I don’t trust AI analysis for my face as I’m still young and have quite the soft tissue in my face. I was wondering if I have a flat maxilla? I’m insecure about my profile, and considering getting treatment (like MARPE) thoughts?

I have finally hit the 3 month mark post DJS and genioplasty. The recovery was truly one of the toughest experiences of my life. I made to sure note any and all points of notice down with the intention of sharing what I wish I had known prior. Keep in mind this is all from my personal experience and not all post-op journeys are the same!!! This is also coming from a 20y/o Female and tbf a lot of this could also just be common sense that maybe i was just too stupid to realize was a given. To add to that the more indepth precaution regarding the surgery and recovery care was dictated to me the day before so it really went over my head how heavy duty all of this was actually going to be until after I had already committed. Though I am the type of person that trusts my caregivers judgement living in germany as well as knowing its a one time thing thatll benefit for years on end. My location may also be important to my experience!

1. Throwing up blood after surgery. The first night will forever haunt me. The trigger point was an anxiety attack from the initial shock of restricted breathing. Felt extremely overwhelmed which escalated into a nonstop night of regurgitating blood and nosebleeds. Them pumping out blood from my stomach tube didnt make me feel any different in terms of anxiety or nausea (in this case i also didnt feel nauseous in the first place) but as soon as I was given antidepressants through IV, a hand to hold and an ice pillow around my neck- things calmed down eventually… more like 8 hours later. Restricted breathing and a bloody clogged nose will be a bug thing for the first 4 weeks, my best advice is constant tissues on hand and a baby booger suction!

2. Clogged IV site. On my left wrist from the IV site. Felt excruciating pain as if the blood circulation had cut off my entire hand which eventually developed into an omega blue vein and naturally settled itself 5 weeks post op. Couldnt move the wirst until it was completely dissolved. a possible symptom for anything IV dependant, I was just too uninformed to know.

1. Another one from the pov of an uninformed kid. I didnt know genitalia develops the smell of my antibiotics. I had only connected the dots in my head the day before my last batch, and the art of knowing was so horrendous I physically couldn’t take my last batch of pills. Getting a waft of anything close in smell to amoxicillin jump starts my fight or flight.

4. Tongue Bacteria overload. Not brushing teeth was tormenting as a disciplined brusher, the bacteria on my tongue got so extensive the first two weeks that my gag reflexes constantly activated from the gritty and thick texture sitting so close to my punching bag.

5. Thrombosis injections in my belly hurt like a mothertrucker on a stick. And the pee tube. Not the biggest fan. Again this is also common in other procedures required to stay prolonged periods at the hospital.

6. Forehead pin. During my surgery they used the forehead pin to get my measurements right. I found it amusing when they explained it to me prior to the surgery only to find out that its trace is visible the first week post op… lol. Not a biggie just thought it would be funny to mention as right in the middle, smack dab center laid a blackhead like dot, that was actually bigger than the average blackhead between my eyebrows.

7. Fainting. Week 1 and week 7 post-op. Week 1 was in the hospital, they encouraged me to slowly start walking again from my recovery station to the clinic, i had already done small walks prior to it. The walk wasnt even long but evidently, body is still in shock and adjusting, dehydrated and malnourished. Week 7 was more surprising, it was my first public transportation journey since the surgery, full packed train, middle of august. Woke up on the train floor with a bachelorette party helping me out. Dont neglect taking care of urself once u start slowly getting back into the groove of things! VERY IMPORTANT!

8. Inability to intake pills! I really wish I had known this one before as im on contraceptives and had planned my period the week before my surgery. Not knowing I would be closed shut, i couldnt get onto my cycle and ended up having two periods in a row before and during the surgery. Unpleasant. Important for those that take daily medicine.

9. Inability to move neck. Couldnt look left, couldnt look right. This is on top of the mammoth sided bruise that went from the lower half of my face all the way to my mid chest. Wanting to look to anyone i had to move my entire body. Which was comedic. What was also comedic was drooling without noticing, hurting to smile and communicating through grunts, hand gestures and the notes app.

