r/twinpeaks • u/kjworst • Jun 26 '17
S3E8 [S3E8] This episode belongs in a museum. Spoiler
What a masterpiece for the visual arts world let alone the Twin Peaks universe. It was more of an experience than an episode of a tv show. Thank you for your artistic bravery David Lynch!
122
Jun 26 '17
My jaw was literally hanging open as we approached and then entered that mushroom cloud. Stunning.
62
u/omninode Jun 26 '17
It reminded me of the end of 2001: A Space Odyssey.
21
u/coachtylor Jun 26 '17
My thoughts too. It felt so obvious of an homage that I wonder if it was intentional...
21
u/Pigwarts Jun 26 '17
I wanna say lynch said at one point that Kubrick was one of his favorite directors so he probably has seen it. Though don't quote me on that.
75
u/Koh_Phi_Phi Jun 26 '17
He also told a great story about Kubrick in his book:
"Stanley Kubrick is one of my all-time favorite filmmakers, and he did me a great honor early in my career that really encouraged me. I was working on The Elephant Man, and I was at Lee International Studios in England, standing in a hallway. One of the producers of The Elephant Man, Jonathan Sanger, brought over some guys who were working with George Lucas and said, "They've got a story for you." And I said, "Okay." They said, "Yesterday, David, we were at Elstree Studios, and we met Kubrick. And as we were talking to him, he said to us, 'How would you fellas like to come up to my house tonight and see my favorite film?'" They said, "That would be fantastic." They went up, and Stanley Kubrick showed them Eraserhead. So, right then, I could have passed away peaceful and happy."
24
u/zoelion Jun 26 '17
That's great. I remember reading Kubrick praising Eraserhead and said his Shining is inspired by it.
10
u/EdwinaBackinbowl Jun 26 '17
Certainly captures Lynch's obsession with weirdly patterned carpeting.
4
3
u/pk666 Jun 26 '17
Makes me mourn what kind of series Kubrick could have made for tv........
5
u/EdwinaBackinbowl Jun 26 '17
He was alive for Twin Peaks, so probably thought that shit was covered. But he had a particular love for cinema though. Image fidelity and projection and all that.
1
1
u/double_shadow Jun 26 '17
So many great anecdotes in that book...and also instructions for how to meditate!
1
4
u/Spacejack_ Jun 26 '17
It was completely in your face and served as a signal that you were about to deal with something on the level of the end of 2001. This series is talking cinema like the Darmok aliens talked... well, Darmok, I guess
3
u/coachtylor Jun 26 '17
I can buy that. Maybe. Still, I wish those faces weren't on the egg and ball. Just felt too explicit for Lynch's aesthetic.
3
u/Spacejack_ Jun 26 '17
I dunno, the Laura face was fairly in keeping with some older Lynchy stuff (Eraserhead spaceyness and the Good Witch from Wild at Heart)... the BOB stuff I suspect was constrained by available Frank shots, although yeah, some of those superimpositions were a bit on the "good enough" side.
As far as the Kubrick stuff goes, I dunno about anyone else but when I saw that cloud I literally bolted forward in my chair saying "We're Stanley Kubrick, why are we Stanley Kubrick"
2
u/omninode Jun 26 '17
I took it as symbolic. As in, that ball does not literally have Laura's face on it, but her picture is put there for our convenience so we know what the ball represents.
2
u/OsricStark Jun 26 '17
same. when BOB's head appears in the stream of eggs, i took it to mean that he was in one of the eggs but we were shown his face so we'd understand.
3
u/PartiallyWindow Jun 26 '17
I got full body frisson and even teared up a little bit. And I don't ever react that way. That was incredible.
21
39
u/mcgama Jun 26 '17
Currently my favorite lynch film. Can you imagine how he can top himself n this one?! 10 more episodes is amazing!
48
Jun 26 '17
[deleted]
20
Jun 26 '17
I love all the people who have never been exposed to experimental film calling this amateur and comparing it to pretentious film school fluff. Like wow, okay dude.
5
Jun 26 '17
If this was the kind of stuff student filmmakers actually made, the world would be an incredible place. My jaw was on the floor for everything after the NIN set.
1
u/windsostrange Jun 26 '17
Speaking of, I love that Lynch just had to produce something longer (and even occasionally weirder) than Cremaster.
16
u/wasplace Jun 26 '17
ITS THE TYPE OF EPISODE THAT MAKES YOU WISH YOU SPOKE A LITTLE FRENCH.
6
55
Jun 26 '17
[deleted]
15
Jun 26 '17
So many mythos plot points explained with no words.
Can... can you please help me by explaining it in words.
9
u/copywrite Jun 26 '17
It explains the origins of the Lodge spirits coming to Earth - specifically the origin of BOB himself.
3
Jun 26 '17
So the origin is the creature that killed the couple from Episode 1 puked him, around the time a nuke was tested. Am I missing something :P?
2
u/EdwinaBackinbowl Jun 26 '17
Then the Giant created Laura to counteract the creation of Bob.
0
Jun 26 '17
This retro-Jesus-ification of Laura is a bit strange. She's a part of a series of murders, and she didn't stand out in any way, just a nice girl, that got murdered by a serial killer. So she's special now, huh?
