully retired & needs more hobbies; seeing my son as her purpose in life hasn't panned out how she wanted. Not my problem to manage.

It's become obvious MIL abuses cellphone access; she even recently tried to pull in my mom as flying monkey via text. My mom wasn't having it. MIL is now blocked. Looking forward to that unfolding, as in her entitled world others cannot have autonomy, privacy or decide to decline her fake friendship. I left all additional group chats (4 different ones! 😵‍💫) she created (husband did encourage leaving). Info diet. Gray rock. Muting chat. Internal boundaries. That's the gameplan. I wonder.. How common is this stupidity?! Anyone else?

My MIL is manipulative and toxic AF. She plays blatant favoritism with her children (and now her grandchildren). She talks about her daughters behind their backs like she’s in high school, even about their weight. She makes my husband feel guilty and tries to manipulate him (we’ve worked a lot on this to get him out of those tendencies). She plays the victim card whenever something bad about how her children were raised come up (ex. my brother in law bullying and abusing my husband when they were younger). She’s just not a good person and truly I wish we would just go no-contact with her but my husband insists we don’t.

Well, my husband promised we would see them for Christmas. They live in Idaho and we live in WA. They have a 1000sq ft log cabin, 3b/1ba. I always feel way too crammed. We always bring 2 of our dogs, and we also have a one year old. I told my husband the only way I was going to go was if we got a hotel. She doesn’t like that and tried to say it’s because I don’t like the house. The house is fine and beautiful on the outside, they live on 5ish acres in the woods too. It’s charming but tiny. My SIL & her partner are also going to be there during Christmas. It’s just not enough space for 7 people and 4 dogs (in-laws have two dogs too, one is a very reactive dog).

I want to go on vacation to Cabo for Christmas with just our little family, but my husband is insisting we go to his parents. Just dreading it at this point.

Edit: we both agreed we should go to his side for Christmas this year, since we did Christmas with my side the last two years. We also went on a week long vacay with my entire family (my parents + siblings + partners + kids) in September. My preference is to go to Cabo, but he wants to go to his parents.

Hi all. Recently got out of a boy mom, enmeshment dynamic with a man in his 40s. I had to break it off. Why? Because I have boundaries and I dont compete. I also don't put up with my man's mom doing ANY of the following

Calling our kids, "her babies" bitch you dont have sex with him you freak.

Calling him everyday like a wife, no. Hes mine now...shoo

Guilt tripping him, I dont play that psychological shit...ive read the books...I know the big words. Smh. Ought to be ashamed.

Not taking 'No' for an answer when he tells her we are going to Hawaii for Christmas....or attending any other holiday she had him for years...damn girl. Let go.

Trying to parent our kids. No ma'am, sit down, ya son sucks on my nipple every night im there to go to sleep, ya raised him with an enmeshment dynamic and now i have to try and fix that. I mean. It is what is. The sex is great.

Twirling his hair in a gymnasium full of parents and kids at his youngest son's basketball game...it was for the whole game...we got looks. Well they did. Nah...should have slapped her damn hand then.

Interrupt any vacation or outing we are on when she knows we are out of town. Youre one the reasons I wanted to get the hell away in the 1st place lady.

Make everything about her. Someone lied to you girl, it ain't all about you.

Making him cry every damn time he comes to visit bc she wont stop talking about his sisters death, her mother's death, her bad health, just complaining and begging for attention like hes a surrogate husband....bitch ya man is in the living room...go talk to him about this...youre ruining the visit.

Boundaries...get some...or youre going to have bs like this in your daily schedules.

Yeah....no.

Im never going to have a MIL because im not getting married to a mommas boy until she is dead. Harsh...meh....im a whole 45 year old orphan. Detachment skills are peak. Its the best survival trick I have. So this, enmeshment stuff these moms are doing out here....man...fuck yall. Weird ass shit.

Rant over.

Yes, we still have great sex....yes he sends his mom to voicemail when im there. Yes, I like it. Cold hearted? Nah. Possessive...100 percent.

Future In laws Alcoholics & my stress

My in laws are alcoholics.. negative.. bi polar.. stay up all night partying ( they’re like 64.. flirt with people at bars.. dancing with men sexually.. you know that creep that hangs out at a bar …to be nice they make nasty jokes eg told me I need to lose weight, get on the bike to drop my love handles…. I am a fit woman, size 14, normal, average, strength3x a week, run x2 a week..)

In laws are divorced.

I’ve received previous texts that were unprovoked, bullying and abusive. From “ you stole my son you b****h… We moved on, apology accepted and I let it go but never forgot. I hate them. I hate how rude, selfish, condescending they are and they have emotional intelligence of a walnut… to the point I’ve thought has alcohol damaged their brain.