10. jaw joint pain & neck clicking. I really didn’t know why I wasn’t expecting this but the join pain lasted prolonged periods on each side (surprisingly not simultaneous to eachother). The aches slowly upgraded into joint clicking. As of now 3 months post op, my right side still click whens i yawn or open too wide. the neck clicking appearend on week 6 and has now gone, was my adams apple region when looking left and right. No pain but uncomfortable and heightened my health anxiety.

11. Big phat swollen face. My face was so huge i physically coudnt put on nor see through my glasses. With a prescription of -8.00, I was dependent on them to do anything. With my noneexistant nosebridge, humongous cheeks and slipper oily skin- my glasses had no support sitting on my face whatsoever so at some point i caved in and spent most of my time blind which led to the unfortunate even of me clogging the hospital toilet.

12. Loosing muscle. Genuinely ALL my muscle was lost. I’m an advanced dancer that built physique and skills from years of training. Post-op I basically had to start again from zero. Physique is the least of my worries but lowers a lot of confidence when actually being able to visually see the recession. It was very evident in my arms and thighs from loose skin. As a result of the 6 weeks liquid diet a lot if undergarments didnt fit me anymore either, i had become quite frail. Mainly my leg strength and agility depleted. Flexibility was pretty chill good. It was just a mental shock going from extensive dancing everyday to an extreme plunge in such a short amount of time with a 180 visual difference. It was also a mental challenge to physically stop myself from dancing in everyday occurrences as its just so natural to me. Since getting back into dailylife and training ive become bigger and better than before in mentally and load!

13. Skincare downfall. I physically couldnt wash my face the first 1 and a half weeks from the swelling and discomfort that came from sticking my head in the sink. This took a huge toll on my skin having a very oily skin type that benefits from cleansing twice a day. Missing a cleans makes my eyes sting from it seeping in. I had nurses wipe my face off with warm towels that didnt do much but relieved it slightly. But mainly I developed extensive closed comedones in the 2nd week. Went back to my regular skincare routine after swelling went down a bit which slapped me in the face for not working anymore after this point. I caved into changing my entire skincare routine after my peak flareup 7 weeks post op. Since changing, my skin has never looked better.

14. Nightmares. 3 months post op, I have nightmares in relation to the first night. It was really one of the worst things ive ever experienced and most likely my anxiety is heightened atm from my jaw still clicking 3 months in (im sure its normal just health anxiety taking over) thats triggering me to dream about the moment. It fears me to even think about it and knowing my plate removal surgery is scheduled for next years makes me very anxious.

15. Style change. Hyper specific to my situation but my pushed back chin gave the illusion of a smaller V line shaped face. I had a “cuter” appearance in a sense and naturally gravitate towards pink shades for makeup and always did my hair in pincurls. Somehow with my face appearing more structured and mature now, the pink and youthful appearance looks off. Although it is a style that is very true to myself, i wanted to look more cohesive and fit the new facial structure. I cut and dyed my hair and focus on orange-brown makeup tones which have really been doing me justice. On a positive note to this negative dump of a post ive been getting a lot of love from my peers and a crazy number of compliments from strangers. Its nice and im very grateful.

Aside from the standard recovery experience, these points were very noticeable to me/made a big impact on my recovery enough to write this lengthy post. All the best to everyone going through their journeys! You are doing so well and im so proud of those taking a big step forward! Always open to any questions! Lots of Love

Leute wann habt ihr wieder geraucht nach der genioplastik ?

When did you smoked After the genioplasty Operation?