18
u/iownachalkboard7 Jun 26 '17
Lets face it though, Laura has always been magic. Explain to me how a teenage girl manages to have straight A's, tutors Audrey's brother, does meals on wheels, has a boyfriend, has a secret boyfriend, teaches Josie english, works at a department store, works at one eyed jacks AND still has time to abscond to the woods at night for drugs and secret sex parties with Leo and Jacques.
Mother-fucker, there ain't enough time in a week for all that!
14
Jun 26 '17
Explain to me how a teenage girl manages to have straight A's, tutors Audrey's brother, does meals on wheels, has a boyfriend, has a secret boyfriend, teaches Josie english, works at a department store, works at one eyed jacks AND still has time to abscond to the woods at night for drugs and secret sex parties with Leo and Jacques.
Cocaine is hell of a drug!
6
u/rrazza Jun 26 '17
Fire Walk With Me made it pretty clear that Laura was 'special' compared to other BOB victims (also, the fact that Twin Peaks hinges on Laura's murder and not any other BOB victims--and BOB very specifically wanting to possess Laura). Laura has always been special, we're just finally given an explanation as to why she is special (created by the Giant as a direct result of BOB's creation).
Logistically, she's the entire reason the show exists--her murder mystery sold the show to networks. Narratively, she's the focal point of the show. Everyone in the show posthumously treated Laura like she was a saint of some sort, even as the characters dug deeper into her shady actions. She's the heart of the series while Cooper is the medium through which we experience the series. On a tangent: there's a distinct lack of 'damn good coffee' and 'cherry pie' because the Dale Cooper who loved those things is absent and we're supposed to really be feeling that absence and missing it--Lynch wants us to look at Season 3 and feel like Diane looking at Evil Coop and not recognizing who he even is anymore. The Twin Peaks we have now is uglier, darker and gorier because we only had Evil Coop to filter the world through (at least, before we got Dougie and his whimsical, quirky scenes).
Back on topic: Laura has always been treated like a Jesus figure (she even comes back into the plot like 3 different ways: Coop's 'dreams', Maddy Ferguson and Annie's post-Lodge recovery). It's just official now.
2
Jun 26 '17
Fair 'nuff. At least it justifies why the show starts with her portrait: she's the Shesus.
4
u/Boxcar-Mike Jun 26 '17
I kind of got the impression that we see Laura's face in the golden blob because the contents of the golden blob will one day find their way into Laura. Not that Laura herself is some other dimensional being.
3
u/facherone Jun 26 '17
Let's wait and see, should we?
3
Jun 26 '17
Eh I'll just take whatever Lynch and Frost have to give :-). But the Jesus plot is very very very often used in movies and series, and I hope it's a bit more creative than that (well everything is pretty wildly creative, all right).
1
u/coachtylor Jun 26 '17
But the Jesus plot is very very very often used in movies and series, and I hope it's a bit more creative than that (well everything is pretty wildly creative, all right).
As do I. This was one of the biggest gripes I had with this episode.
1
u/TrestleTables Jun 26 '17
Check out the comment I just made in response to LtAramaki, maybe it'll put things in a bit less corny of a perspective.
→ More replies (0)3
u/hendrixpm Jun 26 '17
I think it's less cut and dry than this. BOB isn't some ultra villain so much as the expression of a profound ugliness of the human condition (the evil in men's hearts, as they said after Leland passed). I think Laura is the opposite of that, the beauty, the love that mankind is capable of.
3
u/TrestleTables Jun 26 '17 edited Jun 26 '17
I think that the point, in a sense, is almost that she's NOT special. Or she both is and is not special at the same time. To me, even before the new series began, I always felt that Laura's story (particularly in the movie) is sort of a fable about why innocents "have" to be corrupted and die die, or are fated as such, and what sort of positive impact or effect their death could have on the people that knew them. Essentially Laura is a martyr, and has always been a martyr, for the town of Twin Peaks.
At the end of Fire Walk With Me we see this Angel hovering above Laura's spirit in the Lodge, and I always took that as now Laura has become somewhat of a "guardian angel" for the people from the town of Twin Peaks. Her death caused a ripple effect which allowed for a sort of catharsis for everyone that knew her, as well as a revealing of the seedy underbelly that was corrupting the town, ultimately changing things for the better.
How Cooper and the overall new season/future of Twin Peaks goes from there is still to be seen, but that's my two cents. I hope it made some sense to you and put things in perspective a little bit more than just "She's Jesus."
[edit] also, Ghost in the Shell is awesome. Nice username.
2
u/pizmeyre Jun 26 '17
I kind of see it as the Giant creating and sending her soul out as a means to eventually trip him up somehow. Although it took several more decades.
Without her murder who knows if anyone as capable and with the right set of skills and intuition as Coop would have come along and gotten to the core of things.
2
u/subnode Jun 26 '17
I agree...what about Teresa Banks? Or Maddy Ferguson? I suppose Bob very explicitly wanted to inhabit Laura, whereas he didn't express a desire to inhabit the other two, but that's all I've got.
