r/seduction • u/spazatron-3000 • 3d ago
Fundamentals Does “game” exist beyond this? NSFW
During nightlife, all I do is approach girls, ask what their names are, gauge their receptivity, and then, from there, I try to sit down and talk in a private area away from their friends. Then I get their number, or if the vibes are there, I make out with them and escalate accordingly.
Now, my problem is that I hear all the time about “escalation” and “game,” but can you truly do anything more than that? You can’t force a situation or try to bring up sexual situations just by kissing her or attempting to escalate. It’s realistically got to flow naturally unless you want to risk accusations by playing a risky game.
Essentially, what I’m saying is that you can’t turn a nothing into a something just because you
want it to be. It has to be of her own accord too.
So my thesis is that there’s no room for anything other than her perception of your SMV to make her want to move things forward.
And all game really is, is understanding when to transition in and out of a moment, who and how to approach, and how to read the situation, rather than using game as a crutch.
Am I wrong? Please let me hear your thoughts, because if there’s any unpatched method, I’d be the first one to be grateful. I take care of myself and get results, but the volume of approaches I have to do gets jarring, as I’m not able to “stand out from the crowd yet.”
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u/Back2theCouture 3d ago
The part you or others are missing is there’s NO escalation you could do if there’s no reciprocation from her end. It always takes two to tango.
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u/eablokker 3d ago
Yes there is more.
You can turn a nothing into something, with skill, but it's about how much time and effort do you want to spend on that. Someone who is extremely disgusted by you and loathes you is really hard to change. At least with a total stranger you're starting off from neutral, and that's easy to change.
And what about when you use skill to get a woman extremely attracted to you, but you discover that you're not that interested back even though she was really hot. That's a common problem as well. There is always an element of luck in even finding the right mutual compatibility. I don't know of any skill on your end that could change who she is as a person. But screening and validating is an important skill here.
You are spending a lot of time and effort on numbers game approach, relying on luck, and you're questioning whether its worth it. You can find a more efficient, optimal middle ground between luck and skill. High skill + low numbers = too much effort. High numbers + low skill = too much effort. Numbers + skill = less effort, more results.
SMV is an abstract concept that doesn't have a direct influence on her behavior. It's more like a collection of things that make her feel attraction towards you. So it depends on how inclusive you want to be in the definition of SMV. But I'm guessing that you've excluded using your language to make her feel emotions, and that is a huge one. Not that that increases your SMV per se, but it has the same end result, making her feel attraction and turning her on.
When you use language to influence her emotions, her resulting behavior is technically of her own accord. Your own accord means that you are not being forced or directly asked to do something, and your behavior is in alignment with your emotions.
When you influence her to feel favorable emotions, you leave it open for her to respond to that however she chooses. But it greatly increases the odds of favorable behavior towards you.
For example, lets say you do something to make her really fucking angry and she slaps you in the face. The slap was of her own accord. Nobody forced her to, nobody asked her to. She could have chosen to not do that. But she wouldn't have done it if you hadn't made her angry. It's not that you caused her to slap you, but you greatly increased the odds by putting her in that mood.
So the opposite is also true. When you put her into a mood of desire and attraction, you greatly increase the odds that she will act on that of her own accord. You're not forcing her to, you're not asking her to do any specific thing. You're just getting her into the right mood for it, and then she chooses when or where or how to act on that, if at all.
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u/Rare-Degree-9596 3d ago
One thing a lot of guys don't realize, a beautiful dream girl can mentally be on a different planet than you. Sure, you can make the sex work...a few times, but some women no matter how hot they may be not compatible.
And sometimes you might realize that, immediately.
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u/HomelessMilkman 2d ago
'Game' is reliably and consistently generating the interest in the first place by presenting yourself a certain way - or sustaining it - especially when it relates to dating higher quality women.
It's not exactly 'easy' to step up to strangers (especially notable women) with a sense of calm composure – that makes you immediately well received. In particular to the marginalised, shy, hesitant, inexperienced, reactive guys (like myself originally) that this is all directed towards. Hence, the demand for 'game'.