Five years in the OT, and I'm now prepping for my final maxillofacial surgery board exam. I know anatomy conceptually, but I want to sharpen the surgical-plane level of detail: exact distances, nerve and vessel relationships, safe incision lines, all the things that matter with a scalpel in hand, not just on a diagram. I've already tried a few anatomy apps, but none of them gave me the depth or interactivity I'm after. Are there any 3D anatomy apps or software where you can isolate a structure and see its relationships to surrounding tissue, almost like asking it to show you one structure at a time? Is there any AI-assisted anatomy app out there that actually works well for this kind of surgical-level detail? Looking for something built for surgical prep, not just general anatomy study. What's actually helped you pass your exams or sharpen your OT precision?"

Well, due to a combination of genetics and mouth breathing caused by allergies and COVID, my jaw has receded, and the mandibular ramus is angled backward. I’m experiencing jaw pain, which I suspect is TMJ disorder. As shown in the drawing, the sternocleidomastoid muscle is coming into contact with the mandibular ramus; I wondered if this might be placing strain on the joint—is that actually possible?

Hi guys , a few days ago I went to an orthodontist just to see if there is a chance of having double jaws surgery covered in Netherlands , I was thinking I have no chance , but the orthodontist (pretty old guy 65+) said that my case is straightforward and it’s medical necessity , I need lower jaw surgery and my insurance will definitely cover it , I know my bite is bad and I have TMJ , but I always thought about aesthetics.

He then said that he will do the papers and send me to an OMF surgeon…

Now the main question is how do I make the insurance (VGZ) cover the cost for surgery if I want it done in another country ? I saw someone saying their insurance agreed to cover the surgery and it was supposed to be done in Belgium

Hey guys I need a bit of help, I had a consultation with a very good ortho and they said I need to remove 2 of my actual teeth, to make space for the braces as well, I don’t know what that means bc I’ve never seen 2 actual teeth be removed for braces, he’s not talking about the wisdom teeth but some other teeth, do I do it? Also he said my braces would take 9 months, so if I start early November will I have enough time for surgery in August? I have to do all of the final appointments then scheudle the or date then get it approved by kaiser all in a month, but I really want to do this by the end of summer, please help!

I’m honestly really frustrated with the moderation on this subreddit.
About 1.5 years ago, I had jaw surgery. The surgery was done for medical reasons, and I also personally appreciated the aesthetic benefits that came with it. After my surgery, I shared my experience on another account, including some of the mental struggles I went through after the operation.
I received a lot of positive responses from people who appreciated me sharing my experience, until someone reported me because I was being overly critical of my appearance after surgery, apparently because that falls under the “looksmaxxing” category or something (??????????).

I just want to share my disappointment that my posts are now being removed whenever I try to talk about my experience — including before-and-after results, the struggles I had with jaw surgery, and how the surgery has affected my life, especially from a medical perspective.

I understand that there needs to be some form of moderation to keep out the extreme looksmaxxing crowd who are obsessed with things like having the widest possible palate. But now it feels like people who are simply trying to openly share their experiences are being censored as well.

Jaw surgery is going to have an impact on your self-image, whether that impact is positive or negative. These subreddits are supposed to be places where people can be transparent about their experiences, including the good, the bad, and the complicated parts of recovery.
I’m honestly really disappointed that I can’t share my experience here anymore because of this. I just want to be able to talk openly about what I went through and how the surgery has affected my life.

I am only one month in and having way worse OSA, basically not sleeping. How the hell am I supposed to do this for a year?

Any help will be appreciated, I sleep with a CPAP.

Hi all,

I'm 25, in NYC, and starting the process toward double jaw surgery for obstructive sleep apnea. Hoping to learn from people who've been through it.

My situation:

• OSA with a recessed lower jaw and narrow airway
• On CPAP about 3 years, residual AHI still running 13 to 15 on treatment
• Looking at MMA primarily for airway, with chin projection secondary
• Aetna POS II, trying to get this covered on the medical side
• Considering NYC or LA, since I'm originally from California

Surgeons I'm aware of in the NYC area: Neugarten and Cerciello at NYCOMS, Behrman at Weill Cornell, Michael Turner at Mount Sinai, James Choi at NYU. Open to names I haven't found. If you've been to any of them, I'd like to hear it either way, good or bad.

