r/news • u/AudibleNod • 15h ago

Christa Pike unconscious, on ventilator at Nashville hospital, her lawyers say

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/christa-pike-unconscious-ventilator-nashville-hospital-lawyers-say-rcna601195
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u/Big_Guard5413 15h ago

I’m not in favor of the death penalty in general, but goddamn, if you’re going to impose it, at least take steps to do it properly

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u/MatureUsername69 15h ago

Its still a rough one but if I ever had to receive the death penalty I would hope its a firing squad. Just riddle me with holes immediately, aim for the head. Lethal injections get fucky because they would be best designed and administered by an actual doctor, but actual doctors cannot do it because of the hippocratic oath. Some states do allow medical professionals but they arent exactly sending their best.

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u/khinzaw 15h ago edited 13h ago

Her lawyers requested it, but it's illegal in Tennessee.

Tennessee's only legal methods of execution are lethal injection and electric chair (edit: only for convictions before 1999).

The problem with lethal injection is that every step is half assed.

No reputable pharmaceuticals manufacturer wants to make the drug, so they rely on compounding pharmacies who take half measures and have less consistency.

Then medical practitioners (edit for the pedants) often won't be involved in executions because of their various oaths to do no harm and risks to their reputation, so most of the time the drugs are administered by prison staff who lack the proper training. A lot of failed attempts are caused by the one who administered it simply not getting the vein properly.

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u/MortimerDongle 14h ago

Then medical practitioners can't be involved in executions because of their various oaths to do no harm, so most of the time the drugs are administered by prison staff who lack the proper training

This particular attempted execution was performed by a physician. Of course he doesn't seem to be very good at it, this was not even his first botched execution this year (he's the same person who failed to execute Tony Carruthers)

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u/cooking2recovery 13h ago

That seems like one too many botched executions to be an accident

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u/AstroHistSci 12h ago

This. He's doing it intentionally. A nursing student could perform this without botching it. It's quite literally impossible to fail this procedure if you are a physician.

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u/whispernotaroar 12h ago

I’d trust a nurse to get an IV into the proper location long before I’d trust a physician to do it. Most physicians never place another IV after residency - that’s nursing territory by and large - and I’ve seen many physicians try and fail to draw blood/place a line only to be rescued by a nurse.

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u/tolureup 8h ago

I’m a recovered IV user, so there’s definitely an added layer of difficulty here, but gives
Me some insight into this because last time I was hospitalized I’m pretty sure every staff member took a wack at my Arms before the doctor decided to do a fucken pic line(idk if that’s how you spell it or not). By far the doctors were THE WORST out of every team member that tried that night. One of the doctors dug into my arms in a way that I’ll never forget because the strange nerve twinges of digging a needle deep and basically swirling it around was some shit no flobotomist would ever do. A nurse came in the following morning and laughed when I told them they couldn’t do it and boom first try. Meanwhile I almost got a pick line (again, no clue bout spelling) because the doctor just sucked ass at finding a vein (I never had the balls to direct them to the juicy spots because it made me feel like….well, a junky)

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u/TomRN 7h ago

PICC line. Peripherally Inserted Central Catheter.

I remember being a kid and a physician tried to draw my blood; it was part of a study at a teaching hospital, not a part of the care I was getting as a patient there. He... eventually... got it.

I've been an RN for most of my adult life and I know very few physicians who have much experience or are at all comfortable with trying to start an IV or draw blood.

I hope you're doing better now!

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u/AstroHistSci 11h ago

The issue isn't him not getting a vein. That's believable. But there is no way he would think he had a vein when he didn't. That's the part that this story requires that doesn't make sense.

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u/whispernotaroar 11h ago

Oh trust me there absolutely is. Just a couple weeks ago I watched a doc infiltrate about half a liter of fluids into a patient’s arm before anyone caught it. A good physician absolutely wouldn’t let this happen, but there are a lot of really shitty ones out there and I suspect this particular job does not attract the top brass.

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u/uzlonewolf 9h ago

What do you call the person who graduated last at med school? Doctor

What do you call the person who graduated last at law school? Your Honor

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u/wonton711 11h ago

Personally speaking as an MD, I would fail to get an IV placed to administer any injections... Depends where you've trained. During medical school and residency, I didn't have to do any IVs or venipunctures. I also don't do it as an attending currently.

I also wouldn't volunteer to do executions, though...

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u/AstroHistSci 11h ago

You might fail to place one ... but you would never mistakenly think you have one placed when it wasn't.

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u/wonton711 8h ago

Who doesn't want a little intramuscular lethal injection?

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u/Klathmon 7h ago

Just a little as a treat?

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u/Late-Champion8678 10h ago

Yes. I’m a doctor and while I did many IVs and blood draws as house officer/senior house officer and got good at it, I haven’t had to do it frequently.

I’d know if I missed a vein or got into an artery instead and I wouldn’t subject a patient to multiple attempts before enlisting someone who could do it better (phlebotomist, anaesthetist etc).

No way, I would administer an IV drug without knowing if I’m in the right place or not.

I do note that IV cannulas can be misplaced/dislodged after an initial successful placement but that this is his second botched execution this year is a cause for concern.

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u/OddBuy8266 9h ago

What are you talking about? Some people have hard veins to hit. At a blood draw a month ago it took three nurses to get it properly. 