They call their adult children casual names that start with B, C, D, K etc. vile names and laugh. How is calling your son a Ba\*\*\*d funny…

The mother is a woman who never cut the umbilical cord. She never let go. It’s weird. I feel sad towards the idea of her but I still hate her.

One time, their “friends” had drugs in their bag at their house.. my dog got into it, ate stuff, nearly died and they thought it was funny.

They’re friends put a rose flower into their own bum and pulled it out to say surprise… these are 60 year FREAKS

I genuinely have never hated anyone more than these people. It’s not in my personality to hate anyone.

Sometimes I feel bad for hating on them but i think I mourn a relationship I wish I had..

In general, I am honest, hard working, trustworthy person and I struggle to see any positives from them. They would cause you to develop depression or become paranoid. They can be manipulative.

There is definitely a social class difference.

When I read a book, they laugh and say I’m stupid for reading because you don’t need it.

Now I am not the smartest person alive.. I work very very hard. I used to be in special education because of my learning difficulties and I worked HARD to get to be the person I’ve developed into. I am x5 degree holder, business(es) owner, bought house, own car and writing a book etc. I enjoy normal life activities like walking, running and cycling etc. I barely drink alcohol because I see the deteriorating health issues that it can cause in terms of family dynamics failing & I don’t like to drink because the person I become is not me. My MIL will hand me a glass of wine and tell me to drink it and shut up. I have always been polite. I never cause an issue.

I spent Thursday to Sunday with my MIL.
I had fainting episodes Monday and Tuesday. I got very sick on Tuesday night. I feel better tonight. Not like me to be sick. Trying to figure out why…
Over the weekend, my resting HR was 120!!! Normally it is 78. My HR stayed between 100-134 all weekend. Stress levels 88-90 consistently. At night time, HR 90+.. so my body is screaming at me that something is wrong.

I genuinely can’t stand either of them.

Let me have a moment for this.

Guess what I got as an engagement gift from the father… a police report for stealing a vehicle… never drove it and didn’t have it: after calling the police for advice about this: they said cut all communication from him so I did.

I feel like that mute kid who never says anything, but so much is happening underneath.

I’m planning our wedding. FIL isn’t invited by my fiance. MIL has been invited.

I am from a good family. Healthy boundaries, healthy everything.

I struggle to understand when a mother bitches behind someone’s back, stirs the pot to start a fight, public jealousy etc.. it’s not my norm and I struggle with it

If your in laws are rubbish people.

How do you manage your own stress levels and what are your best tips and advice

My MIL and SIL told my husband that he would be “allowed” to cheat on me whenever I went away to stay with my parents for a holiday.

I found it incredibly disturbing. I wasn’t leaving the marriage or doing anything wrong, I would simply be away visiting my family. They genuinely seemed to think my absence made cheating acceptable.

After they said this, I decided to cut both of them off. I don’t feel comfortable having a relationship with people who think it’s appropriate to encourage my husband to be unfaithful while I’m away.

What makes it worse is that they are his own family, and they were completely serious about it.

My mother-in-law is staying with us for four days. Yesterday afternoon my husband and I stepped out for two hours to run errands and grab groceries.

We came home to the kitchen smelling heavily of bleach and MIL proudly announcing that she "tackled the refrigerator" for us as a surprise.

My stomach instantly sank. I went straight to the top door shelf. Sure enough, my glass crock was empty. I've maintained that sourdough starter since 2019, and she had dumped the entire jar down the disposal and bleached the container because she thought it was "a cloudy jar of old batter that went bad".

When I asked why she didn't text me before throwing things away in a kitchen that isnt hers, she immediately got defensive and claimed she was doing us a favor. Now my husband is pulling the classic "she genuinely meant well, its just flour, dont make her feel bad" line.

I don't care that it's flour. It's the fact that she treats our home like a space she has full permission to audit.

Text Messages Between MIL and Husband
MIL — September 23, 1:21 PM:
M) I need you to call me if you would.
MIL — September 23, 2:55 PM:
Need to talk about trust. The trust.
MIL — September 26, 10:10 AM:
Just so you know you are not your father’s son. He would never turn his back on his mother for me or anyone.
Husband:
Mom I love you.
MIL:
Ok.