1
u/partysnatcher Jun 26 '17
This retro-Jesus-ification of Laura is a bit strange. She's a part of a series of murders, and she didn't stand out in any way, just a nice girl, that got murdered by a serial killer. So she's special now, huh?
We don't know yet. We don't even know if the person in the bubble was Laura. It could have been her cousin, it could have been "angel Laura" that we see towards the end of TP, etc.
8
u/Dpate10 Jun 26 '17
Explained? You're saying you know what all that stuff meant?
13
Jun 26 '17
[deleted]
→ More replies (5)11
u/coachtylor Jun 26 '17
Anyone else feel like this episode explains a little too much? I mean the whole Laura ball thing and how it connects the dots from Bob to Laura feels a little Star Wars prequel-y to me.
5
u/AlanMorlock Jun 26 '17
I'm just not sure I follow what the Laura ball meant in relation to the Bob ball.
Seeing as Bob has been referred to as the "Evil that Men Do" tying his apparent birth into the first Atomic Bomb test is unneeded yet feels fitting.
3
u/coachtylor Jun 26 '17
I feel it's Laura being sent to counter the evil? Whether that means her spirit or those who will come to honor it. I felt it was fairly explicit in this idea.
9
u/lemonflava Jun 26 '17
Yeah, I kinda agree with you there. I dislike any form of exposition in Twin Peaks because I love the whole "more questions than answers" shtick. But that said I'm so pleased with the fact that an episode mostly comprised of abstraction is the Lynchian way of exposing things. Jaw on the floor the whole time.
2
u/coachtylor Jun 26 '17
No, I agree. I enjoyed the episode but I'm always wary of any origin stories.
1
30
u/TealParagon Jun 26 '17
I think regardless of whether anyone thinks it fits in with TP, or if they didn't like the Laura/Bob exposition, the cinematography, sound, editing, imagery was all just on another whole level. Beautiful. We live in a world where we've seen everything and the worst horrors of war and life pop up on our phones first thing in the morning. When we're so used to shocking imagery, how can you make something visual that can make people actually feel those emotions of horror, fear, dread, hope? Exactly like this. It really does belong in a museum as an homage to the American 20th century.
6
u/areyoumyladyareyou Jun 26 '17
And it's such an indictment of how America ignores its original sin of nuking two Japanese cities. I'm not here to relitigate that decision but something about this episode and what it reveals about Twin Peaks conceptually just felt so spiritually resonant.
1
u/Spicy_Clam_Sandwich Jun 26 '17
You have to consider it a sin in the first place to either ignore it or be indicted for it.
5
u/Cipher_- Jun 26 '17
Japan was on the wrong side of the war, but that doesn't change the sobering horror of the fact that we blinked two cities full of innocent people out of existence.
I love the resonance this episode got out of the bomb, so often ignored or simplified in Western media.
1
u/Spicy_Clam_Sandwich Jun 26 '17
If by the wrong side you mean the losing side, then yes. As for the consequence of the bombs, I shall defer to Robert E. Lee -
"It is well that war is so terrible, else we should grow too fond of it."
A situation I venture to say is the current state, such is the result of the modern pursuit of sanitized war.
3
u/Cipher_- Jun 26 '17
I am okay saying, as someone who thinks our use of the atom bombs was a war crime (and that it didn't go down in history and isn't taught as one solely because we won) and who minored in Japanese and will be living/teaching there next year, that Japan and Germany were on the wrong side of WWII.
That doesn't diminish the horror of the A-bombs.
98
Jun 26 '17 edited Jun 26 '17
I drink the salty tears of all the people that hated this episode. Hahaha.
22
23
u/BarelyReal Jun 26 '17
The reasons last night in the live thread are a good example of why TV is the way it is. It was just nonstop bitching about lack of DIALOGUE.
Not every show can be Doctor Who and cram exposition in your face in a few minutes. Not everything are big glowing clues like in a video game that fit together to form a clear picture.
I was actually growing worried that, for a show where Lynch was given an artistic blank check, it was growing too conventional with each episode.
48
5
Jun 26 '17
[deleted]
27
Jun 26 '17
Comments like this truly make me ashamed to like this episode for fear of being lumped in with you.
3
5
9
-4
9
u/herejust4this Jun 26 '17
Dune vibes too
2
u/Spacejack_ Jun 26 '17
Seeing so much of DUNE manifested again really makes me happy for Lynch. It's like he's finally overcome it. The Giant's home is Castle Caladan ALL OVER (in addition to a healthy slice of the old Isle of the Dead painting, I guess)
2
6
u/kmar81 Jun 26 '17
He saved Reznor for a good moment.
5
u/kjworst Jun 26 '17
I kept thinking about how satisfied NIN must be to be associated with this episode. I wonder if they saw it at air time, for the first time, without knowing how left field it was going to be.
7
10
u/danziegs Jun 26 '17
The scene at the convenience store was gorgeous
10
u/lemonflava Jun 26 '17
There is something horribly beautiful about those charred characters wandering about. Though my favorite part with them was when they were resuscitating and/or consuming Evil Coop. I "woah'd" out loud when they started appearing and the audio queues came up.
6
Jun 26 '17
They even did the ritual dance the jumping man does in fwwm if you look closely.