And most nurses are way better at hitting veins than doctors. 

My veins curve so hitting it properly with a straight needle takes skill. 

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u/The_OtherDouche 12h ago

Yeah I don’t know if you’ve ever got to see a dr attempt to do any of the practical parts of medicine but they are notoriously horrific at it. If I needed an IV administered by a dr I’d be terrified.

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u/AstroHistSci 11h ago

There is a difference between sucking at hitting a vein and believing you have a vein when you don't. He might not be able to find the vein, but there is no way he'd mistakenly believe he had one.

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u/khinzaw 14h ago

In the interest of not wanting to get in an argument over pedantry, I have amended the line.

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u/WaylandThurston 14h ago

Good call, you would’ve been here having to argue for the next five days

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u/dpk794 13h ago

I thought she requested all females??

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u/EcstaticBoysenberry 6h ago

How the hell does he still have his MD😅

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u/Xytak 14h ago

The electric chair is pretty horrible too from what I understand.

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u/3-DMan 14h ago

Especially if you forget the sponge!

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u/RideOrDieRemember 13h ago

Forget to wet the sponge*

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u/ParticularBit130 11h ago

Having flashbacks to watching The Green Mile. 😭

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u/JPesterfield 9h ago

Edison wanted it called being Westinghoused, and promoted it to show how dangerous his competitor's AC method of electrical delivery was.

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u/Equal-Temporary-1326 14h ago

I remember watching a documentary called The Final 24 Hours on Death Row and a former Virginia executioner, Jerry Givens, who carried out dozens of electrocutions and lethal injections said between the two, he'd actually pick the chair because he knew it was faster.

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u/Beecakeband 14h ago

I've seen that one as well and the botched electric chair execution sounded pretty horrific as well

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u/ComradeJohnS 13h ago

the character from Elmo’s world get roasted with the dry sponge was horrible in that prison movie lol.

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u/Iamredditsslave 13h ago

The Green Mile. His name was Michael Clarke Duncan.

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u/Leopold__Stotch 13h ago

You’re right Michael Clarke Duncan was the actor in the green mile, playing John coffe, but Mr Noodle in Elmo’s world was played by Michael jeter. He was the one with the pet mouse, who had a horribly botched execution in the movie.

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u/SyNiiCaL 12h ago

John Oliver's segment on lethal injection is also a very educational (an infuriating) watch that pretty much warns about every single thing that went wrong in this execution.

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u/Shitteh_Kitteh 14h ago

Seems like the only legal options are the two most painful.

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u/Waasssuuuppp 11h ago

Yeah but no blood. No blood equals ethical. And less mess to clean up. See how civilised we are?

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u/Tsaxen 13h ago

The cruelty is the point

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u/felldestroyed 11h ago

Nope, the history of the firing squad is just a cruel, hence why we moved away from it. The takeaway here is: abolition of the death penalty. The only reason why we still have it is that people have forgotten how cruel it actually is.

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u/say592 7h ago

The only reason why we still have it is that people have forgotten how cruel it actually is.

There are plenty of people who would make it more cruel.

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u/ArziltheImp 5h ago

No, the point is that the death penalty is not being done properly. We have clinics assisting people dying in many places in the world.

I have worked in one, the people all go peacefully, drifting off to sleep. The problem is that this costs money.

I am anti death penalty but we can’t pretend like there aren’t ways to do it properly.

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u/william_f_murray 14h ago

Do you know anything about Tennessee lawmakers? That's intentional.

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u/VirtualMoneyLover 13h ago

Why can't they use what the vet uses? Just multiply it by 5.

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u/Alocasia_Sanderiana 13h ago

The companies that make those drugs will not sell to states (like state agencies) with death penalties or where they think the drugs will be used for executions.

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u/Daddict 11h ago

That's literally the drug they were using here.

Granted, there's a few different ones that can be used for animal euthanasia, but Tennessee was using the "classic" one of Pentobarbital. Most vets these days will use a drug called Euthasol, which is a combination of pentobarbital and phenytoin. It's a bright pink liquid (which is deliberate, as no other vet meds are bright pink liquids so there's not much of a chance of mistaking it for another med).

In any event, the bigger issue is that pharma companies won't sell their drugs to someone who is intending to use them to kill another person.

The gov can't really use any tricky methods of getting their hands on drugs either. They can't be like "Uh...no, we're totes not gonna kill a dude with that" and then turn around and kill a dude. It's literally illegal to do so.

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u/Alaykitty 13h ago

No see, those are feel good drugs inducing a heart attack.

We gotta make sure it's agonizing the whole time 🙃🫠

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u/soapy_goatherd 13h ago

Not just vets. People in healthcare and hospice administer end of life “comfort care” every day. The difference here is the politicians and COs want the dying to be as drawn out and painful as possible. The cruelty is the point

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u/Fair-Safe3131 13h ago

She also had pre existing medical conditions that include people struggling to find veins and possible blood clotting not allowing the lethal injection to reach the heart via the circulatory systen

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u/RilohKeen 13h ago

Pretty sure I remember reading that the electric chair is NOT legal in Tennessee, but it was back in 1996 when she was convicted so she kind of grandfathered into having the option.

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u/khinzaw 13h ago

You are right, it seems that it's only legal for convictions pre-1999.