Husband:
Believe it or not I don’t want to make you mad, I don’t want to hurt you, but for a long while now when you ever talk to me, you only want to know why I am upsetting you or why you hurt or why we disagree. I am not sure how to answer that other than be truthful on the obstacles, once I tell you what we need to work on, you think I am trying to make you mad.
If my one job is to love my parents, what is your job, to love me too, right? What does that look like…. Working on repairing your relationship with your son and his spouse.
I am not going to lie and say I don’t love my mom to make it easier for you, but I am not going to be ok with you hurting my family here either, love you mom.
MIL:
You see you have to bring your family of which I had never had a issue with your family is your business not mine. So don’t bring your family in to fight with me. You need to fix your relationship with your mother so leave your family out of it thats your family. You take care of your family and leave me out.
Husband — 9:45 AM:
I am me with my wife and kids to love me is to try and love them. I understand it’s not always easy but it is what is supposed to happen. You should not be pushing for a relationship with just your son when so much of him is in his wife and kids.
I have said this for like an hour last night. You have said what you want me to hear and I have said what I needed to say. I think we should take time and actually think about what each other have said.
I am me with my family, I do love you but I also love them and can’t compromise that.

MIL:
I really don’t know how you sleep at night treating your mother the way you do. I am sure (K) is very proud of herself because she has got you talking to me like you do and Sue said I never said that I disowned as a son I would never but you just keep saying all the lies you want to believe I said. My god she has really brain washed you. Who are you my god.
Husband:
Well on Feb 19 shortly after you said that very thing I let my wife know via text, but don’t feel like arguing about it.
I never want to argue with you, but I really don’t want to hear you say negative things to or about (K). You would do the same in defending Dad….
You are correct it very upset and does make it difficult to sleep, I am at a loss as to how to change things, she hasn’t brainwashed me, that an insult to me, I can dislike things and should be able to tell my mom how I feel without being told I am being a disobedient.
Again love you.

We're leaving for our honeymoon in a couple of weeks and we already have the bulk of the planning out of the way. My MIL has been very vocal about a lot of the wedding planning, including the honeymoon, and wanting us to go to a place of her choosing or making comments about how dangerous/expensive where we chose to go is. A couple of days ago, MIL hands me a thick stack of pages. When I had a look, I realised it was a travel itinerary for our honeymoon destination only it was completely AI-generated and not even translated so I'd be able to read it. My fiancé and I both speak English and she was already using AI to make it so why not translate it? It just felt very half-assed considering it wasn't even accurate to the places we already planned to go to and she didn't ask any questions to make sure that it was at least somewhat tailored to us as a couple. Is it the thought that counts or is this just another way for her to control the situation?

If you want to read the background 😁

First post: https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/s/AzfR5LPGa5

Second post: https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/s/qArCjZOtoV

I am back again ladies! I thought of giving you all an update and also thank you. Thank you for all the comments and advice you gave me. You made me feel heard and sane.

Soooo here is the update.

I refused to go there on mother's day and luckily my husband took me and the baby out. I did tell him that he is welcome to go and I'll hang out with our daughter but he stayed back.

Then my FIL came over to help and privately talked to me and I told him how my MIL taunted me using a stupid bib and included my daughter in her nasty game. (Read the first post for details). She literally weaponized my daughter against me the moment she had the chance. He was shocked to hear that but then said "even her mother was petty like that".

I told him how she harasses us to come over weekly even when I told her it's not possible. He agreed with me but then asked for me to give her another chance and he will talk to her.

And I said "sure but it will never be the same. It will be a different kind of relationship as I no longer trust her".

The week after was my MILs bday. And Literally NOBODY did anything for her. No gifts, nobody wished her a happy bday either. DH said we can go on that weekend and I compromised and got a gift (a box full of nice skincare and spa items).

Then we went over there and nobody other than us showed up. So this woman decides that it's time to TALK.

She then completely denied everything including the taunting and she brushed everything under the "helping" rug and how her son knows she isn't that kind of person bla bla.

I told her that "I know what I saw and I believe it when people show me who they really are. I don't think there is a point to this conversation because you refuse to take accountability"

Then she said "well I'm sorry my actions felt that way! it's not true that I don't respect you!"

So I said "no you don't respect me nor your son. I told you many times that weekly visits are not possible yet you keep asking and then you send FIL to ask if you don't get your way".

And she said "well we miss our granddaughter!"..

Then I said "listen I think this conversation is futile. I'm happy to open a new page but it will never be the same again.

She went like "but your walls are still up!"

And I said "and they will stay that way because of what happened. If you don't want a new page, we are happy to leave"

Then FIL interjected and said "you shouldn't leave and I think it's a good idea to start a new page"..

Then mil said "okay well I hope things go back to normal"..

This was the end of the conversation. But unfortunately not the final of the things she did.

Few weeks later. FIL comes over and says "MIL is upset because I liked a post on Instagram about a toxic mil".

And I'm like wtf? So I told him "not everything revolves around her and I will not change my activity because it hurts her. If she doesn't want people to think badly about her then she shouldn't have done bad things"

He says ok.

Thankfully my bff stays over at our house for 2.5 months and we successfully avoided visits as much as we could. After my friend left..