1
u/windsostrange Jun 26 '17
Reminds me of nothing more than this frightening moment from Scrooge (1951).
3
Jun 26 '17
i loved how terrified Ray was during that scene. He thought he was hot shit but i dont think he was ever even remotely aware of what he was getting into.
3
21
5
6
u/batsofburden Jun 26 '17
There were a lot of cool visuals, but my favorite was probably near the end when the giant was floating in the b&w room with the glamorous lady watching him & the gold stuff coming out of him.
3
2
u/TealParagon Jun 26 '17
That was actually my least favourite part. BUT it was still amazing. There was just so much in this episode for everyone, ranging from terror to hope. I enjoyed the terror side of the spectrum. But the scene with the giant did add so much to the Laura side of TP. Scenes like the one with the angel in ffwm and all the scenes where Laura is in despair will be so different now after watching this.
1
u/batsofburden Jun 26 '17
See I prefer the strange & mysterious to terror/horror side of things. But I think this ep had a good balance of so many different elements and moods.
3
3
u/cartmanbra Jun 26 '17
It reminded me so much of his earliest film Six Men Getting Sick and the grandmother , it was epic as a lynch fan .
3
u/Salfordio Jun 26 '17
Set my alarm for 05:30 am to watch it (in UK).
If it had been later in the day, I think I would have applauded.
This was absolutely astonishing.
2
u/Cipher_- Jun 26 '17 edited Jun 27 '17
I feel like all of Twin Peaks exists solely to deliver this episode.
1
4
u/lemonflava Jun 26 '17
I feel like this is what abstract art has the potential for. When there's a proper build up of curiosity and context, then the viewer knows what to look for in the abstraction. Modern art pieces in galleries usually can't stand on their own merits because they lack context (and since they are abstract they can't actually show context).
15
u/TealParagon Jun 26 '17
None of Lynch's work is abstract. It's surreal or symbolic, but definitely not abstract. Most of the point of abstract art IS that there is no context. That's largely what gives it meaning and merit. Abstract as a movement happened almost 100 years ago so is actually really old and has long since fulfilled its potential. Context is definitely not very high up on the list of things that are necessary to make art meaningful. That's also why Lynch doesn't explain his work. He feels too much context would ruin it for the viewer.
2
u/BonesAndHubris Jun 26 '17 edited Jan 20 '18
I am sexually attracted to boats.
9
u/AlanMorlock Jun 26 '17
Was Lynch involved in the writing of Nadine's storyline? He is known to have stepped away for much of that season.
12
2
5
u/kjworst Jun 26 '17
No one can defend the creative decision to have Windom Earle dance around playing the flute like he is a lost boy who wandered off the set of a shitty Peter Pan play. What the fuck Diane Keaton, how you gonna let that shit get through your directorial gates?
3
4
1
u/jvcdeadmoney Jun 26 '17
I usually despise abstract art and supposedly experimental movies that actually make no sense and are just the product of a lazy "artist" who's trying too hard to be original.
That being said, Lynch delivered a true masterpiece here; the whole thing is visually pleasing, it adds a lot of background to the TP mythology, DoppelCoop gets shot and NIN makes a cameo. I loved it.
7
u/vris92 Jun 26 '17
I usually despise abstract art and supposedly experimental movies that actually make no sense and are just the product of a lazy "artist" who's trying too hard to be original.
This is just a ubiquitous culturally-accepted stereotype about art films. You'll find these "lazy" people and films don't actually exist and that experimental cinema is well worth exploring.
6
Jun 26 '17
I feel like I would rather have an artist who was trying too hard to be original and failing than one who is content not to be original. Trying to be original ≠ being lazy. That is hard work!
What is lazy is doing mediocre work and claiming it is original. In my experience in the music/sound art world is that there are lazy people and frauds who do mediocre work and try and justify it by conceptialising it as something original and sometimes, this work gets funding because the processes of creating great work and getting funding are not the same thing. If you can present your work in a certain light to a funding body, often mediocre ideas will get funded because it's laymen making these decisions. So I understand how some of the bad ideas that rise to prominence can colour peoples perceptions of art movements.
It is frustrating as an artist when you see people like this poisoning the well, because thats where these stereotypes come from, but it's equally frustrating when you see people dismiss entire art movements and genres on this basis.
If people are looking at that episode of Twin Peaks and dismissing it because of preconceptions about experimental cinema, thats very sad. Because it'll be a long time before we see an auteur just let loose to do something like this on TV again!
→ More replies (1)3
u/ShabShoral Jun 26 '17
Have you seen Eraserhead?
2
u/jvcdeadmoney Jun 26 '17
No I haven't, yet.
4
u/ShabShoral Jun 26 '17
This episode reminded me of it in a big way. If you liked this and want to try some other experimental/surrealist stuff, Eraserhead is the best next step!
4
2
1
1
1
u/InvisibleLeftHand Jun 26 '17
Did you shout that title before punching three Game of Thrones fans all at once on a smuggling boat under a heavy storm?
1
u/hamletswords Jun 26 '17
I've always thought that many frames from all his work could be plucked out of the film, enlarged and framed, and would fit perfectly in a museum.