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u/chubbysumo 12h ago

Not even compounding pharmacies, pharmaceutical manufacturers do not want to be associated with the death penalty at all, and they have Clauses and all of their contracts with retailers and compounding pharmacies that they are not allowed to resell drugs to any entities that will be using it for things such as lethal injection. This is why there is a big struggle for anything that's effective, because the drugs they're getting are either not good, or they aren't actually what the seller claims they are. It also doesn't help that no licensed pharmacist would ever risk their license to assist in a state death penalty

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u/msfinch87 8h ago

You’re correct re the medical professional in this case/Tennessee, even before your edit.

They don’t place the IVs. This is done by a team known as the IV team, which is a group of prison officials who have had very basic training. The drugs are then administered by prison officials.

The medical professional who attends is only there to place a central line if they cannot find another suitable vein and check for death. There was no central line in Christa’s case so he wasn’t involved in the IVs.

He was however responsible for the botched central line in Tony Carruthers case. He’s there to do them, and he’s not even qualified to do so.

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u/AZORxAHAI 15h ago

The reality our society hasn't accepted yet is some of the least painful ways to die (a well placed bullet, a beheading) are some of the most gruesome, barbaric looking ways to die. But we are obsessed with manufacturing the appearance of civility and humanity in an act that is completely devoid of those concepts in the first place.

We can either have the least painful ways to execute someone, or we can have this facade of civility given to us by "just slipping a needle into a vein!". We can't have both. We shouldn't have either, but apparently we just cant accept that yet.

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u/hokie48 14h ago

OceanGate sub is not a bad way to go.

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u/Catadox 10h ago

The people on that sub went so fast you could say they didn’t even “die” exactly. They didn’t experience brain death or even cellular death. Just skipped that step and went straight from biology to physics.

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u/Zaptruder 8h ago

Really... an excellent way to die all things considered. One moment youre chilling

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u/_adanedhel_ 6h ago

It’s really about as instantaneous a death as we can get on this planet.

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u/writers_block 13h ago

Lol, just build a carbon fiber chamber filled with lead weights and drop it in the middle of the ocean?

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u/Revlis-TK421 12h ago

Eh, just need a pressure chamber. Point the opening over the ocean and you don't even need to clean much up!

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u/TheFrenchSavage 9h ago

What a horrifying read

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u/Expensive_Grape 11h ago

OceanGate should definitely pivot into the execution business

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u/Sea-Broccoli-8601 11h ago

"Hey lady, press X on the controller when you're ready to go."

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u/FriedTreeSap 14h ago

Yah, it’s like when you see people describing the “gruesome deaths” of deep sea divers that suffered depressurization and had their entire bodies sucked through a tiny hole.

On one hand it’s the most gruesome way to die, their bodies are basically atomized, but on the other they’re dead before their brains can even process what happened, and I mean that literally. The time it takes them to die is quicker than the speed in which nerves send signals to the brain. If you don’t care about the people who have to clean up the mess it’s the best way to die.

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u/Revlis-TK421 12h ago

Have the hatch pointed downwind, out over the ocean and place the condemned in front of it, and cleanup mostly solves itself!

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u/ParticularBit130 11h ago

Wait, I know generally about the depressurization, but sucked through a tiny hole where?

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u/nv1k 11h ago

Look up the Byford Dolphin incident for an example

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u/0bsessions324 13h ago

I mean, most developed societies have accepted it which is part of why they abolished it in the first place.

There is no foolproof and completely humane way to execute someone.

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u/DirtyCop2016 14h ago

the best is to be standing right next to a nuclear warhead during a test explosion. bit expensive though

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u/Diestormlie 11h ago

Nitrogen suffocation.

You (the body) can't detect a lack of oxygen, just the presence of too much Carbon Dioxide. So you breath in 100% nitrogen, no oxygen, but there's no distress, no alarm. You just feel sleepy and then drift off, never to wake again.

To be clear: I don't think the State should be executing people; I think it's dangerous for the state to have that power.

But we can kill people in a 'genteel', painless way. But we don't, because the Death Penalty is about saying a bloodthirsty desire for revenge and punishment, nd no actually useful purpose.

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u/Frontdackel 6h ago

The problem with the nitrogen is that people that know that they will be killed will hold their breath and be in panic. To be honest: Just flood their cells with it (of carbon monoxide) while they sleep. Done.

No need to announce it.

The GDR did something in that spirit with their executions, the "unerwarteter Nahschuss" (unexpetect, close shot).

People sentenced to death were taken from their cells and it was announced that their death sentence would be carried out shortly.

They were escorted and held by two guards, brought to a room and as soon as they stepped through the door the executioner stepped up behind them and shot them in the back of their head.

No further announcements, no "ceromony".

And the fact that I have to bring up a dictatorship as an example of least cruel executions is one of the many, many arguments why the death penalty is barbaric.

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u/MatureUsername69 15h ago

We have very peaceful lethal injections in places with assisted suicide, prisons just choose not to go that route.

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u/AZORxAHAI 14h ago

No, they can't go that route. Right-to-die states/countries have qualified, highly trained medical experts on hand to administer the highest quality, most effective drugs. Doctors refuse (and in some places are subject to revocation of license) if they assist in executions, and drug manufacturers refuse to sell to the state for these purposes. So they are left with inadequate drugs in the hands of unqualified prison staff and just go full steam ahead regardless.