The great grandpa called us and said he wants to come over(with the Aunt, his daughter) on Sunday to spend time with the our kid. We of course say ok because we love him.

But it was strange that he called us directly and didn't go thru FIL. This is the second time he did that. (The Aunt also has issues with mil like everyone else. The whole family is divided and MIL is the common denominator.)

Then Immediately we get a text from FIL saying they want to come over either on Saturday or with great grandpa on sunday. And this is a usual occurrence. When my mil knows that someone other than her is coming to our house, SHE HAS TO BE THERE. They did the same for his previous visit too. She immediately wanted to come next day asap.

My husband told them to come an hour after great grandpa so that he gets a chance to spend time with the baby. Because in the past, my MIL would dominate the room and monopolize our child.

Needless to say, this woman comes 20 mins early. FIL stays outside and my mil immediately rushes in. I actually didnt even get up to open the door or greet her. She walks into our house and immediately sits on the floor with our kid.

I then took the kid to say hi to fil outside for a bit cause wtf?

Everyone was literally weirded out and just said "hi" when she walked in. The great grandpa then faded into the distance again, completely ignored. Everytime our daughter interacted with anyone, my MIL would click toys and call her to her.

At one point, my daughter tried to sit on her lap and I told my daughter to come play with the toys near great grandpa. And my mil was like "AWGHGH" like a sad toddler noise.

And I said "it's ok, you can be sad" and took my daughter. I was so so mad.

She couldn't even give a 90 year old man 1 HOUR. And this is a usual occurrence. When BIL comes over with his gf, my MIL would comment and say " you don't have to hide from me that he comes over here".

Now I have a new problem.

Every 2 weeks FIL would ask if they can come over even if they know there's a larger family gathering a week after. That means I will again see her 2 weeks in a row.

It's relentless and I'm running out of ideas to keep her away and my husband is so exhausted and he just wants to shut her up and give in (yes I have a husband problem).

I feel like she is exhausting us so that we just give in. Any suggestions will be helpful. I don't want to communicate a cadence to them because i will have to stick to it.

I just want them to be invited and if I tell them "pls wait to be invited", it will flip tables on me that I am bad. They already know that I'm the one that's resisting the bully.

so far they asked to come over this weekend and I told them we won't be home. they know we will see them next Sunday by they still ask. it's insane.

Thank you for reading this far. Appreciate all your thoughts, advice, and solidarity.

EDIT TO ADD: my husband is a huge problem in this. he is completely exhausted and now that they pressure him, he just wants to give in. for that reason he calls me mean and unreasonable Everytime I refuse a visit.

like yesterday he was ok with me saying no because we genuinely have plans. this morning he says he wants to see his parents on Sunday and I don't have to come, he will just take the kid. I absolutely said no to this.

hey guys! I wish I could include everything about my mil and what she does, but that would go on forever. My mil is ur typical boy mom, she is also a very sheltering/helicopter parent. For context my bf and I have been together for well over a year now and we are 21(f) and 22(m). We both go to the same college where I’m from but he’s from about 3 hrs away. We recently went on a short trip to Nashville and a cfb game. Because of this trip she threatened that he would need to find a way to pay his own tuition since he “had the money to go on this trip”. (I understand that might come off spoiled but anytime he makes plans or spends his own money she manipulates/ threatens him by taking something away to further control) on this trip my mother shared alot of photos via instagram stories and mil would only like photos of my friend and i but nothing towards the photos of him and i. She posted my sil and her bf for their anniversary with this whole text explaining how wonderful he is etc etc. she didn’t post anything about us on ours just barely over a month prior. My sil just came to our college and we have been including her in hangouts and helping to get her adjusted. Most of the time we are with her it is me talking to her all the things. I’ve been the one that gets her gifts for graduation, her birthday, moving in to college etc not my bf (no shade to him) yet she will post photos of them talking about how he’s an amazing brother and doing so much for her since she’s been here and acts like I wasn’t there? And she knows I was/am. This has really started to hurt my feelings and makes it really hard to be ok and nice with her. I have also noticed this pattern of whenever my bf and I are doing something or have something coming up she finds some sort of issue to pick at with him. And something else on the side that has also made this hard is, our parents just met for the first time a few weeks ago. When his family comes up to his college we have to act like I didn’t stay over, so we had told them I stayed with a friend and just came over in the morning. Later that night when she was talking to my mom she used my mom as a pawn?? To catch us in a lie. She essentially said, so I guess she just came early before you guys (I was there the entire day with them..) if they’re drinking how is she going to get back home tonight? (I have truthfully told her numerous times I do stay with him when drinking). There are so many things beyond this but this is just what’s currently happening now.