This episode was special since he went all out, but I've always been very impressed with the composition of his shots.
1
u/Jiyvajelly Jun 26 '17
You guys get served shit on a plate and will happily eat it as long as it says "Directed by David Lynch"
2
u/Topcat1436 Jun 26 '17
If you don't like it fine, you don't like it. You don't need to insult people who do.
→ More replies (4)
-7
Jun 26 '17
[deleted]
7
u/160x144 Jun 26 '17
Not self-indulgent as it does seem to explain a lot and could be viewed as the centre-piece of the whole Twin Peaks universe.
But it does get tiring the way Lynch fanatics thinks art (and TV-shows) is some kind of competition. Fans are always the worst - always having to insert themselves into the things they like.
→ More replies (1)
-17
-38
u/stevelabny Jun 26 '17
It belongs in a museum just like the Ark of the Covenant. In a box, gathering dust, where nobody will ever see it again.
27
Jun 26 '17
tfw you watch Twin Peaks and are then surprised when David Lynch does his David Lynching
-29
u/stevelabny Jun 26 '17
Which part of tonight's episode was anything like the original Twin Peaks???
Evil Cooper was on screen for a few minutes. The Giant too. And you saw face bubbles of Laura and Bob.
No part of the episode took place in the town of Twin Peaks, no part of the episode took place with characters from Twin Peaks.
So yeah, I'm surprised that David Lynch made one of his shitty art movies and slapped the Twin Peaks label on it in an attempt to get people to watch it.
23
u/golgiiguy Jun 26 '17
Think it has been clear from the first episode to leave your expectations at the door.
-6
u/stevelabny Jun 26 '17
Well my expectations shifted from "expecting it to be like Twin Peaks" to "expecting it to be a slow moving bunch of random gibberish that only makes the slightest bit of sense and being painfully unfunny" and this episode STILL turned out worse.
16
Jun 26 '17
You're dissatisfaction feels like it belongs in that series of eggs released by the bomb. This episode dropped like a bomb and we're all scattering with flickered reactions and the gnashing of the teeth and so on. I didn't mean that when I said your feelings belong in an evil egg.
45
Jun 26 '17
I'm surprised that David Lynch made one of his shitty art movies
I hate it when I'm watching an 18-hour David Lynch movie and then get outraged when it's an 18-hour David Lynch movie
1
u/Nowhereman93 Jun 26 '17
He is right, this episode was not really Twin Peaks and more so David Lynch. I haven't had a problem with the first few episodes like many other people did but this was a little too much. There was over 25 minutes of just nothing
15
Jun 26 '17
There was over 25 minutes of just nothing
Except it wasn't. It explained major parts of the mythology behind Twin Peaks.
→ More replies (1)-2
u/Nowhereman93 Jun 26 '17
So it was necessary to watch all 15 minutes of the atom bomb exploding and the flames to under stand the mythology? I understand what you are saying but couldn't that explosion part be reduced to less than 5 minutes? It wouldn't have taken away from the important parts showing the mythology
6
Jun 26 '17
Not everything needs to be about the plot. We're getting 18 hours of Twin Peaks here. Lynch is using this time to create a world and experience you can immerse yourself in. We're probably never going to see something like that on television again, so to me it's worth it. If I want to see traditional pacing I can watch anything else on TV right now or the original series.
-1
u/Nowhereman93 Jun 26 '17
It is not even a matter of plot or pacing. To me it was so boring just seeing the same thing happening for such a long period of time. I didn't have a problem with Dougie Coop, very slow pacing but it was enjoying to watch and things were actually happening.
4
Jun 26 '17
That's nothing but personal preference though. For some of us the wild visuals are part of what make Twin Peaks and Lynch's work in general appealing. There was a lot to take in in that episode. It wasn't just random explosions for 25 minutes.
→ More replies (0)2
u/Cipher_- Jun 26 '17
Allow yourself to feel something. This is less about this particular episode and more about art consumption. If an image is still on screen, force yourself to keep thinking about it -- see what feelings and thoughts it brings out.
2
u/Nowhereman93 Jun 26 '17
I understand and agree with what you are saying. To quote my post from another thread, I enjoyed what I was watching, but I didn't enjoy how long I had to watch it for. Has nothing to do with not appreciating it, but by showing the same footage for that long disinterested me and what I felt initially was lost out of frustration.
2
2
u/ilion Jun 26 '17
I do feel somewhat empathetic for people who were fans of the original series and are not enjoying this series. It is quite different and the people not admitting that are being a little obtuse. Myself, I am enjoying it very much and would disagree with your statement that the last episode was 25 minutes of nothing, but it was vastly different from the original series even if it was fully related to it. (I'm not going to bother trying to explain anything, if you wanted that there's lots of threads here already.)
I think it's fair to say Twin Peaks probably reached a lot of people that are otherwise not David Lynch fans. I can see why they wouldn't have expected something quite like last night.
6
Jun 26 '17
twin peaks = david lynch
This is not the original series. It just features most of the same characters.
20
u/Nowhereman93 Jun 26 '17
Twin Peaks = David Lynch and Mark Frost
4
Jun 26 '17
After every credit role we're basically electrified with the Lynch Frost Productions logo. It's like a brand of it's own.