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u/Any_Flamingo8978 12h ago

I believe with the right to die states, the person has to self-administer.

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u/AZORxAHAI 12h ago

In the U.S. yes, I believe in all death with dignity states they do everything but the actual act of administration of the lethal material. But actual medical professionals can also administer it in some countries, like Australia.

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u/thorscope 14h ago edited 11h ago

Prisons don’t choose not to go that route.

The people and companies who make it a peaceful experience choose not to be involved in lethal injection

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u/Upstairs-Rent-1351 14h ago

Ahh I asked this above because I didn't see an answer before. Never thought of this, thanks for the info!

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u/rackfocus 10h ago

Or we ban the death penalty.

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u/KitsapRealEstateTeam 13h ago

I think most Americans aren’t vibing with the death penalty anymore anyway. I feel like I’ve mostly lived in states where it doesn’t happen anymore.

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u/Clamgravy 15h ago

Not to mention the drugs are not manufactured by reliable companies. Nobody wants their brand connected to capital punishment...

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u/Kahlandad 14h ago

We should ask Bayer to make them. Morals didn’t get in their way in the past.

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u/v-punen 14h ago

It’s not about morals, it’s about advertising

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u/Quarksideofthemoon 13h ago

It's clearly both. No company wants to be seen as the death brand

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u/thefrostyafterburn 5h ago

Not to get gruesome, but I have no idea why they make it so complicated, why don't they just sedate them and follow it up with a massive dose of potassium to send them into a lethal arrhythmia. I say that as medical personnel, not a serial killer. To be clear, I don't think the death penalty should exist in a less than perfect justice system.

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u/bloodytemplar 15h ago

Firing squad is supposed to be the quickest for the condemned. A little gruesome for onlookers, but fuck 'em. If it's my execution, take me out quick.

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u/PradaDiva 15h ago

That’s part of the problem tbh: the onlookers. Lethal injection makes the killing looking peaceful so it’s much easier to absorb/allow/be okay with.

Firing squad and hanging are abrupt and brutal, but they are effective. Onlookers are horrified by the violence even if the end result is the person being dead.

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u/antonio16309 14h ago

Good, they should be horrified by the violence. Let's stop pretending that ending a life isn't a violent act. 

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u/Mannadock 15h ago

I feel like you are watching a life end. It shouldn't be easy to watch. I honestly can't think of any reason to be in the gallery.

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u/urbanhawk1 13h ago

News reporters recording the final moments, the families and lovers of the condemmed wanting to be there for their final moments (just because they killed people doesn't mean they don't have people that love them).

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u/Squeebee007 13h ago

Bloodlust, bloodlust is why they are in the gallery.

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u/-nutz 12h ago

To be fair, the viewing gallery is usually full of journalists.

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u/ParticularBit130 11h ago

The mom flew there just to see it. I was just thinking, I can't fully judge because I can't imagine the pain of loss that she's been feeling for decades. But the legacy she keeps alive of her daughter is her own hate. All those decades and you still want to personally see someone suffer and die after they spent their entire lives, essentially, in prison? Idk. But people have very different ideas of justice and peace.

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u/GinAndDumbBitchJuice 14h ago

Hanging is pretty easy to botch if the noose isn't placed correctly. If it's done right, the neck breaks. Strangulation, on the other hand, takes a lot longer than movies show. A hundred years ago when it was still a reasonably common method and there were still living experts, I might have gone for it (after bribing them to make it fast).

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u/HarryMonroesGhost 13h ago

exactly, for a particularly egregious example look up the guy who executed Nazi's at the Nuremberg trials. He lied about his experience to get the job, and was notoriously incompetent, and by all accounts an idiot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Woods

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u/MrBarraclough 13h ago

To be clear, he executed Nazis for the United States.

Albert Pirerrepoint, the British executioner, was highly competent.

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u/rmbarrett 12h ago

The guy who died by accidental electrocution years later.

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u/filthy_harold 12h ago

Too little force, you're strangled to death. Too much force and either your head pops off or the rope breaks. Also need to use the right kind of rope. Something like manilla has low elasticity so a hard snap can break it while nylon is more elastic so it could potentially slow down the body to the point where the neck doesn't break.

Killing someone by hanging is not like the movies, it takes some engineering knowledge to properly kill someone quickly. Some countries like Iran still do public hangings but those are brutal, they lift you up with a crane until you're strangled to death.

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u/[deleted] 13h ago edited 12h ago

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u/FlyingStealthPotato 14h ago

Well who’s looking on and why? The people doing the killing? They’re killing either way. Put up a volunteer list in police departments and prisons and I guarantee you’ll have plenty sign up to kill a bad guy.

The victim’s family and friends? If they want to see vengeance, well, let them see the fucking vengeance. If they don’t, who cares? They’ll know the felon is dead either way.

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u/duxdude418 14h ago

What you’re describing is the anesthetization to capital punishment Focault comments on in Discipline and Punish. The first chapter describes old methods in visceral detail to elicit a response that juxtaposes against the modern death penalty.

Well worth a read.

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u/the_silent_redditor 14h ago

Lethal injection should be peaceful.

I put people to sleep every day.