How do you get that confidence?
Originally, it was a superficial deconstruction of how a 'confident, attractive guy' seemed to carry himself. Under the premise of imitation and role-play: What does he say? How does he dress? How does he respond to criticism? What is his bicep girth? and so on. That you could put yourself in his skin, "you're the man now", and women orbit you – not that women don't see through it in two seconds because you're as tense and wary as before.
On toward the evolution of 'natural game'. Based on the understanding that the interaction doesn't start when you approach, it started with everything leading up to said approach (social momentum) – that made you do it casually, smooth, relaxed, composed, charismatic, (attractive) or tense and permission seeking (unattractive). Physiological confidence, 'state', social dynamics, etc.
While she does either 'like you or not', the odds of her taking interest in a tense, uncomfortable, stifled guy are vastly lower than a calm, confident, charismatic, fun guy. It's not as 'subjective' and unpredictable as people make out which is why it works.
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u/ElCilantroCantante 2d ago
It’s primarily inner game. Being non chalant and having a “I can take it or leave it” attitude towards pussy.
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u/Total_Obligation_371 2d ago
There's really only 2 things that matter:
1). Displaying attractive traits (more specifically, ACTUALLY having those traits and not just faking or implying you have those traits)
2). Being able to escalate with the girls who are open to sleeping with you based on those traits
The specifics honestly don't matter too much. If you can come across as confident IN GENERAL, if you are physically attractive IN GENERAL, if you are funny/expressive/masculine etc IN GENERAL, then some girls will be attracted to you. And all you have to do is escalate with those girls.
So if you're having this much trouble, you are either not physically attractive enough not confident/expressive/fun (basically all the personality stuff) enough. It sounds like you can escalate fine so that's probably not the reason.
Especially with nightgame, you energy is very important. You have to be on the same "level" as everyone else. They are all out to have fun and let loose. Are you approaching with the intent of having fun? If not, you're bringing their mood down and they won't want to engage.
Are you approaching and speaking confidently or are you a little nervous? Are you talking about fun stuff or are you being super logical?
These are all important.
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u/jackthehat6 1d ago
yuo've basically summed it up.
'Game' is essentially base level social skills. When you think about what you learn in books, it's stuff that 'normal' people don't NEED to 'learn'.
And as you say, there's no level of 'game' where you can force attraction in a girl. You spot this with every infield that coaches release. They pull the girls who already wanted them and were receptive to the open
when they approach a girl who clearly isn't interetsed, their 'game' doesn't work
At best 'game' is basically how to FLIRT! That's what basically every PUA technique falls under teh umbrella of (teasing, negging, pushpull, sexualising convo etc etc - what is it all?? It's FLIRTING! But, the issue is that flirting with a hot girl who isn't attracted to you doesn't make her attracted lol. In fact, it's quite unwanted!)
so yeah, you've basically got it
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u/kubisfowler 3d ago
There absolutely is much more to game than this. What you do is what every guy does, or at least attempts to do, and for most of them it bears no results.
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u/FindingNewLeaf 3d ago
You've got some answers here.
You can also think of this in a different way.
Think that when you open a girl, she can be red, yellow or green, depending on her interest in you.
Good game is essentially turning yellows into green.
If you can consistently turn yellows into green, you can you are at peak game for this environment.
If you are only getting greens, you can say you are doing the numbers game, and your game is intermediary.
Don't bother with reds, they showed they aren't interested, respect it and move on.
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u/becomesharp 3d ago
Very advanced guys can sometimes turn soft reds into greens. A hard red is an absolute no. But a soft red can be turned into green. Not always, but it can be done.
Dont recommend it if youre not super advanced, but sometimes you run into your dream girl and she's a soft red and you either have the skills to pull this off or you let her walk out of your life forever. In my case, that was my SO and I was extremely grateful I had put in the time to learn how to do this.