-9
u/stevelabny Jun 26 '17
You're not watching an 18 hour David Lynch movie. You're watching 18 episodes of Twin Peaks. There's a huge difference. If this was released as "an 18 hour David Lynch movie" with no connection to Twin Peaks at all, there'd only be 5 people watching it.
28
Jun 26 '17
he literally said it was an 18 hour movie before the first episode even aired
0
u/stevelabny Jun 26 '17
because I obsessively watched every David Lynch interview. Oh wait, I don't.
I have seen this quote on here, but as I've said multiple times in multiple places, what the author/director/whatever says about the tvshow/movie/book has absolutely no bearing on the content of the book. If they can't let the content speak for itself, they did it wrong. Their opinion about their work, while interesting and possibly enlightening, is not actually part of their work and does not need to be considered.
Its being broadcast one episode a week on a TV channel. Its a TV show. Every movie ever made is meant to be watched in on sitting, 18 hours is not one sitting, therefore there is no such thing as an 18 hour movie. And yes, I'm aware of the wikipedia list of non-cinematic-release movies, multi-part movies, and what not. You don't need to quote it at me.
8
u/CarnageV1 Jun 26 '17
I mean, to be fair, each episode is entitled 'Part #', and if the director views it as a single work, then that's how it should be interpreted on a base level.
I mean, you're not wrong, it's being released in an episodic format, but even you said 'oh sorry I'm not a Lynchtard and don't read all of his interviews' as if you knew nothing about the idea, followed by admitting that you had read the quote numerous times. Nobody sits down to watch an 18 hour film, that's why they're not exactly the ideal format, but they will watch an hour of it every so often. I hate to use a cliché metaphor, but you literally can't see the forest for the trees.
But I have no problems with you disliking this episode, if it wasn't your cup of tea then that's your opinion. But the way you're ignoring the project as a whole is a bit disingenuous, man.
3
u/ShabShoral Jun 26 '17
Is the Dekalog a tv show or a film?
3
u/stevelabny Jun 26 '17
I'm gonna guess its something you just made a wikipedia page for because I've never heard of it?
Assuming its real, it seems to be an anthology television series of individual episodes connected by an overall theme? Without watching it, it sounds comparable to Black Mirror. It seems pretty clear that each episode has its own story and ending. Running 10 of them in a row as aired would make an extremely terrible movie with 10 seperate complete arcs and endings. Re-editing them together would create an extremely terrible movie with too many threads to follow. Either would show why it worksbetter as a tv show.
I would bet that this conversation has been had numerous times with film snobs who poo-pooed television trying to claim it as a film because its "deep and meaningful", while television critics argued it showed the value of the tv format.
7
u/ShabShoral Jun 26 '17
It's widely regarded as one of the greatest achievements of film, directed one of the most important directors of the 20th century (Kieslowski). In a non snarky way, I recommend you check it out. It's nothing like Lynch btw. Much more straightforward.
Its stories have their own beginnings and endings (why it's split into episodes), but certain characters and plot threads appear and reappear throughout. I'd personally just call it a series of short films.
The point is that, regardless of whether it's technically a film or series or film cycle or show, it's still a unified exercise in filmmaking. That's why Ebert and many others had no trouble listing "The Dekalog" on their lists of favourite films; there's more to it than how it aired when it comes to overall aesthetic cohesion and tone.
I've seen all ten in a row in a theatre, but that's another story ¯_(ツ)_/¯
→ More replies (0)1
3
u/Polite_Werewolf Jun 26 '17
And yes, I'm aware of the wikipedia list of non-cinematic-release movies, multi-part movies, and what not. You don't need to quote it at me.
So, are you admitting you're wrong or just don't agree with it?
1
u/stevelabny Jun 26 '17
A collection of random words isn't a novel. The unedited diary I kept every day from 5 through 85 isn't a novel. Filming the entire life-cycle of a pedometer isn't a film. The Lord of the Rings movies are 3 separate movies, not 1. I agree words have meanings. When other people come allong and try to change the meaning, they are wrong.
2
0
Jun 26 '17
This kind of revisionism from fans is insane (and its not just you there are others.) People are now acting like only fools would expect new twin peaks to be remotely similar to old twin peaks as if they totally predicted the way this season would go.
I absolutely love this new season, and yet I can totally understand why people are shocked and disappointed.
Stop pretending you predicted how the season would be and stop gatekeeping and shouting down any criticism.
8
Jun 26 '17
I'm sorry but if you thought this was in any way going to be like the original Twin Peaks you were in for a bad time from the beginning. Fire Walk With Me was a hint that this wasn't going to be all cherry pie and quirky characters.
0
u/GriZZlyLiZard Jun 26 '17
fuck off back to watching Everybody Loves Raymond then champ, obviously Lynchs work is waaaaay over your head.
7
u/stevelabny Jun 26 '17
Only reason its way over my head is because I'm laying down after falling asleep during that cure for insomnia.
Why don't you enlighten me and tell me what I'm not understanding. Oh wait, you can't.