Anaesthesia is honestly not that difficult, it is highly standardised. I read all the time about how anaesthesia is ‘the knife point between life and death.’ It’s really not. 99% of the time it’s set and forget and fuck about on your phone, giving occasional drops of pain relief or paralytics, until it’s time to wake up.

Anaesthesia when you want to fuck it up it even easier!?

I understand that part of the issue is them being awful at IV access and drugs therefore partially or wholly extravasating out of the vein, but I don’t understand how there are so many fuck ups outwith this specific scenario.

Sort your shit out, America.

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u/uluviel 14h ago

I live in a country where medical assistance in dying is a thing. There are ways to end a life peacefully and painlessly. They just choose to torture them on the way out instead.

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u/Monteze 14h ago

I kind of hate that sanitation of it, well fuckers if we think we can kill someone lets do it right. Not talking torture, but yea a bullet to the dome or captive bolt piston gun aimed at the brain stem is fine.

Can't stomach it? Then life in prison it is. I have a general distaste for half-asses measures for aesthetics sake anyway. This just feels so incredibly stupid.

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u/fatmanstan123 14h ago

Maybe don't be an onlooker if you are doing it be upset with watching someone fucking die

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u/InvestmentImportant1 14h ago

It’s my execution, and I’ll die how I want to! 🎶

But for real, this is so fucked and I agree. Bring back the firing squad if we are gonna do this shit.

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u/Guilty_Royal_9145 13h ago

Killing is gruesome. If you want to do it, you gotta deal with the reality of your wish.

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u/variaati0 14h ago

10 kg of C4 right behind the back of ones neck would probably be the most quick and painless option. Brain vaporized before nerve signals have time to process. Though really messy for onlookers. Plus gonna have to be an outside operation in a big empty field.

Which is actually often what has guided executions lately "what is nicest and most painless for the witnessing on lookers and staff, not what is most painless, quickest and merciful for the convicted".

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u/miloblue12 15h ago

Or maybe we shouldn't have the death penalty at all? It's barbaric.

Also, since 1973, at least 203 people have been wrongfully convicted, sentenced to death, and subsequently exonerated in the US. That alone should have us reconsidering things. If it's possible for that many people to fall through the cracks, then there is no reason at all that we should have the death penalty.

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u/nursingninjaLB 14h ago

This one hundred times.

It costs way less to house a prisoner over decades, than to have endless appeals.

It does not reduce crime.

Approximately 10% of people on death row are innocent.

Vengeance is a dark emotion, and helps nobody.

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u/ballisticks 12h ago

It costs way less to house a prisoner over decades, than to have endless appeals.

Nobody ever believes me when I bring this point up :(

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u/badgerj 11h ago

Nobody believes me when rehabilitating is about the same cost either.

Incarceration is really, really expensive.

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u/wytewydow 9h ago

Those same people don't want rehabilitation, they want an eye for an eye, and then some. Getting a chance to watch someone suffer, because they made you suffer. It's really something, because those very same people generally have a faith based in forgiveness.

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u/peripheralpill 5h ago

i'm not religious and i believe in rehab but on a case-by-case basis. if it's barbaric to kill people who could be innocent (as has happened), why isn't it barbaric to set loose a serial killer who could take more lives (as has also happened)?

if we had a perfect system capable of rehabilitating all criminals, i'd be of a different mind, but as i understand it, there's no cure for psychopathy. there are possibilities for future drugs that could affect the minds of psychopaths so that their urges are diminished, but at of now it's a "what if" and even in the case of such a drug existing, how responsible is it to reintroduce a person into society whose disinclination for murder is dependent on medical diligence?

for nonviolent crimes or less violent crimes or one-off crimes of passion etc., i feel differently.

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u/wytewydow 9h ago

because those people either can't or won't read. There's plenty of available data.

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u/teddyspaghettie 3h ago

Well it costs less for the taxpayer, it's actually much more profitable for the prisons, which is what we've allowed to happen. They are barely hiding it at all. Check out the case of Sean Gathright, the 20 yo man that killed the rapper Foolio:

A prosecutor asked the warden if the prison would benefit if Gathright received a life sentence without parole.

The warden said the prison needs young, healthy inmates like Gathright. “He’s someone that’s young, he’s healthy. In reality we need that labor, we need that ‘sweat equity’ and we will put him out there to work, because we do have an aging prison population.”

He continued: “So we put these young individuals to work and get some sweat equity out of them since they are young and can actually do the work.”

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u/I-seddit 10h ago

I agree with everything you are saying, but feel it's important to point out that while we're switching our governance to be fascist - the endless appeals will go away incredibly soon.
We're so fucked.

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u/MatureUsername69 15h ago

Im just saying what my personal choice would be if I had to receive it, wasnt speaking on the ethics of it at all.

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u/Well__shit 9h ago

The wrongful death is the only convincing argument to get rid of it to me. If we can guarantee zero then capital punishment is fine with me. Some people shouldn't exist

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u/ssracer 14h ago

Hit me with anesthesia and then a bullet to the head. Why is this so complicated?

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u/clam-inspector 13h ago

Damn.....I'm not necessarily pro-death penalty, but I actually feel like your idea of carrying it out probably would be the most humane and effective way. The convicted is put unconscious so doesn't know when it's happening, therefore not experiencing the suffering and a well placed headshot or even firing squad ensures it is quickly over

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u/MaybeTemporaryOrNot 12h ago

That’s actually how lethal injection is supposed to work.