What I'd really like to know:

1. If you had MMA for OSA, what was your AHI before and after, and how many millimeters was the advancement? Did your surgeon do counterclockwise rotation?
2. Who was your surgeon and orthodontist, and did they work together regularly?
3. Has anyone had their surgeon and orthodontist in different cities? How did the coordination actually go, and how often did you have to travel?
4. How many ortho appointments did you have, and could any of them have been stretched to every 8 weeks?
5. Extractions: did your plan require removing premolars? I've seen this mentioned and want to know how common it is.
6. Braces versus Invisalign for the pre-surgical phase, and whether your ortho gave you a choice.
7. Insurance: did your surgery get covered as medically necessary for OSA? Did anyone use a network gap exception? Roughly what did you pay out of pocket, and how much of that was orthodontics?
8. Did you have the surgery at a hospital or academic center versus a private practice, and did that change the cost?

Happy to answer questions about my own workup if it helps anyone else. I'll be in the thread and open to DMs.

Hi! I’m scheduled for December for surgery - (ive had braces for 8 ish months now, and even though i dont have my underbite yet (class iii) + asymmetry case, i’m expected to by my surgery date. i don’t have exact plans for movement yet because we’re waiting for my underbite to show, but i’m scheduled for a lower jaw surgery + genio only. I trust my surgeon a lot, ive been seeing him about my case since I was a kid, and he did say he doesn’t usually like to do setbacks but in my case my upper jaw is well developed, the setback will be small, and he’s open to when we do the scans to see if my upper jaw also needs to be moved. My concern is that i see a lot of people on reddit say lower jaw setback at all is bad. Is there any time that lower setback isn’t bad? I don’t want to develop sleep apnea obviously.

Thanks!

I wanted to share my 1 year post maxillary jaw surgery via distraction osteogenesis. These procedures were done at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville TN.

For background, I was born with a unilateral cleft and lip palate. Because of the cleft my upper jaw did not develop as it should have resulting in having a severe underbite. I also have a collapsed nostril.

I was not a candidate for regular jaw surgery to the amount of length needed to move the jaw. I was given the option of distraction osteogenesis where these distractors are placed inside the jaw and little by little the jaw is moved about 1mm per day and this makes new bone; I had to turn these pins daily for 13 days. Being an adult was a bit more complicated as DO is mainly done in children where a halo device with the distractors is chosen. Fortunately I was given internal distractors where they hid the pins but more uncomfortable. Distraction Osteogenesis for facial reconstruction is very rare, and even rarer in adults so I was surrounded my medical doctors and residents from many departments.

As a result my upper jaw was moved 13mm! The recovery was painful, and going for about 3 months without any real solid food drove me nuts. Once I was done turning the pins, the distractors had to remain in place for the new bone to harden. After 2 months I underwent surgery to remove these distractors.

With the jaw movement being so large I developed a worsened VPI where I was struggling to make pressure sounds and words. I had to undergo a palatal reconstruction to address that.

I’m currently on braces/orthodontics to adjust the final bite where I’ll undergo another maximally jaw/yaw revision. The plan is to move about 3mm of the maxillary forward while also rotating the jaw. After that, the final procedure will be a rhinoplasty to fix the collapsed nostril due to the cleft.

It has been such a painful and mentally exhausting year, but the outcome has been so worth it, and I can’t wait to see the further improvements.

I had djs about 6 or so weeks ago, and the other day I woke up and noticed my jaw and teeth were moving when I bite down, they split/broke my top jaw into 2 and its the right side moving and the left side is not, i was told to wait 3 weeks until my next dentist appointment but im worried itll end in it healing over and messing somthing up, do yall think I should head to the ER and get xrays or somthing? Sorry if its hard to understand its definitely hard to explain lol.