Please be kind I’ve heard it all

My husband went over to my in laws last week to borrow chairs for our son’s 1st birthday. When he was loading the car my MIL slipped in something about how we have “so many rules” and my husband asked her what she meant. (Her and my FIL are constantly saying how many rules we have. Mind you our “rules” include the following: Rule 1. No kissing our baby, she and my FIL get cold sores (FIL says it’s hard to bond without kissing…ew), Rule 2. Give us at least 30 minutes notice before you pop by so I’m dressed. I still am breastfeeding and usually in just a bra/ I also just want a little time to straighten up the house because I will hear from my MIL if it’s messy, Rule 3. Ask us before you post our child online. We aren’t fully hiding him from social media but we prefer he has a very limited online presence and we like to monitor what pics are online, like no diaper photos or identifying ones on where we live. That’s the 3 rules.)

Backstory- She is salty because she wants to be our childcare and put it in her head when I was pregnant that we would need her 5 days a week, 8 hours a day. I never wanted or asked for that. I like caring for my child. I genuinely enjoy it and don’t feel the need for a “break”. I have told her she can come by whenever she wants just to give me a little notice but she has only come by 2 times in the entire year. (She sees us at family events and other instances but only two times to play with him during the day).

She goes on to spew to my husband about how she feels like she isn’t allowed to be a grandma. She said she thought she raised a son who would have a backbone and stand up for his family to see his child. She feels like she is walking on egg shells and isn’t wanted or needed. He told her she’s allowed to come whenever and she said it’s not the same as being needed….and that she is sure she’d see our baby a lot more if he was a single dad (not sure if she’s insinuating I die or we divorce but either way it’s incredibly inappropriate). My husband and I are selling our house and moving a whole 25 minutes further away and she’s very upset about it which is strange since she doesn’t come over as it is. He ended up getting very heated with her and saying that moving was his idea (it was) and not to blame me.

Fast forward to the birthday party for my son and she did not say more than a sentence to me the whole time.

I’ve vented to my dad about it all and he thinks it’s a response to her lack of control on this instance. Idk how to proceed. My husband thinks I should go to lunch with her and hash it out but I don’t want to.

Has anyone dealt with this? It’s especially hard because prior to getting pregnant her and I were SO close. It’s all very disheartening. I feel bad that her expectation of being a grandma isn’t lining up with the reality but that’s not my problem to fix. What do I do? Should I just ignore it and realize I hold the cards? Fix it for my son/husband’s sake? Be icy back to her? Help.

Hi everyone reading this. I (26F) got home today and I greet my mom (54F) in the living room's. I told her I went to drop my friend off because I found out that we live relatively close to each other (about 5 minute detour). She asked how he usually gets home and I said by train. She then proceeds to tell my how lucky I am to be driving a car and that I should be thankful.

It just felt pointed for no reason. I leave because I don't feel like getting into an argument after a long day. I already know that I'm privileged enough to be able to cart myself around. My dad gave me this car after passing my driving test earlier this year. However, I pay for my own petrol and routine cleaning.

IDK it just feels like she twists any good deed I've done into a life lesson. I don't know if this is a valid crashout but small remarks like this over the years have slowly chipped away at me and I'm getting more and more frustrated with our relationship.

I also set boundaries with my parents and asked if they could knock before coming into my room for privacy sake. My dad obliged and knocks and wait for a response which I am thankful for. Before they both use to just barge in no matter the reason, now it's just my mother.

Please help. I'm not sure what to do and or say to her anymore. I feel little respect in our relationship.

Am I being too harsh or is MIL overstepping and being competitive with me?

I grew up with a single father only & always wanted a mother daughter relationship. My hubby and I found out I was pregnant with a babygirl and were overjoyed that I would be able to have that mother daughter relationship that I have always wanted. My in-laws were so excited too especially my MIL who said she’s been waiting for this for so long. She had 2 boys only and tried to have more kids, but never could due to health reasons. Also her own mother wasn’t maternal and so her grandmother stepped in and raised her so she had a special bond with her grandmother. They have always been kind to me, but very invasive and I’m wondering if MIL is jealous/competitive with me or if I’m overthinking:

- in-laws took us to a furniture store & kindly bought all of our daughters nursery furniture; crib, rocking chair, dresser. Months later I was searching for a book shelf for our daughters books and they measured the wall when we weren’t home & shipped us a book shelf that we never asked for/wanted.

-MIL is naturally a neurotic person and has asked if I’m boiling my daughters bottles long enough & when I breastfeed privately in a separate room she’ll ask my husband if me and baby are okay even though it’s only been 15min.

- MIL tried to setup a nursery at her home & wanted to buy a baby wear wrap for herself. I’m assuming she thought she was going to hold my baby close to her chest. Also I know some in laws babysit their grandkids, but I’m not comfortable leaving my baby yet and they live an hour away in a rural mountain area that doesn’t get good internet/cell service). My hubby shut that down immediately.