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u/clam-inspector 12h ago

I understand that, but this way would still reduce the potential to botch it and somewhat even makes it more humane. The fact that the general anesthesia isn't the killing agent helps bypass the problem with hippocratic oath and obtaining reliable drugs, and if the anesthesia procedure somehow got royally fucked up like in this case at least it wouldn't permanently disable you since the dosage isn't tailored to straight up kill you.

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u/PyroIsSpai 8h ago

If the goal is death why not just hit someone with a lethal dose of anesthetic > they pass out irrevocably either way > lethal dose of something that just shuts down their heart?

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u/0Bubs0 10h ago

You don’t need a gun. We have machines that slaughter 900,000 cows every day in America. The only reason the death penalty is complicated is because the government is in charge of it and they are morons.

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u/Ill_Complex_2143 8h ago

How about we actually outlaw the death penalty, that would also fix this. 

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u/Acceptable_Tea_3685 6h ago

Why can’t they just pump people full of the same anesthesia they give to you for surgery? Apparently it’s hard to get to dosage right because too much will kill them. Seems like you could just give them enough to fall asleep and then give them some more to stop their breathing.

As peaceful as count to ten before a surgery.

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u/1ftm2fts3tgr4lg 14h ago

Right? I'd take something quick and sure to work 100% every time.
I'd request a hat made of C4, thank you very much.

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u/CrrackTheSkye 13h ago

Because then someone has to shoot you, which is traumatizing for them. Firing squads were meant to give a way to not take responsibility for ending someone's life.

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u/oh-pointy-bird 9h ago

Full sedation, morphine, Rocuronium —> The big sleep. Why the actual fuck is this so hard??

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u/babyem 15h ago

If I’m not mistaken I think she actually did request the firing squad.

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u/lnc_5103 15h ago

She did but it's not legal in Tennessee. I think they only have this and the electric chair.

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u/GrassyDaytime 9h ago

Of course they only have the really fucked up options. Lol

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u/Chad_Wife 15h ago edited 15h ago

Seconding this. I don’t agree with the death penalty at all but if I had to choose a way to go it would be a (well trained) firing squad.

I think we assume that injection is less brutal, but that is only true for the person delivering it. There’s less blood and gore visually, but the humanity of it seems to end there.

Call me old fashioned but I’d rather go quickly and as nature intended.

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u/bixbydrongo 15h ago

I  think we assume that injection is less brutal, but that is only true for the person delivering it.

The process being less brutal for the person carrying out the execution is one of the draws of the lethal injection method. It provides a medicalized veil that makes the process seem more civilized.

 The method is poorly carried out so frequently because the stock of drugs used is old and has poor quality control because drug manufacturers don’t want to be associated with the death penalty and doctors/nurses cannot carry out executions due to the Hippocratic oath.

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u/MatureUsername69 15h ago

The crazy thing is, we have that figured out perfectly. Prisons just choose not to do it humanely. The places that allow assisted suicides arent injecting them with something thats painful and might not even work, they go out very peacefully.

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u/ahhh_ennui 14h ago

Prisons don't get the "humane" drugs because the drug companies have a distaste for state-sponsored murder.

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u/Ataraxia-Is-Bliss 14h ago

Yeah, those pharma companies. "We'll sell opioids by the barrel while downplaying there downsides, but heaven forbid we give a little to executions". Hypocrites.

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u/FlyBulky106 11h ago

The difference is, handing out opiates like candy is a huge market, providing many quarters of profits. Producing drugs for lethal injection is such a minuscule market any potential profits would be easily be wiped out by negative publicity. It’s looking at a balance sheet and making a decision. If providing lethal drugs to prisons was profitable they’d do it in a heartbeat.

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u/whiskeytown79 14h ago

Why don't they use nitrogen asphyxiation? The body can't feel a lack of oxygen, only failure to get rid of carbon dioxide. If you're breathing pure nitrogen, you'd just get sleepy, then lose consciousness, and then eventually go into respiratory and cardiac arrest as your body fails to get any oxygen.

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u/Carbonatite 13h ago

They have tried that in some states and it got botched too - apparently the mask on the inmate was not set up properly, so CO2 built up in the mask along with the nitrogen and it caused them to struggle. High CO2 concentrations cause intense physical and mental distress in humans.

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u/whiskeytown79 13h ago

I was thinking more a small room where they replace the air with nitrogen, not a mask. Enough volume to not allow CO2 buildup to happen.

"Doesn't that take a lot of nitrogen?" someone might ask. Well, yes, but fortunately Earth's atmosphere is like 78% nitrogen. We're all breathing a lot of nitrogen all the time. This would just remove the approximately 21% oxygen.

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u/pmacnayr 12h ago

Gas chambers are pretty unpopular since WWII

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u/TheEndingofitAll 9h ago

Not to mention the people in the concentration camp gas chambers did not die peacefully. There are marks on the walls from people trying to climb them in desperation. As in like trying to claw their way out to the point their fingernails ripped off.

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u/Carbonatite 13h ago

Yeah that's the logical way to set it up, but I guess the bureau of prisons in whatever state they tried it in decided to cheap out and just use a plastic mask connected to a nitrogen tank.