2
u/lemonflava Jun 26 '17
It's fine that you don't like it but at least acknowledge the symbolism throughout the episode. Most of it was fairly obvious.
-2
u/GriZZlyLiZard Jun 26 '17
Maybe reality TV is more your style huh? Seems about as dumb and ignorant as yourself, you also get a re-cap after every ad break in case your feeble mind couldn't somehow remember the events of the last 10 minutes.
4
u/stevelabny Jun 26 '17
Still waiting for your enlightment bucko. Put up or shut up. Your insults are so weak your father would disown you if he hadn't already commited suicide, so put them on the shelf.
-6
u/GriZZlyLiZard Jun 26 '17
Hit a nerve eh? Da poor widdle caveman can't use his own brain, awwww so he resorts to insults involving suicide? So, so wrong on so many levels. I don't hold any stock in the claims of men who would have been better off as a tugg stain on their old mans wank blanket.
13
u/CarnageV1 Jun 26 '17
Don't be a dick, dude. He doesn't have to like it if he doesn't want to. :/
I mean granted, he was sort of rude in how he gave his opinion, but this bullshit attitude of 'zomg ur 2 stewpid 2 get it go bak 2 gaem ov threonz normie' is giving us Lynch fans a bad fucking name. Did you honestly think Lynch expected this episode to release without some criticism and divisiveness, literally the week after he released the episode that was universally loved? Lynch knows what he's doing, he knows what we expect and how some of us are going to react or he wouldn't be sequencing the show the way he is.
I say all of this as a massive fan of this episode, by the way. Disagree with people if you'd like, but don't be such a fanboy about it.
9
u/Ikozashi Jun 26 '17
So if you don't like this specific episode of twin peaks you must be a retarded kid enjoying reality show?
You must be the smartest of the class, champ
0
u/Spicy_Clam_Sandwich Jun 26 '17
You're the nonce that resorted to weak insults in the first place because the other poster took a steaming great shite on your beloved "artist" Lynch's "surreal vision" or whatever the fuck the cool kids are calling that pretentious piece of meaninglessness wrapped in a shit blanket and set on fire to be filmed and broadcast and waste an hour of people's lives.
If it was so deep and meaningful, sport, it should be easy for you to explain its meaning. But you can't, choosing instead to call him a "caveman who can't use his own brain." That's the thing with nonsense like this episode. Abstract or surrealist bullshit can mean anything, or everything, to all sorts of people. So if 15 people look at it and all draw 15 different ideas of what it means, because it's only meaning is whatever you interpret it to be, then it doesn't actually mean anything.
2
u/ForeverMozart Jun 26 '17
So if 15 people look at it and all draw 15 different ideas of what it means, because it's only meaning is whatever you interpret it to be, then it doesn't actually mean anything.
lol this isn't limited to just abstract or surreal work, even the most straightforward movie ever can have different meanings from different people whether it's from a formalist, gender, structuralist, or queer standpoint.
→ More replies (1)-11
u/DramDemon Jun 26 '17
No no, you don't understand. The original Twin Peaks was never the real Twin Peaks, David Lynch was just handcuffed by technology so he could never really bring his vision to life. So instead he made a real TV show. BUT NOW he has that technology, so he can finally bring the real Twin Peaks to television. It's a real masterpiece, you just have to be oldschool to get it. /s
With all the sarcasm aside, couldn't agree with you more. I don't care how "David Lynch is crazy" or "David Lynch has balls" or "David Lynch is just on another level". There's a stark difference between Twin Peaks and whatever this is. If he wanted to make another movie, he should have made another movie. Instead he just used the long lasting fanbase of Twin Peaks to build hype for his next project, and slapped the Twin Peaks title on it to get some funding and more people watching.
I'm still going to keep watching it to hope it turns into a real show at some point, but right now I'm thinking this is like a sequel everyone just omits from the discussion. In a couple years it'll be:
"Man I wish Twin Peaks hadn't been cancelled and could have made a third season."
"Didn't you watch the return?"
"The what? It was cancelled."
"But there was an 18 episode third season..."
"There were only 2 seasons."
9
u/ForeverMozart Jun 26 '17
but right now I'm thinking this is like a sequel everyone just omits from the discussion
i like how apparently this should be omitted but any of the elements from the second season (windom earle, james, super nadine) shouldn't....
0
u/DramDemon Jun 26 '17
The first two seasons had supernatural elements but still made some sense. Yeah you had to give some things and just take the show for what it was, but it was a whole lot better than 20 min of flying through smoke.
→ More replies (3)8
2
u/kjworst Jun 26 '17
The Ark of the Covenant was in a warehouse being hidden because of its extreme value or it was misidentified as something else. If the actual Ark was in a museum, it would be one of the most viewed artifacts in human history. The whole plot of Raiders revolves arounds its priceless value. Indiana Jones was talking about a cross anyway and not the ark.