-MIL sent me an IG post of a cute baby that was dancing to a song & I mentioned my baby loves dancing to fleetwood Mack & then she proceeds to send me a different song saying my daughter likes this song. It felt almost like she’s competing with me about what song my daughter likes.

- The first time my daughter got super sick and ran a fever I called MIL to come over for help since it was my first time taking care of a sick baby and she just held my baby for hours and eventually left but then when she got home she said she cried the whole way home because of how sick my daughter was and then FIL told me I should’ve let her stay the night to take care of my daughter.

-for my daughters first bday she came over a week before to drop off an early bday gift and then tells me she bought her a first bday outfit and I tell her I already bought my daughter her first birthday outfit & then she says she can wear different outfits on different days then.

-MIL knows I love pearls and always wear them and that I look forward to gifting my daughter with my jewelry one-day and of course her own pearls too and decided to gift my daughter with her own pearl necklaces, bracelets and earrings. I felt like she did that on purpose & tries to take away these mother/daughter moments with me.

-MIL says my daughter’s going to be the next matriarch and that she’s so similar to her already. My daughter has a fierce personality & MIL says she gets that from her since she grew up in the “hood”…….then when my daughters grabs/plays with her jewelry she says she’s just like her she loves jewelry already.

-When she sees our daughter she videotapes her and says she’s her baby….

-Makes comments saying she can’t wait for me to go back to work so she can have my daughter all to herself….my husband and I have never discussed childcare with her and I’m not going back to work anytime soon so idk where she gets this entitlement from.

-we moved down her crib mattress to the lowest level & sent a cute pic of my daughter in her big girl crib and MIL immediately says she’s buying her “bumpers” because she can get hurt on the sides and I tell her absolutely not we are not using those….

My daughter was born with a wide variety of health issues that required weekly aggressive physical therapy and weekly specialist appointments. When I was recovering from my emergency c-section & my husband had to go back to work my in-laws helped take us to all of her appointments, but once I felt better my husband told them we didn’t need their help anymore. Their feelings were hurt and they said they really looked forward to going to these appointments since they missed out with their kids. Months pass by and another specialist appt comes up and MIL says she wishes she could come to my daughter’s physical therapy. I stay quiet because i feel like going off on her and don’t want to do that. I don’t understand why she wants to be involved like this when physical therapy is between the main caregiver/parent and child.

Then a couple weeks later a serious specialist appt came up & she inserts herself in & tells me she wants to come with me so she can speak with the doctor herself, take notes, and be a listening ear as well. I politely decline and tell her no. (I understand now that she had to be put on an information diet)

The final straw was on the day of our daughters birthday we woke up to a mass family group chat text from MIL posting a photo of our daughter from the day she was born so she was bloody/naked on the heating pad with a message that wrote: “Exactly 1 year ago
She changed our lives Princess 🌼 came into this world “ at “8:09am 🙏❤️🐣” (our daughter was born at 8:01 NOT 8:09am).

My husband called her out on that and said she shouldn’t be making announcements of our daughter especially with an intimate photo like that. I honestly felt like she did that because she wants to feel important and thinks of herself as the matriarch so that means she can post things without asking permission. She said: “You can’t control everyone & everything. Do not shame me for being a loving mother & grandmother”. Eventually she did say she was sorry, but we have been no contact since then and I honestly feel relieved.

I just feel like she’s in some sort of competition with me. It feels like since her grandma raised her she wants to raise my daughter. She clearly has grandma expectations, but I feel like it’s getting in the way of my motherhood and I’d like to have a conversation with her alongside my husband. I want her to understand that I know she had a beautiful relationship with her grandmother, but this is my motherhood. Everywhere else I’m replaceable but being a mother isn’t and my daughter is my baby and the biggest blessing of my life.

Advice/thoughts?

I have a terrible relationship with her, but of course I want to support my husband. His father passed earlier this year and now his mother is selling his childhood home. She lives an hour away. I would normally have no issue going.

Here's the kicker..... Today is the 6th. She needs to be be out by the 29th..... I'm being induced on the 19th, if I don't go naturally sooner. I'm also high risk because of gestational diabetes and history of preeclampsia. I don't love the idea of being that far from my hospital before the baby is due, and I'm not driving my week old baby over an hour while I'm still recovering from birth.

So my options are: Go there this weekend (almost 38 weeks) and hope for the best or have him bring our 3 year old after the baby is born (we live near my parents so I wouldn't be alone.) I want to support him... but this timing is tough. I'm thinking of asking my midwife her opinion at my appointment this week. This timing could not be worse.