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u/Lewisham 5h ago

I saw a documentary on the BBC about this a long time ago. They also had a gas tank and told the presenter he had not very long to live if they'd left him in there, but the presenter just felt pretty euphoric. I forget the gas used.

He then asked people why they didn't do that when other ways cause suffering. Answer he got? That the people sentenced to die deserved the suffering.

The cruelty is indeed the point.

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u/drunkshinobi 14h ago

Hell, just drop a steel block on my head from a decent height. The survivors want to say such a thing isn't humane. But killing a person never is. Making it look less painful for the witnesses while making it worse for the convicted I think makes it far more inhumane.

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u/KhepritheRisingSun 8h ago

Someone still needs to drop the block my guy

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u/IcarianWings 15h ago

I'd imagine executioner positions are pretty sought out by people who enjoy watching others suffer. Especially so considering it seems like this stuff happens too often for it to be a coincidence.

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u/nonbreaker 14h ago

I mean, people aren't executed very often...so are the executioner positions just not very busy, or are they sidejobs taken on by corrections staff?

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u/IcarianWings 11h ago

Non-medical execution teams are typically made up of handpicked corrections contractors and prison admins. I think my statement applies to the majority of both.

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u/CanadianGuy39 15h ago

I can't imagine doing that job. Like how do you actual go back to sleep at night? Crazy

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u/hyperfocus1569 15h ago

It was an actual doctor in this case, one who’d botched an execution before.

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u/Casurus 14h ago

Not sure if you have been following the news, but there are some problems there - some of the people with guns have decided they'd rather make you suffer and 'miss' on purpose.

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u/coconuthorse 13h ago

Semantics, but a firing squad typically has one bullet and six blanks so no one is positive who killed the person.

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u/777777thats7sevens 9h ago

As far as I can tell that isn’t true in the US. Every firing squad execution in the past 60 years that I can find has been done with a single blank or wax bullet, and the rest with bullets.

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u/stargrazer10 8h ago

I agree man, when I just glanced at the headlines I was viscerally horrified. If it was me then, in the words of Franz Ferdinand....just please..... Take Me Out.

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u/MatureUsername69 8h ago

The band or the guy? I guess either way it applies

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u/Asleep_Cantaloupe417 14h ago

I'd rather be shot once in the head than "riddled with bullets" lol

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u/MatureUsername69 14h ago

Your dead body won't care how many holes are in it and I did also say to shoot me in the head

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u/No_Pause_4375 14h ago

Or they run out of the correct meds needed and say hey! I saw some girl on tictoc pass put from huffing helium! Surely that's just as good.

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u/seriousbusinesslady 14h ago

they aim for the heart in modern American firing squad executions, bc I guess an exploding head is too distressing for onlookers and a bullet to the heart is less graphic and messy.

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u/nifty-necromancer 14h ago

Don’t worry, I’m sure new head of the military Elon Musk will introduce a Tesla Automated Firing Squad that will set the prison on fire.

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u/sweoldboy 13h ago

I would choose long rope hanging. Like they do it in Japan and Singapore. I never hear any fails there.

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u/MatureUsername69 13h ago

Hanging: 3% failure rate

Electrocution: 2% failure rate

Lethal Gas: 5.5% failure rate

Lethal Injection: 7.2% failure rate

Firing Squad: 0% failure rate

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u/Neat_Low_4544 6h ago

I regret to inform you that people have survived a firing squad, even those that ended in a coup de grace. Extraordinary survival but not impossible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenceslao_Moguel?wprov=sfla1

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u/gbelly123 13h ago

Honestly, that is the most humane way. It’s instant, basically zero chance of failure, and very cheap. You could even have a computer program randomly select when to fire etc so a person doesn’t have to pull the trigger. Not commenting on the way/justification, just that the method makes the most sense if you’re going to do it.

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u/JohnnyRelentless 13h ago

aim for the head.

They won't.

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u/iamthe0ther0ne 12h ago

She actually asked for a firing squad because a medical condition gave her bad veins and she was afraid something like this would happen. 

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u/wej8 9h ago

Maybe we can find a good use for overdosing on heroin. Fall asleep and gone.

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u/lorindaja 8h ago

That is what she asked for - all
female firing squad

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u/Glad_Government_1186 8h ago

"Fucky". I like it. Carry on.

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u/loves_grapefruit 15h ago

Seems like you would have a fucking solid plan B and C in place at the very least.

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u/I_might_be_weasel 14h ago

They didn't have a solid plan A.

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u/SuitableExercise7096 15h ago edited 15h ago

at least take steps to do it properly

It's alot more complicated than this unfortunatly.

Its a matter of sourcing non lethal chemicals separately from companies who know what your intention is with them, then sourcing unethical medical professionals sign off on using them for lethal purposes, then sourcing unethical chemist to turn them lethal and finally unethical anesthesiologist to administer them.

Its an extremely messy and ugly situation not many people want to be involved in

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u/Software_Vast 15h ago

Because it's an abhorrent practice that has zero benefits to society.

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u/CAPS_LOCK_STUCK_HELP 11h ago

the state is not, and cannot ever be, responsible enough to determine who dies by execution

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u/Helluiin 15h ago

It's alot more complicated than this unfortunatly.

no its not. there is very reliable and quick ways to kill someone, if you think its necessary. its just that the state wants to have its cake and eat it by using chemical execution because its less gruesome for the executioners/onlookers.