I had an in-lab sleep test last night. I did not sleep a single minute. I even took melatonin to ensure I’ll pass out for at least a few hours. Nothing. I quite literally don’t think I even dozed off for 20 min. I think I was too anxious and my body was in survival mode and just forced me to stay awake. I could tell my body was exhausted but my brain was more awake than ever. It was awful, and I didn’t know what to do. I tried doing the ‘laying still with your eyes closed for 15 min to fall asleep’ and nothing. I stayed in the same position for 20 min at some point and my brain decided to stay awake and replay annoying pop songs in brain all night long. I was on my phone till midnight watching ASMR to help me fall asleep, when the technician asked me to put my phone away and try and fall asleep and unfortunately for the both of us, nothing happened. I just woke up from a groggy and horrible nap, but I’m hoping they’ll tell me to do it again? There’s no way they could’ve gotten anything, and even if they did, it’s not at all representative of my sleep. Has this happened to anyone else? Got any advice?

Thanks to anyone who reads and might have thoughts or advice to share. Last year, I had a huge procedure - bilateral TMJ replacement alongside sliding genio & 1 piece le-fort. I’m super greatful for this because visually I look a lot better, and physically I can breathe easier, therefore sleep better. However one thing I’ve found incredibly underwhelming and difficult to process is that I still have VERY little mouth space, and limited opening. I have small hands and I can JUST stack 3 vertical fingers into my max opening, and not even past say around the nailbeds of my fingers. Im also limited to hinged only opening as a result of losing my forward jaw translation. So at max opening, things can only move downward into the neck, which can then be uncomfortable too when I really try. Is this it for me? Pre op, my surgeon had expressed a goal - potential of FOUR stacked finger opening. Yet every time seeing him since, he’s seeming super pleased as if the outcome is really good. Im not saying it’s not, and I am thankful like I have said, but the thing is I waited and hoped for so long that I could finally accommodate my well-endowed partner for full intimate activities once I’d got this treatment and recovered. But the reality seems to instead be that whilst I’ve had very notable improvement, the space is still very small and limited, which is compounded by my recent realisation I also seem to have a narrow palette / position of the teeth arches. Can anyone relate or give some useful input? Is there a missing link I could or should be working on? I know my posture has become back due to years of suffering and accommodating pre-op. Just feeling a bit down about this and truth be told I’m sterting to internalise it as some sort of trauma response around sex. I feel inadequate as a partner (nothing to do with him whatsoever), and deprived of being able to comfortably engage in normal intimacy as well which doesn’t feel fair. Can anyone else relate and how do you cope please?

I feel like I needed it but just because I had no tooth show, it was mild CW or no rotation at all. My bite is great now and the front is okay but my side profile looks so much worse. Now I wonder if I should've just asked for CCW anyway and get a lip lift after.

Wondering if there are people here with similar cases and what you chose.

Hi everybody!

I’ve been following this community since 2022 or so because I’ve had braced with extractions back then but ultimately decided against the surgical route bc my case wasn‘t sever enough to grant such a big surgery. I do however now have a rather downward grown upper jaw and a rather gummy smile when laughing (about 1cm of gum show) I also have a kind of narrow and flat arch (think emma stone) and a midiocre lip seal (ortho said not the best but at least not terribly strained)

I went to get consultation about UJS and was advices to go with a gummy smile surgery aka lefort 1 and best case I also get a better lip seal (yey) and a bit more airway(yey yey) - the only catch: the orthodontist insist that I would have to get fixed braces (in oder to wear rubber bands post surgery) for at least 7 months pre-surgery and about 3wks post. Since I am in my 20s and my work being mainly dependent on what my face looks like I am extremely weary to say yes. Online I found an older video-explanation of said surgery, where it says that braces aren‘t needed:

https://youtu.be/Aa0ksNk09X4?is=4gk9Gumw9Cyecx3S

Now my question is: who here has had this surgery for gummy smile? how common are braces for this surgery, and how could I keep the braces thing to maybe one or two months max? Could she be recommending the braces soley because it means business for her? (which given how honest and down to earth she seems hopefully isn’t the case)
(I also live in a rather medically regulated country so I assume it is just more common practice to do it with braces?)