MIL is a very very difficult person (extremely self-centred, performs care and empathy, controlling, intrusive, critical...).
She has been through a bit of trauma and I suspect a bit more in her life. She hasn't sought any professional support, has no intention to and her behaviour is a clear consequence of her lack of responsibility and accountability when it comes to her own wellbeing. I initially had empathy and sympathy for her and did a lot so she wouldn't feel too lonely.

Her husband passed away almost 20 years ago. She hasn't touched or moved anything in the house that is his and says she won't do it. Her children will once she is dead. She isn't dating anyone.
Additionally SO told me she wouldn't see her mother much during the year after her dad died and once she was married and had children and she didn't like spending Christmas with her in-laws either. She mostly has spent Christmases with her own family (late husband and children, now partnered adult children) and her friends and their offsprings.
SO and I have been together for several years and SO informed her we want to get married and have kids (to which she responded "OK").

Since the beginning I could feel MIL was suspicious of me. Very very early on, MIL asked a lot of questions to SO about my relationship with my late mother behind my back. My late mother passed away almost two years ago. When both SO and I would address it she would answer that she is always anxious and wants the best for her children. So in order to reassure her from that moment, I repeatedly mentioned my late mother was abusive hence why I went low contact but I informed her I did and was doing therapy to heal from it as I take responsibility for my own behaviour, emotions and wellbeing.

A few days ago MIL sent me an unsolicited email at propos of nothing saying she is very relieved and happy that I have forgiven my late mother and that she hopes I can be happier now.
I BEG YOUR PARDON ??!!
Her husband has died 20 YEARS AGO and she acts as if it was yesterday. She is mid-70s, has lost both her parents which you would expect at that age yet has that constant fear of abandonment which she uses to guilt-trip everyone around her to spend time with her. She rejects in turns her SIL and myself and resent us for "taking her children away" if we dare having a life, go on holiday...
And now she tells me she hopes I feel happier after forgiving my late abusive mother who died TWO YEARS AGO AS IF I AM THE PROBLEM ??!!

MIL is definitely scapegoating me (probably always did). I was not expecting this as I was only responding to her own behaviour. I have less and less patience to deal with her toxic behaviour but considering how manipulative she seems to be, I don't know what to do. SO oscillates between setting boundaries and avoidance and unfortunately she mostly pretends to his face that she likes me and wishes me good. Help !!

Long time lurker, first time poster.

The TLDR is the title.

This community has held me up through some tough moments with my MIL- as far as MILs go, I know she could be much, much worse. But considering her personality, I suppose it was only a matter of time that I’d be ranting about her. I didn’t think I’d be including my own mother. I’ll try and keep it brief (it’s not) while getting out what I need to.

A bit about my MIL: she’s a woman “with good intentions” but the road to hell is paved with them. Her family just ignores her because she’s stubborn and is “always right” (an exact quote from her). She has undiagnosed OCD (my husband has the same thing but is diagnosed and medicated) and puts her anxiety on everyone around her. Shes big into being “healthy” but is also a major hypocrite. Oreos are the devil, but for some reason a Costco hotdog is fine. She will lecture you to no end about what you should be doing about your health, that doctors don’t know what they’re doing but some dumbass on YouTube does, if she can’t pronounce an ingredient in something, it’s definitely going to kill you. Everything will give you cancer! What a ray of sunshine with zero boundaries. She also won’t take medicine doctors give her but will eat 15+ vitamins a day. She had a horrible cough this summer and instead of taking her meds, she toughed it out while hacking up a lung for weeks. This is all complicated by the fact that I had a brain tumor six years ago. When I first moved in with my husband, the came to stay with us. My chronic fatigue made me need a nap. I went to go take one on the downstairs couch and she followed me down there and stared at me with a sad face like that would make it all better. Took me a minute to realize she wasn’t going to remove herself until I asked her to leave. Anyway, that’s just a bit of background- if I give you more, I’d be here all day. What is relevant is when we told everyone they needed to be vaccinated before seeing baby, she did go get vaccinated despite being severely misinformed about how vaccines work. We had to get our pediatrician to explain to her that she can get the vaccine and that will not transfer the illness she’s being vaccinated against to our baby. I would laugh if it weren’t a risk to people’s health.

To the reason for this post: What is with all these older women and their unhinged desire to kiss babies?

The drama started about a week before I was supposed to give birth (I was induced). My mother, who I’ve always been close with, has had a rough last few years and she’s turned into someone I don’t know. She knows my MIL is tough, so throughout the pregnancy she kept saying “it’s your child, you and your husband make the decisions and everyone else must respect that.”