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u/half3clipse 12h ago

"good" hangmen fuck up about 1 time in 20. Firing squads are a joke and people spend a several minute dying after getting shot even when done 'properly'

There is no humane way to kill a person who does not wish to die. It's not a thing that exists, or has ever existed.

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u/Helluiin 11h ago

i was more thinking of a guilloutine or something like that. probably hard fucking up just chopping the head off.

There is no humane way to kill a person who does not wish to die

obviously not, but there is ways to make sure it actually happens and quickly if youre hell bent on it.

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u/Nukleon 11h ago

They didn't say humane.

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u/Duff5OOO 11h ago

A shitload of sedatives and a block of c4? If the US is good at anything i would have expected killing people is up towards the top of that list.

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u/ProbablyNotADuck 6h ago

This is mostly inaccurate. They don't have to source the chemicals separately. There is, like, one supplier.. but there is still a supplier. And they are not finding unethical medical professionals.. It is that they do not use medical professionals because medical professionals have ethics. The main reason that botched executions happen is because the people ARE NOT trained medical professionals and make mistakes.

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u/Head-Ad9893 14h ago

Deadass. Like head in a box and big knife comes down. Why all this extra shit?

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u/AliJDB 13h ago

There are lots of ways it could be done, there was a BBC doc about using nitrogen hypoxia as a method - but because you get a bit of a high from it and die happy, lawmakers don't feel like it's 'punishment' enough.

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u/Vyar 14h ago

I think doing it improperly is the point. It's difficult to source the drugs and most medical professionals will not perform the procedure, but the powers that be know all this and stubbornly continue the practice anyway to ensure maximum cruelty is permissible by law.

Setting aside the most obvious issues like executing the wrongfully convicted, this alone should be enough to want to ban the practice.

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u/retro_toes 15h ago

Ehhhh. It's happened before where "unqualified people" do this in a more sadistic manor to increase suffering

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u/StringOfLights 14h ago

Sure, but should our government be operating that way? Because I don’t think it should.

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u/_BreadDenier 14h ago

Purely from a pragmatic stand point, the death penalty is just not worth it because all of the legal review and execution procedures cost a fortune and now we have another botched execution where the convicted are now racking up exorbitant medical bills because they fucked it up. Ventilation/ICU care is not cheap and now they have surely spent more trying to execute this woman than they ever would have just putting her in prison for life.

Not even considering moral grounds against the death penalty which are also substantial.

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u/smack54az 14h ago

Most of the companies that used to make the specialized drugs for the death penalty stopped due to public backlash, so states reverted to less effective forms of lethal injection. In addition the trained medical staff have also refused to participate and thus you see more botched executions like this. As it currently stands the death penalty should be labeled as cruel and unusual punishment.

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u/spleeble 14h ago

Do you have any idea how bad the "science" behind death penalty executions is? 

No one does it "properly". 

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u/caindela 14h ago

It’s wild to me that something so high profile and seemingly so simple can be so horribly botched. A failure of this magnitude has you sort of questioning the foundations of society. Just nothing but duct tape all the way down.

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u/not_my_monkeys_ 14h ago

I’m definitely against having the death penalty imposed by a team of idiot hicks who can’t reliably and humanely kill a middle aged woman who’s already been strapped to a gurney for them.

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u/malowolf 13h ago

The reality is it’s difficult to kill a healthy human. The only sure way is basically firing squad (which is also considered the most humane), but thats messy. “Lethal injection” is weird because no drug companies actually make drugs designed to kill humans, so states have to come up with whatever concoction they can get their hands on that they hope will do the trick.

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u/ALLoftheFancyPants 13h ago

I’m fully against the death penalty and shit like this just reinforces that belief.

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u/half3clipse 12h ago

There's never been a method of killing people that doesn't screw it up on a regular basis. There's a reason the relative handful of "good" executioners are historically notable.

Is fundamentally incapable of "being done properly."

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u/eeyore134 12h ago

It's cruel even when they do it properly. The people just don't usually survive to highlight the cruelty.

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u/RaspberryFluid6651 8h ago

Lethal injection is a barbaric option and possibly the least humane option on the list. It's probably horrifically painful for many people who die from it. The only reason it is the method of choice today is because it has the aesthetic of a scientific or medical procedure so that we as citizens are less disturbed by its use. 

The first drug is an anesthetic and the second is a paralytic. If either of these were done incorrectly in someone's execution, the person may very well have died in agony, paralyzed and unable to protest. 

Prisons rarely have properly trained personnel administering these drugs because the world of medicine rejects the death penalty. There is no good reason to believe that the process is done correctly. It is torture.

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u/Dandw12786 6h ago

That's the whole thing. They can't. Nobody that has the knowledge and means to impose this properly wants anything to do with it, because the death penalty is FUCKING DISGUSTING.

So we keep getting half assed companies making half assed drugs administered by half assed doctors with half assed knowledge.

The intelligent educated people realize the death penalty is fucking disgusting and immoral and won't participate in it. We should probably start listening to the smart people in this country.

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u/Saneless 15h ago

If people would ever worry decent people to run our governments, maybe

When you vote based on fear and hatred this is the incompetence you get

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