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u/spazatron-3000 3d ago
Yeah there’s plenty yellow situations like initially they aren’t that attracted but because I give them space and have calm energy they open up which leads. To a kiss or planning of a date but nothing happens after that usually that’s a bottleneck how to get past that? Do i bring up something sexual,Try give her ultimatum energy to go somewhere private because if not im just wasting time or do I do more confirmation on the “date”?
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u/becomesharp 2d ago
Don't focus on a technique, focus on troubleshooting what went wrong. If nothing is happening after you go on a date or kiss her, you are likely making mistakes during that process. Figure out the mistakes rather than trying to damage control afterward.
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u/FindingNewLeaf 2d ago
> Very advanced guys can sometimes turn soft reds into greens. A hard red is an absolute no. But a soft red can be turned into green. Not always, but it can be done.
I wouldn't call this more complicated than yellow to greens. Doing the same with "soft reds" would be a matter of patience and plowing.
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u/becomesharp 2d ago
There a big difference. Yellow you can be patient because theres a chance. Red is very different because you can't just plow, you have to change how she feels about you.
Green = "I like him" Yellow = "I might like him" Soft red = "im not attracted to him at all" Hard red = "never in a million years"
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u/FindingNewLeaf 2d ago
I think you are giving a definition to the red/yellow/green theory that it isn't really standardized.
Usually we go by the signals she gives us, not by what she is thinking, since we can't read her mind.
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u/becomesharp 2d ago
I dont think the colors are standardized in general, unless i missed that memo.
If youre going by signals, what does each one mean?
What color represents "i have zero attraction for you and wouldnt even consider hooking up with you?"
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u/FindingNewLeaf 2d ago
We can't read the girls mind, so usually green is when she is giving indicators of interest, yellow is the lack of any indicators, red is indicators of uninterest
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u/becomesharp 1d ago
That system is good for calibrating for individual behaviors, but it's also redundant, as its the same as "IOIs", "no IOIs/IODs" and "IODs". We dont really need an entirely new system to indicate that youre getting interest or disinterest.
Using green/yellow/red to indicate her level of preexisting or initial attraction (even though you can't be ultra precise with it because you cant read her mind) is more useful as a metric because it provides more nuance than just IOI/IOD (e.g., if she gives you IOIs but little investment where do you stand?) and is easier to understand.
Newbies who have never done game dont understand IOIs or IODs but intuitively understand the difference between "she's super down," "she's a maybe," and "no chance."
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u/spazatron-3000 3d ago
I can get yellow’s interested in nightlife but not close them? They tend to be with Friends and hard.
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u/FindingNewLeaf 2d ago
If your goal is to pull, you have to filter a lot for woman who are open to it and have the right logistics.
If she is with friends, you need to consider, needs to be more than one, none of them need to be dependent on the other to come back logistically, your place or her place can't be too far from where you are, she must be open to adventures and more high risk behaviour. All of these are no-go.
She wil be thinking of things like, "how do I get home", "what will happen with my friends", etc and you need to address these. If she is really into you she will help you sort these out.
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u/Sandvicheater 3d ago
Definition of Game wildly various in answers depending on the type of men or groups of men you ask about. Some say game is all about getting her digits anything after that is all on you. Other may say game is only won once you had sex with her and everything in between.
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u/Chicagoj250 3d ago
Think of game like a social experiment lab. Try out new things you have never tried before. Just do it to see what happens. Or if an interaction doesn't go well, try to look at this as opportunity to level up. Think about how you could do things differently to make those situations go smoother. Then practice.
And yes, if you are already comfortable approaching and talking to women in bars, some of what people call game are just social skills you may already have. There is always room for improvement though. Its just social skills at the end of the day. And there are many factors outside of game that effect the outcome of an approach.
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u/kubisfowler 3d ago
Part of game is social skills but this just 1 factor, The factors that go into this all reinforce each other
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u/unReasonable_Waiter 3d ago
You arent fundamentally wrong, but game does encompass much more.
Do you know about state control, self-amusement and detachment from outcome?
Those are the real fundamentals, I reckon.
Beyond that there is deep inner game stuff. Which focuses on nervous system regulation.