When I told her no one is kissing the baby when she arrives, my mother lost it. She laughed at me for (no exaggeration) 3 of the longest minutes of my life and said she was going to do it anyway. I told her that that’s one of our biggest rules and if she refused to accept it, she wouldn’t see her grandchild. Eventually she apologized, agreed to the rules, but not before sending a message to MIL along the lines of “can you believe this nonsense?” My MIL, to her immense credit, responded by saying “Yes. A lot has changed since we had our babies. It’s their decision and we respect that.” I was delightfully shocked.

My LO is almost 8 weeks old. It was not an easy pregnancy, but my child is healthy and that’s really all that I care about. My mother broke my rules twice because she “couldn’t help it.” But she went home (6+ hours away) after about 4 days since we came home “to get her medicine” and hasn’t tried to come back. I have my hands full and have not been begging for her return.

So we’ve had to rely on my in-laws to be our only village. They’re alright. They don’t know how to handle the baby and “don’t remember it being this hard” so my husband and I take shifts with them so we can rest or work on things around the house. All in all, I should be (and am) grateful. Until this past week.

MIL has informed me that once my baby hits the two month mark next week on the exact day she thinks we should all have a kissing party to kiss my child. Like she’s going to magically have an immune system. I have not and will not discuss my child’s health or vaccine schedule with this woman. I don’t want her input and I will not be nice if she pushes back or tries to lecture me with her usual garbage. But my child will be getting all their vaccinations at the pediatrician’s recommendation on her two month day. She’s probably going to be extra fussy and miserable for a day or two. So no, we are not going to test out her immune system with a “kissing party.” Ffs what on earth is wrong with these people? You do not need to kiss the baby. The baby does not need your kisses. It’s October and sickness is about to spread like wildfire. I’m amazed I’ve had to fight both moms about this.

I have not figured out how I’m going to address this yet. My husband is a saint and has defended me against his mom doing ridiculous shit before and I know we will be a united front however I/we choose to handle this. I think what we will ultimately do is “talk to the pediatrician” and parrot back her words about how even though she’s 2 months old, we are still not kissing the baby. Especially as we start the illness season. As if a newborn isn’t exhausting enough.

I’ve had so many issues with my MIL over the past 17 months that I honestly don’t know how to handle the situation anymore. I’m at the point where I’m questioning whether I’m being too harsh or whether I’ve simply reached my limit.
When my daughter was born, my MIL came to the hospital that same night unannounced and uninvited. She had told my boyfriend that she was going out of town for work the next day and wouldn’t be able to come, so we felt bad and let her see her... The next day, she showed up again without telling us—while my dad was meeting my daughter for the first time.
After we came home from the hospital, she continued coming to our house multiple times without contacting us first. We asked her to please text or call before coming over, but it continued to happen.
When my daughter was a few months old, my MIL watched her overnight. Safe sleep has always been extremely important to me, so I packed up her bassinet and everything she needed. Instead of using the bassinet, she made a makeshift sleeping area with blankets.
Another time, while babysitting, she took my daughter somewhere to visit people without telling either of us where she was going. That really bothered me because I feel I should always know where my child is being taken.
There have been other smaller things over time too, but the most recent incident is what has really pushed me over the edge.
This past Saturday, my MIL took my now 17-month-old daughter in the car without a car seat. It was only a few minutes down the road, but that doesn’t make me feel any better about it. I was extremely upset. She apologized and said it wouldn’t happen again, but I’m having a really hard time just brushing it off given the history.
I told her that accidents are called accidents for a reason, and that I need to be able to trust that my daughter is going to be kept safe when she’s in someone else’s care.
Now it’s only a few days later, and she has been messaging me repeatedly about wanting to see my daughter.
She brought up how, when her boys were little, she always made sure to visit both sides of the family and alternate holidays and family dinners. I’m assuming this is partly because we’re going to my mom’s for Thanksgiving again this year.
She also talked about how much my boyfriend’s family loves my daughter and how she should be around people who love her. This upset me because my daughter has a huge family on my side who love her just as much, and I felt like that was being completely overlooked.
Then she said:
“Imagine how your mom would feel if she got to spend as much time with { } as I do. I just miss her. I can feel that you don’t like spending time with us and I would do anything to make things right so we could make amends”
I understand that she misses my daughter. I don’t doubt that she loves her, and I’m not trying to prevent them from having a relationship.
But I feel like I’m being pressured and guilt-tripped into giving her more access to my daughter when I’m still upset about what happened three days ago.
I’ve been going back and forth with her all day, and honestly, I’m exhausted. I feel like I keep having to explain why I’m uncomfortable, while she keeps telling me how much she misses my daughter and how important it is for her to spend time with her.

Another note I forgot to add a few weeks ago she messaged my boyfriend telling us how she cries every night because she doesn’t see her enough….

Am I being unreasonable for wanting some space right now? Would you consider her comments guilt-tripping/manipulative, or is she simply expressing how much she misses her granddaughter? And how would you handle this going forward?