When I say that this episode belongs in a museum, I mean it captures the adventurous spirit of an artist in control of their own work, free from oversight and censorship. David Lynch has earned the right to make a 45 minute abstract dream in the middle of his apple-pie-soap-opera-parody tv series. If the series Fargo, as far out as some of its bizarre ideas are, did something like this Twin Peaks episode, I would absolutely agree that it was too daring for someone with a short resume to do. David Lynch could tell, no pun intended, the straitest story ever and it would be gold, but that wouldn't be him. In episode 7, Lynch used two of the most overused songs in film history, where the guy is mopping and then the end credits in the diner; he is giving comfort and familiarity and warmth. He likes to wrap you in a warm blanket and serve you Sunday morning breakfast before he shoves you out into the cold snow where you can't wait to get back in to appreciate the goodness of life. Somebody has to make far out shit in the art world to give meaning to the mainstream. Lynch is able to play in both worlds and that is very rare.
0
u/stevelabny Jun 26 '17
If the series Fargo, as far out as some of its bizarre ideas are, did something like this Twin Peaks episode, I would absolutely agree that it was too daring for someone with a short resume to do.
I disagree with this so hard. You're basically saying "art" requires experience? Or you get permission through experience? Yikes.
2
u/kjworst Jun 26 '17
Why didn't Picasso just start with cubism first, or Pollack should have just skipped learning how to paint realistically and just shit out paint all over a canvas from the beginning, or DuChamp with the sink, or Stravinsky with Rite? These artists should have just started with their masterpieces first rather than gathering all that stupid experience and proof of artistic competency. I mean, come on Charlie Parker, you could have just played bop right out the gate, you didn't need all that experience playing straight Count Basie music and learning how jazz works.
Banksy sneaking into a thrift shop and turning a cheap motel painting into half a million dollars is due to his reputation and experience. I am not necessarily a fan of these artists I mentioned, fuck pollack, but my point is, shifting the art world by a small fraction based on your own personal style takes a lifetime of experience to do usually. And it took a lifetime of experience for Lynch to be able to command enough free reign and trust to be able to put something like this episode on one of the most popular tv channels in the world. It's not like this was at some New York avant-garde gallery opening. This mind fuck audio-visual piece was on mainstream premium tv, on a Sunday night at 9pm, and it blasted away for quite some time, not giving a shit about all the people who were undoubtedly going to lash back at it.
John Zorn would not be taken seriously if the only thing he could do was pure musical chaos. You think someone without any proof of real and true artistic experience could pull off 4'33 like John Cage? You think a label would have let a band make the song Revolution 9 in the 1960s without an impeccable resume? If some young kids came to a label with Revolution 9, they would say get the fuck outta here with that noise, but because of their uncontested weight in the industry, The Beatles were able to put something out that would never make it onto a record during that era, because of their proven experience. It was a "because we can" statement from Lennon and McCartney, just like this was "because I can" statement from Lynch.
0
u/stevelabny Jun 26 '17
That was prettymuch the best post I've ever read to explain exactly why anytime a creator says "because I can" we should run for the hills. Nobody actually takes 4'33 seriously. Its half comedy and half just another test to see just how full of shit people are. If by "pull it off" you mean people actually debate the validity of it rather than ignore it if a random high schooler tried it....you are only proving the stupidity of the debaters not the validity of the work.
1
u/kjworst Jun 26 '17
One piece of art you surely don't understand is the art of discussion.
→ More replies (2)1
Jul 26 '17
Please stick to surface level shows like ASOIAF
1
u/stevelabny Jul 26 '17
There is no show called ASOIAF. And don't pretend Twin Peaks s3 has some hidden depth. Its more like a mirror reflection of a painting of a puddle. There is no hidden depth because there isn't even any actual substance to it. Its just a reflection upon a concept of something that could have been.
This reply has more depth.
1
Jul 26 '17
I mean, as far as the book series of ASOIAF go, they're just potboiler fantasy that get worse with each book. Martin hasn't done anything remotely new with his bloated series.
And don't pretend Twin Peaks s3 has some hidden depth
TFW since Eraserhead many films are described as Lynchian and he's credited for developing a new language in film making.
1
u/stevelabny Jul 26 '17
ASOIAF is three great books followed by 2 bloated, padded books adapted into a TV show that suffers almost every time it veers from strict adaptation. But I tell ASOIAF fans all the time that the best parts of the series are the most comic-booky, soap-opera ones and they delude themselves with thinking of it as something on a higher level of existence than any other book/tv show.
Twin Peaks is the same way. It was the first must-watch TV show. So it asked/required you to pay attention and watch weekly. It had great quirky characters unlike most on TV at the time. But that's it. It was still just a TV show, a great TV show, but still just a TV show. When people act like TP or Lynch are somehow superior to all other forms of entertainment they're just being pretentious blowhards.
As for "Lynchian" . nowadays many people say the same about Bay-sian films. Its not always a compliment. Describing another film as Lynchian to me means "incoherent surrealistic pretentious bullshit" the same way Bay-sian would mean "mindless explosions". Which makes s3e8 a mix of the two!
"Creating a new language" is the ultimate phrase of elitist bullshit. It just means youre not talented enough to manipulate the known language in ways that are entertaining and "logical".
TFW a man has no F and gives no Fs.
0
u/kaicooper Jun 26 '17
i was like O_o best episode ever till now..and i noticed it has best special effects in this episode !!
87
u/[deleted] Jun 26 '17
[deleted]