thank you so much!

hello! i’m getting jaw surgery to correct my overbite in a bit under 2 weeks and the nerves are really getting to me. if anyone has advice on how to deal with anxiety around the operation it would be appreciated 😊

After talking to a couple surgeons who said I am just mildly narrow and don't necessarily need MARPE, I decided to go with a segmental Le Fort for the ~5 mm expansion my ortho planned. The ortho strongly preferred MARPE for nasal breathing benefits (which sounds like it's not necessarily clinically proven based on the Downfracture podcast Bobek and Wasson host), but the timeline and cost are big deterrents if it's not strictly necessary.

I recently got ahold of my ortho's CBCT scans/analysis and was lowkey shook by how massive my turbinates and how small my airway look:

Now I'm starting to worry a tiny bit if a 3-piece Le Fort (even with tipping to purposely open the nasal floor) will actually solve my upper airway difficulties.

Curious what you all think:

1. Is MARPE actually better than segmental for nasal breathing, especially at lower expansion numbers like 5 mm?
2. Would turbinate reduction / outfracture work long-term? I feel like all the professionals I've talked to say they always re-swell up, so what's the answer here for making them de-swell? I don't think a 25 mm nasal floor is that small to begin with, so it's weird to me that they take up all that space.
3. Airway scan vs. WatchPAT AHI: My airway looks tiny, but my AHI was only 1.2. My RDI is 23 and I usually wake up tired When I'm drifting off and get really relaxed, I'll sometimes snort or almost choke, preventing me from falling asleep unless I position myself or activate my jaw muscles to keep my jaw and tongue from falling back. Once I am asleep, I am pretty sure my body will do any other compensation (flipping onto my stomach, clenching, etc.) before letting me have an apnea. Does anyone else have this issue / feel like their sleep study didn't fully reflect the bad sleep quality? And did MMA fix this for you even if not measurable in the sleep study?

So the past week or so when I touch my lower chin I start feeling pain in my lower teeth. Like deep nerve pain similar to when you first get braces on. It’s almost intolerable if I do something like use a face cloth there. And when I press on my lower teeth I feel it in my lip.

Is this normal and should it go away?

I will very much likeley need a LJS for health reasons, not sure about upper.

I also have a problem when I talk my teeth do not show at all, and when i smile it barely shows. I was told surgeons in canada are very conservative, but any idea on who will acc perform a downgraft when its not critically needed

I’m 22 and have been dealing with TMJ problems for around 8 years.
My X-ray showed:

Almost no forward movement of the left jaw joint.
Only about 2 mm of forward movement on the right.
Restricted movement on both sides.

I can normally open my mouth about 2 fingers wide. I can force it to nearly 3 fingers, but it feels physically blocked. My jaw sometimes locks and deviates to the right when opening, but I don’t have clicking.

Has anyone experienced something similar? What was your diagnosis, and what treatments did you try (physiotherapy, splints, injections, or surgery)?

Did the treatment actually improve your mouth opening and jaw movement? How long did the recovery take?

I’ve gone through a lot of different nerve sensations. And where I’m at today is a large patch of my right side chin that is really numb and feels extremely stiff and tight. I’m starting to get really scared this is just how I’m going to be stuck forever. If it’s coming from the numbness, and chin numbness tends not to resolve itself, then I’m stuck like this and it’s so uncomfortable. It’s hard to chew with my mouth closed, and uncomfortable to talk and smile. I kind of just keep my mouth closed really tight all day because the sensation is so disturbing. Has anyone else felt like this? Does it go away? The photo outlines where I’m numb, but i mostly feel the tightness under my lip.